Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion

Was R2 ever discussed for redirects to the "Draft:" namespace?

I know that the "Draft:" namespace has been around for a little whole now, but I was wondering: was there ever any discussion to allow redirects from the article space to the draft namespace be deleted per criterion R2? I was just wondering since it doesn't seem as though any major updates have been made to the criterion since the draft namespace was introduced, so I'm not sure if there was ever a discussion to establish consensus on this. I mean, the most applicable case of this would be when a page is moved out of the article space and into the draft namespace, and then the leftover redirect is then nominated for R2. Steel1943 (talk) 21:51, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't recall any formal discussion of this, but I see no reason to make an exception here. If a page is moved to draft space, that is (or should be) because it is not yet ready for the main article space. One of the significant aspects of draft space is that the site robots.txt file is set to request that draft not be indexed by search engines, and i understand that all major ones comply. Therefore, a redirect that is searchable defeats at least part of the point of a move to draft. Beyond that, all the usually reasons not to have cross-namespace redirects seem to me to apply in this case. I can tell you that whenever I move a page from article space to draft, I suppress the redir, or promptly delete the redir if I forget to prevent its creation. (Normally I would notify the creator and any significant contributors on their talk pages, so they know where the draft is to be found, and need not search logs, which new editors may not find obvious.) I can also tell you that I have routinely deleted such redirs as G6 housekeeping. If the community wants to make a clear consensus on this one way or the other, i will of course comply. DES ^(talk) 22:39, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

I've frequently used R2 to delete them (and also G6). I agree with DESiegel about the rationale. I think it was assumed in the discussions of Draft space that this would be the case. DGG ( talk ) 02:18, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Moving an article which isn't ready yet to the draft namespace isn't significantly different from moving a article which isn't ready yet to the user namespace, which is a longstanding case where R2 is used. Hut 8.5 06:08, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

CSD:R2 reads (on face value) to apply to Redirects from mainspace to Draftspace. Having draftspace doesn't change the reading of the CSD because draftspace isn't specifically called out as one of the exceptions. Hasteur (talk) 13:44, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Right, but that doesn't mean that this detail wasn't overlooked after the "Draft:" namespace was created, but then deletions were approved by default due to its current wording, leaving some to think that this precedent was made "official" somewhere. (Either way, it looks as though there is support to keep the current practice in place, per above.) Steel1943 (talk) 13:48, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

• When I move something to Draft I always delete the redirect automatially. But I believe this is something only admins can do. Otherwise, yes, R2 is the procedure. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:12, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Permission for copyright

http://www.bartolomejstankovic.com/eng/permission-for-copyright/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Faris Garib (talk • contribs) 18:16, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

This isn't the proper place to post such a permission, Faris Garib, but it doesn't matter, because that permission is of no use on Wikipedia. The permission must be granted not just to you, but to everyone in the world, and must include use on any site or in any manner, not just on Wikipedia. It must include permission to create modified copies and derivative works for any purpose, including commercial purposes, with no restrictions except for proper attribution. The grant must be irrevocable. In short it must be CC-BY, or something quite similar in effect. See Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for details. DES ^(talk) 21:02, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Self-published books

I think adding a criterion for self-published books with no credible claim of significance would be a good idea as a fair number of such articles are created that clearly do not meet WP:NBOOK, but can't be speedied under current guidelines. Everymorning (talk) 15:15, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I would tend to oppose this, pending further debate. Given current trends in publishing, self-publishing no longer implies vanity publishing automatically, as it once did. I tend to think that articles about creative works are too prone to false positives to make good speedy deletion criteria. I would be interested in seeing some numbers: how many such articles are in fact being nominated at AfD, and how many of them are deleted? A7 and A9, that use the "claim of significance" concept, are some of the most debated and frequently mis-used of the current criteria, IMO. I'm not sure that we should add another. If we were to add such a new criterion, i would suggest that it have the same conditional clause as A9, if the author has a current Wikipedia article, the criterion would not apply. I think we would also need a clearer definition of "self-published". DES ^(talk) 15:29, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

