Wikipedia talk:Graphics Lab/Illustration workshop

Graphics Lab/Illustration workshop

The Graphics Lab is a project to improve the graphical content of the Wikimedia projects. Requests for image improvements can be added to the workshop pages: Illustrations, Photographs and Maps. For questions or suggestions one can use the talk pages: Talk:Graphics Lab, Talk:Illustrations, Talk:Photographs and Talk:Maps.
This specific page is the discussion page for the Illustration workshop. Any comments or questions about this specific workshop may be made here. Note that requests for image improvement, etc. do not belong here but should go on the main requests page

SVG mapmaking tutorial

(moved from Yug's talkpage)

Hello Yug! I opened your SVG tutorial (which is great by the way) and many embedded images were shifted down and mixed with the text. Can you check that out? I have the latest Inkscape version by the way (0.48.2.1). Cheers! -- Orionist ★ talk 03:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Your request is unclear. I found 2 possibilities:

• some exercices' answers are 'out of the page'.
• some editors notes are out of the page. I labelled them as such. These items are not important for the reader.

I fixed these issues in the new 02/29 version. If some images are still clearly bugging, then be more specific : which section ? which image ? or by a screenshot.

And thanks for the feedback ! :D Yug (talk) 10:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Only the first tool images look like they're in their place, all the other images and vector objects appear below their intended position. I included screenshots of some examples in this image. Are you using a nightly version of Inkscape with some new features not available in stable versions? I can't think of any other possible cause for this. Cheers! -- Orionist ★ talk 05:04, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Wow, quite strange. I guess it's a font size trouble. You don't have my font, so your computer use a different font, with different display size, creating the bug. Need other users feedbacks. Yug (talk) 15:20, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I've noticed this too. What typeface is it supposed to be in? Matthewedwards :  Chat  22:31, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedbacks. Will see this weekend. Cheers ! --Yug (talk) 11:41, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

It is probably because the font "Bitstream Vera Sans/Serif" is substituted to a different font, for example "Arial" in MS windows which is much smaller than Bitstream font. The text is within a rectangle forming a "Link Flowed Text" and graphic area is reserved by "CR/LF" characters. Then if a substituted font is smaller than Bitstream font, the graphic area become smaller and the position changes. A possible solution is to separate the graphics from the "Link Flowed Text". ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 22:36, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

By the way, "Link flow text" is not supported by MediaWiki. See Commons:Transition to SVG. Please see the rendered png image in File:Tutorial-cartography (basic).svg. (Click 500px of "This image rendered as PNG in other sizes:") No text is displayed in the png. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 07:54, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

To solve the font problem, maybe use a web-safe font (like Arial, Verdana, Times New Roman, Georgia.) Other point, the "Link flow text" is not supported by browsers either. So a possible solution is to de-link the text and have it in separate flowed boxes instead (which will appear as black boxes in Media Wiki, but will look okay in browser) -- Orionist ★ talk 08:36, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

@Pheonix, thanks for your input. The PNG/"Link Flowed Text" is bugging (MediaWiki/ImageMaggic bug), yes, and that's ok. I planned this as a "SVG-in-Inkscape TODO tutorial" from the start, The PNG preview is not my objective.

@Pheonix & Orionist: Edit 1, it is need to change to a web-safe font, I agree. This can be done quickly in a text editor. I can do it. Edit 2, I don't undertand your 『A possible solution is to separate the graphics from the "Link Flowed Text"』 and 『a solution is to de-link the text and have it in separate flowed boxes instead』. If you think it's safe for the file, may I request you to do this fix ? Yug (talk) 21:57, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Umh. Sémhur did something (that I don't understand) to the file, maybe it's it (de-link). May you check ? The text is now visible but bold texts are now buggy, and the texts will be harder to edit (no automatic line jump anymore). Yug (talk) 22:27, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

I think Sémhur did "Convert to Text" in Text menu. I am not sure web-safe fonts are applicable to MediaWiki renderer. "Sans" font is substituted to Bitstream/DejaVu font which is much larger than Arial font. Bitstream/DejaVu is almost identical to Verdana font. As for the solution, my suggestion is to split the graphics from the text box. Do not edit the graphics in a space reserved by CR/LF character. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 23:06, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi there! Yes, I converted all the flowroot tags to text. About the fonts, I use commonly Nimbus Sans L, DejaVu Sans Condensed (like Arial) or DejaVu Serif Condensed (like Times New Roman). The Condensed is especially important. I havn't finished to study your file yet, but you can find some things to correct in the W3C SVG validator. You can group the graphics with the corresponding text also, to avoid "floating" objects. Sémhur 09:54, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

FYI, in MediaWiki, "Arial" is substituted to "Liberation Sans". "DejaVu Sans Condensed" is a little bit smaller. Also "Times New Roman" is substituted to "Liberation Serif". "DejaVu Serif Condensed" is much larger than "Times New Roman". ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 11:16, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes I know that, but the rendering of the Liberation fonts is not very good on Commons, whereas DejaVu (Sans or Serif) Condensed, is better (although this is not a panacea). And even better with Nimbus Sans L (for Arial). Sémhur 18:36, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Recreation of non-free images as SVGs

