Talk:Bitters

No angostura bark in Angostura brand Bitters

There is no angostura bark in Angostura Bitters:

• The label text in Spanish and English
• The bitter truth at drinkboy.com

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Smerdis of Tlön 17:06, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks those are good references - although other sources disagree [1], I'm inclined to believe the label.

However, I'm guessing the situation is more complex. Many sources make it clear that the name comes from the town, not the tree/shrub, but that doesn't mean it never contained the bark.

It is pretty clear from the corporate history [2], that Dr. Johann Siegert, Surgeon General to Simon Bolivar's army developed Angostura Bitters as a general medicinal tonic (which is how it was adopted by the British Navy).

Also Native Americans in the area had long used Angostura bark as a herbal medicine[3] in much the same way. It is also pretty clear that Siegert learnt of the bitters from the local Native Americans.

Given the label, it must be the case that the bottle doesn't contain bitters from the Angostura bark today. So either the original recipe included Angostura bark and there is a reason that that is a bad thing today (as per Coca-Cola and coca, or because the bark wasn't available following the move to Trinidad) so the recipe was changed. Or, there was a range of other natural bitters in the area and Siegert happened to choose one which was not Angostura bark and the company is keen to make this clear in order to keep their recipe secret. -- Solipsist 17:50, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I remember reading somewhere that Angostura bark is toxic. The original formula may have contained it, but they may have removed it after a health scare, or just because few people were using it as a medicine anymore. Smerdis of Tlön 19:29, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Siegert named Angostura Bitters after the town of Angostura (now Ciudad Bolívar) in Venezuela, where he was based. While it is possible that Siegert got the recipe from local Amerindians, there is no evidence of this one way or the other - certainly the family history does not credit any "external" sources for the formula (not that this makes it impossible, simply that it makes it unknowable to those of us who simply speculate).

Along those lines, I must take issue with the assertion that the flavour comes from gentian; this must be conjecture, since the ingredients are a closely guarded secret. Guettarda 22:20, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This site on ethnobotany lists gentian and orange as the chief bittering agent in Angostura. -- Smerdis of Tlön 02:13, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

And, the label says, "An aromatic preparation of water, alcohol, gentian and vegetable flavoring extractives and vegetable coloring matter." It seems safe to say that gentian is a major ingredient. -- Smerdis of Tlön 02:20, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Interesting - I never noticed that gentian was listed on the label...Somehow I always thought the ingredients were local (or at least "regional" - ie, Venezuelan). Speaking of which, I don't even own a bottle of the stuff right now - poor excuse for a Trini, I'd say. Guettarda 17:08, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well either way, the article contradicts itself on this matter. Either one or the other must be removed, and cited.Salvar (talk) 21:48, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

New page for Angostura Bitters

I've moved some material here that someone posted on the Angostura disambiguation page. However, that material, and some of the material already on Bitters, really belongs on a page specific to Angostura Bitters (the product). No such page seems to exist. Angostura Bitters redirects to Bitters (the general type of product of which Angostura Bitters is just one example), and the link to Angostura™ Bitters on [[Bitters], redirects to House of Angostura (the company that makes Angostura Bitters). I don't know how to create the new article and re-arrange the redirects, but it'd be nice if someone would.69.63.62.226 02:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

It seems some of this has been done, but i still think there is too much specific information on the page about angostura bitters and that it shoudl perhaps be moved to the new page. 82.6.79.160 15:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

sweedish bitters

There is no mention of sweedish bitters, a powerfull remedy used for centuries. 4.190.225.88 04:43, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

aromatic vs. potable

This page makes no distinction, it appears, between aromatic bitters and potable bitters, though both kinds are listed in the "Types and Brands" section. The main article is almost entirely about aromatic bitters. Should there be a subsection on potable bitters? There are a number of different styles and kinds of those, including amaro, which should link to/from this page, krauter likor (for which no page exists), amer picon, etc., as well as Swedish bitters (I know nothing of these, regrettably). should this be reorganized? Shabbychef (talk) 19:58, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

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External Links?

The first 5 external links are to company pages from the producers of bitters. Why these 5, why not others, why any? WP:Spam | WP:EL Discuss? 71.224.206.164 (talk) 05:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

About the external link located at the end of the History section: "Bitters are also known to increase ability in performing scientific experiments, mainly when performed at the NSLS, beam line X18B. [3=http://www.nsls.bnl.gov/]" Am I the only one to think this is a private joke? (Roland.flutet (talk) 03:11, 10 April 2011 (UTC))

Amaro vs. Bitter

you put in the same article two kind of beverages, which in Italy are completely different, amari and bitter.
Bitter is a very dry and very bitter kind of aperitif, whose most popular brand is Campari of Milan. As aperitif and as cocktail ingredient it is a sort of milanese alternative to the dry vermouth of Turin.
On the contrary, "amaro" (that in fact means "bitter" in italian) is a bitter-sweet digestif, made with a variety of herbs and usually coloured with caramel. It is the most popular kind of italian digestif. Usually it is not used as ingredient in cocktails, but some of them, china and rabarbaro, are served hot with a lemon slice.
Lele giannoni (talk) 16:34, 9 March 2010 (UTC)95.224.205.211 (talk) 16:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.224.205.211 (talk) 16:19, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Independently of the above comment, I've added Amaro (liqueur) to the 'See also' section. There does seem to be an unadressed overlap between the two pages. As a Brit who has lived mostly in Italy, the above remark seems to make a lot of sense. Fwiw, I see that it:Amaro (liquore) (which lists angostura, for example, alongside Italian amari) is the Italian interwiki link for both Bitters and Amaro (liqueur). An it.wp page for bitters, it:Bitter (bevanda), does exist, but is currently no more than a stub (sporting a merge template!). The en.wp interwiki link for it:Amaro (liquore) is, understandably, Amaro (liqueur). 86.151.103.141 (talk) 22:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Grammar

Is "bitters":

• singular? "A bitters is an alcoholic beverage"
• plural? "Bitters are prepared by infusion or distillation"
• a mass noun? "Angostura bitters was first compounded"

A quick look on OneLook reveals conflicting views on this. Still, ISTM we ought to tidy things up here. But which view should we take? -- Smjg (talk) 00:50, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Good question. I'm inclined to call it plural (bitters), though in some cases it's a mass noun. Somehow treating "Angostura bitters" as a plural seems a little wrong perhaps because it's a commercial brand name, but I could live with "Angostura Bitters were ...." . --Mark Asread 03:47, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure. Is the whole phrase "Angostura Bitters" a trademark, or is "Angostura" by itself the trademark and "Angostura bitters" just a standard English expression for bitters made by the House of Angostura? (Another example of the latter: we talk of "Mars bars", but the trademarked name is simply "Mars".) -- Smjg (talk) 19:48, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Jägermeister?

Is Jägermeister a bitter? As I've seen, Alko classifies it as "herb liqueur", not bitter. It might be wrong, though. 82.141.126.28 (talk) 01:24, 8 May 2014 (UTC)