There are 22 entries in my PROD log (User:Everymorning/PROD log) that cite NBOOK in their rationales. Most of them seem to have been deleted. With respect to AFD, Kittens are Assholes was PRODed by me, deproded by the author (if I remember correctly), and then nominated for deletion by me at AFD. Everymorning (talk) 15:56, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

• I would oppose this for the following reasons:

• I think a lot of articles on self-published books may already be speedy-deletable under other criteria, i.e. advertising, obviously invented, etc
• Everymorning's personal experience notwithsatnding, I don't think it is all that common
• We already have too many criteria, I think any new ones should be very, very compelling, with lots of evidence that we should always delete them, and lots of evidence that it is a daily problem. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:58, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I would tend to agree with the above comment with a minor quibble: if a book actually exists and has been published, even if only self-published, then WP:CSD#A11 does not apply. That is not the sort of thing that the "obviously invented" criterion was designed for. DES ^(talk) 20:44, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I can imagine cases where it could apply. Last week I deleted an article on an event some people made up. I have no doubt that the event actually existed, but it was just some event attentded by this person and their friends who were in on the joke it was named after. A book could be real, but could describe a load of nonsense made up by the author. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:38, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Such a book would pretty clearly be non-notable, but it wouldn't be an A11 speedy. I am even rather dubious about the event, based on your description. A11 was designed for things that pretty much exist only in the minds of the creator and a small group of associates. The canonical example is a drinking game. I suppose an "event" that is really just a private party might qualify, but I don't think "made up" includes writing a book of any sort (or composing a song, or any creative work). Still this is really only a side note on the proposal above, which we agree in opposing. DES ^(talk) 02:25, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Come to think of it, a number of actually notable books I would describe as "a load of nonsense made up by the author". The Tao of Physics comes to mind, as does Worlds in Collision and Dianetics. DES ^(talk) 02:27, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

already, I regard an article on an author that says they published a book as making a claim of significance unless it is a self-published book. But I do not want to extend it to the books themselves, which are harder to judge. DGG ( talk ) 22:09, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

RE to OP: Do you have multiple examples of AfD decisions going that way? Hasteur (talk) 02:22, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

In addition to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kittens Are Assholes (noted above) it also seems likely that Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Six Hours Past Thursday will be closed as delete. Also, it appears that the case of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/An angel fell through my window was similar. Everymorning (talk) 14:40, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

• One of the criteria for new criteria is that the problem is frequent. You don't really make that case by citing a five year old deletion discussion. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 04:17, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• There is also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shiver and Fears and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Game, Terry Schott from last year, and Blessing or a Curse, which was deleted by PROD last November. Everymorning (talk) 15:02, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

I would want to see several such AfDs a week before I supported a new criterion for this, or at least several a month. If such pages are being deleted via PROD, I don';t see the need for a speedy criterion, prod is already lightweight and really imposes no higher costs than a speedy. In each case one editor tags and an admin reviews. I can also see a good deal of argument over what exactly constitutes "self-publication" if this became one of the speedy criteria, ao I would need significant indications of benefit to support. DES ^(talk) 15:51, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

What about non-free but notable media?

My problem is that I am trying to follow the policy while trying to be notable. I have wanted to add a sound sample which I admit was replaceable by a free sample, but those sounds from the three original Commander Keen games are notable, for I cannot imagine any other popular game which produces such sounds. I feel as if notability should be a valid defense of keeping such files.

Of course, we do not need to add satellite images of places because we can always snap pictures of them. However, the need for notability is disputed. Is that a justified reason, or is it just about what it is now? Gamingforfun³⁶⁵ (talk) 02:25, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't get what you're trying to say. Notability is an aspect of article subjects, not files. None of the file deletion criteria have anything to do with notability. If you want to use a non-free file, you need to follow Wikipedia:Non-free content. Someguy1221 (talk) 02:30, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

This page is accessible through Wikidata

Why not the other side?Xx236 (talk) 08:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

I think I'm missing something here. Could you elaborate? Peridon (talk) 17:51, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

