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[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> by [[User:Ian.thomson]]. —[[User:Mr. Granger|Mr. Granger]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Mr. Granger|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Mr. Granger|contribs]]) 02:52, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> by [[User:Ian.thomson]]. —[[User:Mr. Granger|Mr. Granger]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Mr. Granger|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Mr. Granger|contribs]]) 02:52, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

I've reverted the edit. Changing the definition in such a contentious article needs more discussion. You should wait longer than just one day before changing it. That gives other editors a chance to chime in. Did anyone search the talk page archives to read about previous definition consensus? What source in the article supports the "gradual" statement? Saying evolution is most certainly gradual without source confirmation is walking the OR line. In regards to punctuated equilibrium and gradualism, those are theories "in" evolutionary biology. Does that mean it applies to evolution as a whole? Do we have a source for that? Does a majority of dictionaries and textbooks use the word gradual? Thanks.[[User:Dkspartan1|Dkspartan1]] ([[User talk:Dkspartan1|talk]]) 16:23, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:23, 19 July 2014

Featured articleEvolution is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 18, 2005.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 4, 2005Featured article candidatePromoted
August 17, 2005Featured article reviewKept
February 7, 2007Featured article reviewDemoted
May 31, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
June 10, 2007Featured article candidatePromoted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on October 12, 2007.
Current status: Featured article

Template:Vital article

Warning
WARNING: This is not the place to discuss any alleged controversy or opinion about evolution and its related subjects. This page is for discussing improvements to the article, which is about evolution (not creation science, not creationism, and not intelligent design to name a few), and what has been presented in peer-reviewed scientific literature about it. See Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Some common points of argument are addressed in the FAQ above, which represents the consensus of editors here. If you are interested in discussing or debating over evolution itself, you may want to visit talk.origins or elsewhere.



Editing Social and cultural responses

Hello to all. I added this part in the already mentioned section:

"Other authors with great authority in the field, since the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th, especially the Russian zoologist and biologists who had their analysis made in the regions of Asian Russia, such as Proffesor Kessler and the prominent anarchist Peter Kropotkin are proposing more cooperative version of the theory. They are stating that Darwin and it's basic theory of evolution has been interpreted in it's most narrowest form by its best propagators, such as Julian Huxley and Herbert Spencer. Mutual struggle is accepted as one of the laws of Nature in their interpretations, but they claim that by it self it can't be the only factor of progressive evolution. "Of course", they say," 'Survival of the fittest' is the key factor of evolution, but Mutual struggle doesn't gives an answer to the question: 'Who are the fittest?'". There have been thousands of examples of mutual support and aid in all sorts of species and in every class of animals the most sociable ones are the fittest in their respective classes. As a factor of evolution, Mutual Aid is the main evolutionary factor that made humans succeed in their struggle for existence and gave them the opportunity to be the fittest and most progressive of all the species."

I was said by Physicsandwhiskey that he was not sure how this part was relevant for the subject and gave me an advice to open a discussion on this subject.

Well, here it is. My point is that it is relevant, because even then (in 19th and 20th century), but also now, there are few misconceptions about what is "evolution" and who are the "fittest" in that evolution. Mutual aid and support is totally off the list for many thinkers even today. Those ways of thinking has brought Social-Darwinism, Fascism and Nazism to it's quasi-justification. So, my point is that it's of course a cultural and social response, since it has to do everything with with culture and sociability.

I must add that I know that the concept that the 19th and early 20th century evolutionist had about evolution is way different from the modern concept of evolution, but on the macro-scale, the use of mutual-aid, as well as mutual-struggle, has helped in giving progress to most of the successful species, by which it can not be even said that it isn't scientific.

So, it is on subject, it's scientific and it has sources. I don't know in which point it is off-topic. If you have any other advice about placing that part in other subject of "evolution" which would be more appropriate, just say so.