There have been a lot of requests lately (there are five at the minute) which ask for vector versions of non-free images. As is mentioned in the requesting advice, we clearly can't hand-draw them, but I don't think it is clear whether it is our job as the editors to find PDFs or other vectors of these files, or whether it is down to the requester. Given that these types of request tend to sit around without being completed, I feel consensus is that the onus is on the requester, but if that is the case, it should be made clearer in the advice, and we should have a set response to these requests, so that we can clear them from the page more quickly. Thoughts? NikNaks _{talk - gallery} 12:48, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah. The onus must be on the requester to find a vector version. Most probably, the requester would be someone who is editing the relevant article and so would be in a better position than wikigraphists to find a suitable vector version. Although I think most requesters really don't understand the fact that hand-drawing non-free images would be a violation of copyright. Roshan220195 (talk) 05:20, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Yet another one. Roshan220195 (talk) 06:17, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

See Template talk:Should be SVG#Vector data. --Leyo 15:11, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

SVG Graphs

I am trying to change several raster graphs into vector versions. I know that I need to recreate it in a text editor. I've seen some graphs with colorful lines and pie graphs, but I've also seen some in grayscale. But are there any guidelines on graphs and how they should look like? Thanks. --Wylve (talk) 14:10, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I think you need inkscape, not a text editor. Yug (talk) 14:56, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

No, the problem with Inkscape, is that it generates ridiculously lengthy and messy code. With graphs, it would be best to use text editor, as the actual data can be converted to coordinates on the canvas. --Wylve (talk) 10:17, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

There are no guidelines that I know of. Personally I'd just make sure they look discernible when placed in the article, and maybe make a consistent style if they are in a series. As for working with Inkscape, you can get rid of most of the bloat by saving as "Optimized SVG". Then you can use an editor (I use Notepad++) to trim it even more (e.g. remove metadata, find/replace to remove any superfluous tags etc.) Cheers! -- Orionist ★ talk 20:42, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

You may save as "plain SVG", a French graphist said it's helpful to clean up the code. I never tested myself. Yug (talk) 13:44, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, guys! --Wylve (talk) 15:58, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Is there a nice starters guide for vectorizing? -DePiep (talk) 15:01, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

You might start with How to Draw a Diagram with Inkscape and follow the links from there … otherwise it’s a pretty broad topic, and dependent on the available software. Some programs have auto-tracing features, but the results almost always need some manual cleanup. Which is not to say that everyone takes the time! When it comes to graphs and source data are available, it’s often best to start with a charting program that can produce vector output (typically PostScript or PDF), then to finish with a drawing application.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 00:47, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

WP:CRIC/GR

We have a project creating batting graphs for cricketers, and was looking for a few volunteers who could upload the graphs. And if one of you guys could... extra999 (talk) 13:30, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Transparency with GIMP 2.6

How do I go about making the white background of an image transparent without any of the white within the main image almost being made transparent? Cloudbound (talk) 21:15, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

How many layers do you have? Is there anything against selecting the supposed-to-be-white area in the main image, and fill it with white? Jon C (talk) 14:47, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll give it a try. I'd like to make the background of File:First Choice logo.png transparent without losing the white within the logo. Cloudbound (talk) 19:31, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

This one is slightly tricky, because it seems that the white "within" the logo is directly connected to the outside. What I'd have done (in Photoshop) is to first select all the whites, then subtract the area within the logo, before filling in No Color. Alternatively, since you've already done up the fully transparent version, you could also paint in the whites -- on a lower layer, so no careful manipulation is necessary. Jon C (talk) 03:41, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

HDR photo improvement ?

HDR photo improvement looks frankly great. Does someone of the lab know how to do it ? Yug (talk) 19:22, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

High dynamic range imaging is a reasonably common photographic technique these days; all you need is a digital camera (even a point-and-shoot) with manual exposure and f-stop settings. There's plenty of good instructions out there. I personally use Luminance HDR - a free, open-source program - for my HDR shots.

That said, the example on that site is mildly confusing - HDR is not just post-processing. You cannot* usually take an existing single image and turn it HDR - you must start out with multiple existing images.

You can make lighter and darker copies of a single image and feed them into an HDR program. This generates an HDR-looking result, but at the expense of graininess and off-colored light areas. I've used it a handful of times to fix badly-exposed images on Commons. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:58, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I see, I was indeed confused believing it was processed from a single image. The site sometimes shows the HDR result having a clearly better pixel quality than the former image, I was wondering how they do that. Just by using multiple pictures as raw material. Ok. Following your comment, I also improved High_dynamic_range_imaging#Examples by separating the raw materials from the processed results. It's much clearer to understand now :) Yug (talk) 08:21, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Raw material

• 
  –8 stops
• 
  –2 stops
• 
  +2 stops
• 
  +4 stops

Results after processing

• 
  Simple contrast reduction
• 
  Local tone mapping

Thanks, that rearrangement definitely makes the article clearer. Cheers! Pi.1415926535 (talk) 17:07, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Upload an svg file with all layers?