U5 clarification

I would like to suggest and request that clarification is needed on WP:U5 in that a minimum time-period needs to be specified for a user page to exist without other contributions, before the user page can be tagged for speedy deletion. Today I saw a user page nominated under U5 where the user had made no edits to anything but the user page. The thing is, the user page had just been created within the preceeding 24 hours. Some of the edits to the user page were made by an IP user whose IP address traces to the same university where the user indicated that he or she works. I suspect that some of that IP user's other history can be attributed to the same editor, and the editor has decided to register an account (but I don't have a way to positively confirm that). I also suspect that he or she is still figuring out Wikipedia. To have one's brand-new user page tagged for speedy deletion is pretty bitey, and seems likely to chase away potential new editors. I think that if the criteria for a U5 deletion were to specify some minimum period of time that the userpage might exist before being speedily deleted, especially where it doesn't violate other specific policies, this might be helpful to prevent similar things from happening in the future. I don't have a specific period of time in mind and am looking to the community for ideas of what others feel is appropriate. Etamni | ✉ | ✓  06:04, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I think the WP:BITE needs to take priority, and in trying to stem the abuse by the few, the many insecure newbies should not be caught in the flak. we have to keep it simple- the edit-a-thon will teach the newcomer that they can write anything on the User Page. Leave it at least a calender month before the newbie is bot-sent a message explaining that due to inactivity elsewhere we assume they have lost interest and will be reclaiming the space and user name in 30 days time. Remember that in Europe the summer break is up to 3 months long, and the user may be without internet for all of that time, so a further test needs to be made to demonstrate that the newbie has had internet access during that time. Just a thought.-- Clem Rutter (talk) 15:50, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

An edit-a-thon should NOT teach that the user page is for 'anything' WP:USERPAGE. There are a lot of things that should NOT be there. CVs are a favourite - people seem to think that Wikipedia is a free webhost for CVs. The user page is strictly not for drafting articles, either. Those should go on subpages. I find it rather hard to believe that there are many university students that have no access to the internet outside term time in Europe. Ten years ago, maybe. Not now with all the smartphones, tablets and laptops that are around. I would point out that we can't 'reclaim' the user name of any user, Accounts cannot be deleted, but long unused names may be recycled by request of a user wanting the name. That takes rather more than a year of inactivity, let alone 30 days, and requires very little activity by the account when it was in use. Peridon (talk) 17:49, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Find the WiFi signal

I think you have proved my point- the sort of user we are attracting at an edit-a-thon is not limited to university students- I am are talking about retired professionals who may have taught at a university early in their career. Posting a CV is an abuse- go for it, but don't catch the newbie in the flak. Your comment about internet connections in Europe is fascinating, you have obviously never tried to get SFR put a phone line to a plot of land in rural Aveyron (they will only connect to a building- then there is a 4 month backlog (except in the 3 months of summer when nothing is done), or connect to a Livebox from a stone built guesthouse through 80cm stone walls. Over here time spent on line is limited to picking up Facebook posts and gmail- using it for a hobby, or to get a video link for the kids are off limits. The contention on a campsite line- a 4km piece of copper to a Livebox shared between 200 emplacements brings the connection speed down to that of a dial-up. It is so important to encourage everyone to edit- and not to assume that they have the a fibre connection that you find in a university city. -- Clem Rutter (talk) 22:17, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that there are two different situations that may fall under this rule. One is very blatant use of a userpage to e.g., post a copy of their CV, or advertise their pet project, etc. The other is where a user is posting a few external links to their website/internal links of things they're interested in. In the former case, it makes sense to speedy delete, but in the latter case I think something more like a WP:PROD process would be better than jumping to CSD. I think the title of U5, "Blatant misuse of Wikipedia as a web host", is sensible, but the description could probably do with some clarification to either only cover blatant abuse of userspace, or add a minimum time period for less clear abuse. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:42, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Is there really a need for a PROD like process for non-blatant misuses? These can already be put through MFD. -- Whpq (talk) 20:23, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

• Okay people, what you do is post a polite message at their user talk welcoming them and asking them to change the user page. It's not hard to do. Communication is permitted. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 01:49, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Template:db-author and non-free content

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Wikipedia talk:Non-free content#Template:db-author and non-free content. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 (talk) 15:04, 6 September 2015 (UTC)