Talk:Big Bang

IMPORTANT: This is not the place to discuss how you think the universe began, or to discuss whether or not the Big Bang model is correct. This page is for discussing improvements to the article. The article is about the Big Bang model, with content based on information presented in peer-reviewed scientific literature about it or other appropriate sources. See Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. If you wish to discuss or debate the validity of the Big Bang please do so at BAUT forum or talk.origins.

Loose ends

My observations about some loose ends within the article:

1. Black body radiation of cosmic microwave background: What is the significance, specifically for the Big Bang, of the fact that this radiation follows a black body curve? This is not explained in the article.

2. How do we connect the Big Bang (per se) with the large-scale structure of the universe? Perhaps this is difficult to answer, but I don't see how an explosion from an idealized singularity results in spatial clumping of matter.

3. Some statements in the lead need some very slight elaboration. We are not looking for a long lead, but, instead, some foreshadowing of the content in the main body of the article. One thing that needs to be put into the mix of the lead is a statement about dark matter and dark energy. Can one say that with dark energy and the accelerating expansion of the universe that the Big Bang is, effectively, still occurring?

Anyway, that is my to-do list. Can some editors familiar with these topics please contribute to discussion? Thank you, Grandma (talk) 00:12, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

it is good you lay out the challenges like that. I cannot help, but maybe a request from the scientific community might be a good port of call. --Inayity (talk) 12:16, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

The article says "at some moment all of space was contained in a single point". What caused the first point? What energy created the fist point? What was the cause of the bang? The line "which can be considered the "birth" of our universe." From what or whom was the universe birthed? Birthing is not done to ones self. Please Clarify --Kaptinavenger (talk) 18:14, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Indeed nor does this article explain how big bangers explain the problem of entropy. If the BB happened it does not rid itself of Entropy. The stuff before the big bang had to have been more complex than the stuff after, what is the cause of the stuff? --Kaptinavenger (talk) 18:22, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

New idea published

This seems of interest, the idea that the Big Bang created two universes, with two separate space/time frames. Also noted here. The research by Barbour, Koslowski, and Mercati was published in October 2014 in "Physical Review Letters". Airborne84 (talk) 09:05, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

How WP:NOTABLE is it in the broader scientific community? I am not sure but need to make sure it is not WP:FRINGE--Inayity (talk) 16:30, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

FWIW - Yes - imo at the moment, new theory re Big Bang seems worth considering further - and possibly including in the Big Bang article - Comments Welcome of course - in any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 17:15, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

cn tag

(Moved from Myrvin's Talk page}

please don't simply redo things like that. The article does not belong to you and you need to justify your actions Tetra quark ^(talk) 18:46, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

edit: it turns out you added the tag in a different location, so I restored it. Being more clear in the summaries can be good Tetra quark ^(talk) 18:50, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Sorry TQ, what cn are you talking about? I don't remember "redoing" a tag recently. I did get an edit clash on Big Bang, maybe that was it. And I did accidentally press the Save button before adding a comment. If you check, you will see that I very rarely miss. It would only have been "cn" or "where is this?" or suchlike. I see you are one of those editors who think a wikiink is as good as a citation - it is not. Every assertion needs a citation. You should read WP:SCG. Also, see the discussion on Talk:Uncertainty principle Myrvin (talk) 20:58, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

This should be on the article Talk page - I'll move it. Myrvin (talk) 20:59, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

I have now found which cn you mean. As it happens, I did check the wikilink for Big Bang nucleosynthesis and looked for an assertion that said "This provides direct evidence that there was a period in the history of the Universe before the formation of the first stars, when most ordinary matter existed in the form of clouds of neutral hydrogen." I could not find it. But it's quite a big article, so maybe I missed it. If it was there, it would have to be cited too. Or maybe there would be another wikilink to follow - and so on and so on. Myrvin (talk) 21:10, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

The second cn tag you added was fine. I was referring to the first one. Tetra quark ^(talk) 22:13, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

I wish you'd say where. Is it the Flatness theory section? I tagged: "Thus, it is theorized that inflation drove the Universe to a very nearly spatially flat state, with almost exactly the critical density.[citation needed]" Which of the several wikilinks should I look at for verification for that?Myrvin (talk) 07:32, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

In Cosmic acceleration, I tagged "Apparently a new unified theory of quantum gravitation is needed to break this barrier. Understanding this earliest of eras in the history of the Universe is currently one of the greatest unsolved problems in physics." and you removed it. Where in Quantum gravitation or List of unsolved problems in physics does it say this? It still needs a citation. Myrvin (talk) 10:44, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

(moved from Myrvin's Talk page)

One of the unspoken rules of wikipedia is: Don't go adding cn tags everywhere. If I wanted to, I could add cn tags on 90% of the articles I read, but I don't. It looks bad.

Just to let you know, once again I removed one of the cn tags you added after this sentence:

Understanding this earliest of eras in the history of the Universe is currently one of the greatest unsolved problems in physics.

As I said before, that does not need a citation. Tetra quark (talk) 14:39, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

My tag was for the whole paragraph. Perhaps others will agree with you. Otherwise I'll ask for a decision from elsewhere. As you say, there is a lot of uncited material around. It is partly our job to fix it. I looked to see if I could find a reference for it and failed.Myrvin (talk) 15:08, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

You already had added a cn tag in that same paragraph, so the one I removed was referring to one sentence. Tetra quark ^(talk) 15:19, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Instead of arguing about it, I suggest that one of you (or both of you) work to add the needed citations. Isambard Kingdom (talk) 15:25, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

As I said, I have tried. What TQ thinks is another cn tag is actually a clarification tag. The text says that something was noted earlier, and I couldn't find that. Myrvin (talk) 15:56, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

The main difference between us - and it's an argument I keep on having = is that I think the paragraph needs a citation, and TQ doesn't. Since you've shown an interest, what do you think? Myrvin (talk) 16:38, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I think you are right, this needs buttressing with citations. TQ can you supply these? Otherwise, it might be worth prompting an expert. Failing that, I will look into it myself. Isambard Kingdom (talk) 16:55, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Expert attention please: Elaboration and Citation

Following on from the above exchange about citation tags, I'm opening this discussion section to try to alert experts in the field of cosmology that a (possibly slight) amount of attention is needed to the sections on Cosmic acceleration, Primordial gas cloud, and the Flatness problem. Thank you, Isambard Kingdom (talk) 17:46, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Does somebody know how to cross link this to Cosmology? Isambard Kingdom (talk) 17:47, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't know about cross linking, but you might try repeating this on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cosmology. Myrvin (talk) 19:52, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Discussion of capitalization of universe

There is request for comment about capitalization of the word universe at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Capitalization of universe - request for comment. Please participate. SchreiberBike talk 00:30, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

"Disproven"?

I've just read an article on msn.com that said that Canadian and Egyptian scientists have debunked and "utterly disproven" the Big Bang theory as well as the Dark Energy theory by coming up with a solution for quantum gravity called the "Ali-Das model".[1] The basic premise is that the Big Bang's singularity would violate Occam's razor for being "too complicated" for our observations of the universe, and that the expansion we see would be due to the fact that the universe would be full of a quantum fluid made up of (anti-?)gravitons which cause the universe's expansion. Thus, the Big Bang would be "disproven" and the universe has "always been around", and because this new theory would connect quantum mechanics to General Relativity, it would be pretty much the ToE. Worth mentioning in any way? --87.180.222.141 (talk) 17:09, 11 February 2015 (UTC)