Before I upload an svg file (usually from inkscape), I remove supporting settings (layers, guides, etc.). Is that good practice, or is it better to leave them in so the next editor can work with them? -DePiep (talk) 11:23, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

If the layers &c. are helpfully organized, I would say keep them; they can make future editing easier, and AFAICT don't carry a lot of “overhead”. Saving as a plain SVG, rather than in the Inkscape-native version, does trim a fair bit of stuff that’s less obviously useful, reducing the file size considerably.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 18:00, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Wrong pinout

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Rj25_connector.jpg

The read arrow on the following picture marks pin 6: http://www.mindstormsforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=7875 194.114.62.88 (talk) 10:02, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikigraphists-in-Training

Hi all,

A heads-up about an activity we started here at the College I teach at. A student and myself started a local work-group named "Wikigraphists". In these weekly sessions, we train students on Illustrator/Inkscape, with the expectation that they contribute to the enrichment of Wikicommons during these sessions (1--2 years). In the long run, I hope this would help build the critical mass of illustrators, which can in term help attract talent for the betterment of our open Commons.

To get them started, over the next weeks I may post some requests in Illustration Workshop that match their abilities (i.e., simple to start with). I hope this does not negatively impact the Illustration Workshop; the requests came from the backlog, and you're more than welcome to jump on any you'd like to fulfill.

Please let me know if you foresee concerns, and I will try to relay these to my fellow facilitator and participants.

Regards, Jon C (talk) 14:46, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

WMF grant request for Wikimaps system

Hello all, I just announced a grant request on the Map workshop talk page. Please take a look, and support us. We are competing with other great projects as well. Details and talks there : Wikimaps Atlas: generating thousands base maps. Yug (talk) 11:42, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

• 
  locator_map: USA_location_map + focus and red on Hawaii (2009 guidelines)
• 
  location_map (2009 guidelines)
• 
  relief_location_map
• 
  _(orthographic_projection).svg
• 
  _location_map.svg (2009 guidelines)
• 
  _locator_map.svg : India_location_map + focus and red on Maharashtra (2009 scheme)
• 
  _relief_location_map

Archiving

I'm wondering: why doesn't DyceBot archive a section marked as resolved five weeks ago, while it does archive a section marked as resolved yesterday? SiBr₄ ("CyberFour") (talk) 11:05, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

How to know if it's OK to make a derivate

This request The_Hughleys has been there for a while and I can do it but I don't know if it's OK. It feels as if it would be some kind of copyright on it, how do I check that? -Goran tek-en (talk) 21:17, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

This is just my personal opinion, but I tend to shy away from making derivatives of copyrighted and trademarked illustrations in general. Take for example the American Dad logo which also has recently been submitted for vectorisation. I wouldn't touch this at all. That's clearly copyrighted and there's absolutely no reason to vectorise it as it should only be displayed as a low-resolution image anyway per Wikipedia's own policy. However, "The Hughleys" is claimed to be simple enough to be copyright free. I'm by no means an expert in American copyright law, so before I would touch this one I would have to be absolutely positive that the public-domain claim is legitimate and correct. I, personally, am not positive. Is the "H" stylistic? Is the font customised? Is there enough artistic expression there to flip this into "copyrighted" status? Probably not, but I honestly do not know for certain. Niamh (talk) 06:14, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Goran tek-en, here are Threshold of originality and commons:COM:TOO for your benefit. --George Ho (talk) 06:19, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

George Ho, that is very helpful and informative. Thank you! By my reading of these, I would say that "The Hughleys" logo should be fine to vectorise. Niamh (talk) 06:28, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the input and now I also think this would be free as it's just text. But as mentioned why need a svg for that and there is no article to connect it to. Could it be someone who just wants a job done without having to pay or am I out of line then? --Goran tek-en (talk) 19:34, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

SVG is now in use, replacing GIF. SVG does better resolution than GIF, but modifications are still needed to resemble the actual logo. George Ho (talk) 19:45, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Not AGAIN!

Much like the last time, when someone tried to trace-SVGify the logo of AUstrialia, we have this: Image:Computer_Workstation_Variables_cleanup.png. Far from a cleanup, it looks identical to the original and is approximately twenty times the size of the original. 76.117.247.55 (talk) 20:12, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

SVG to PNG error

When I tried converting an SVG image from Inkscape, to a PNG on fileformat.info, it wouldn't convert. I don't know if it tells me if the SVG file itself is not fully vectored. Blurred Lines 19:25, 24 January 2014 (UTC)