Thanks in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rastapunk (talkcontribs) 10:27, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you should note that evolutionist (as you rightly said) philosophical thought of the period you mention is political, with indeed distasteful moral overtones, and has little to do with biological evolution. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I do know that. But the scientific fields are overlapping in this point, as I see it. And besides, the scientist here cited were all biologists and zoologist from the late 19th and early 20th century. For instance, Kessler had nothing to do with politics. On the other hand, it is our duty not just to create an encyclopedia with the thought: "Well, OK, this is the biological part - if you need something more about the philosophical, or social influence that this subject creates: check on somewhere else", but I think that it is of extreme value that we at least briefly mention the connection of biology with social, moral and political sciences, since people come here and create their own points of view and then cite wiki for every need they have. Mutual aid as a consequence of evolution is getting as low attention as it got in the 19th and 20th century and the focus is still on Mutual struggle. If you don't say anything in this subject about mutual struggle - that's not a problem, since most of the people are familiar with the connection between evolution and "the survival of the fittest", but if you don't mention mutual aid, than you are a direct associate of the creation and maintenance of "mutual struggle and nothing else" culture, which is an "everyone for his own and the Government for everyone" way of thinking. We can't say that Wikipedia has no social and political value.
Once more, you have a good point about everything you said, but I think that we do need to get out from that scope. If I can't change your mind, though, that's still OK.
Cheers,
Rastapunk (talk) 11:59, 29 May 2014 (UTC)Rastapunk[reply]
I think we must include the theory of Mutual Aid, at least for historical purposes. Even if we ignore the analogies, it does describe biological evolution and as such belongs to this article. Nxavar (talk) 18:40, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2014

In the second sentence of this entry the term "organization" is spelled organisation with an "s" rather than a "z". Maybe this is just a European spelling? Dtheis (talk) 04:25, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The article is in British English—note the use of the term eye colour, for instance. Thus, organisation is the correct spelling for that variety of English. —C.Fred (talk) 04:32, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2014 New Theory of Life

“You start with a random clump of atoms, and if you shine light on it for long enough, it should not be so surprising that you get a plant,” England said. http://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20140122-a-new-physics-theory-of-life/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.34.196.239 (talk) 19:20, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Let's not add that. It appears to be the misuse of a quote; the same source says that "England's theory is meant to underlie, rather than replace, Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection", and you could've mentioned that the person's name was England. Quoting people out of context. Why am I not surprised to see this here? -Baconfry (talk) 19:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Baconfry, are these just random throw-away remarks? I don't understand what you are getting at. Some of English's work, eg [1], [2] and [3], seems exceptionally interesting and relevant. It is perhaps a bit early to include it in Wikipedia, but let's see whether it holds up. --Epipelagic (talk) 20:17, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, never mind. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive, but I thought this was another example of a good scientist being quoted out of context. I don't know if it was 91.34.196.239's intention, but I'll let it go and see if we can find a place to reference England's work. -Baconfry (talk) 20:38, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2014

For greater clarity add "gradual" to the opening sentence changing, "Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations." to "Evolution is the gradual change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations." Dtheis (talk) 21:29, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd carry out the change myself if it wasn't the WP:LEDE. I'll second the change, and back anyone who does carries it out. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:04, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, instead, if no one provides a good objection to it by the time I remember to get to it tomorrow or the next day, I'll make the change. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:34, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with both statements. Plus, I believe "gradual" supported by the provided citations and used elsewhere in the article as well. Mophedd (talk) 01:47, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
See punctuated equilibrium, but it would be a good idea to add "gradual" anyways. Evolution is most certainly gradual relative to the human lifespan, and we don't want to confuse individuals who might have the misconception that individuals can evolve. Baconfry (talk) 01:52, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The punctuated equilibrium article has a section about the multiple meanings of "gradualism", however. Richard Dawkins (the source for much of that section) even argues that punctuated equilibrium is a form of gradualism. Mophedd (talk) 11:41, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done by User:Ian.thomson. —Mr. Granger (talk · contribs) 02:52, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've reverted the edit. Changing the definition in such a contentious article needs more discussion. You should wait longer than just one day before changing it. That gives other editors a chance to chime in. Did anyone search the talk page archives to read about previous definition consensus? What source in the article supports the "gradual" statement? Saying evolution is most certainly gradual without source confirmation is walking the OR line. In regards to punctuated equilibrium and gradualism, those are theories "in" evolutionary biology. Does that mean it applies to evolution as a whole? Do we have a source for that? Does a majority of dictionaries and textbooks use the word gradual? Thanks.Dkspartan1 (talk) 16:23, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]