Talk:Sam Houser

Untitled

Attempted to expand the article with what little I could find. Thedoorhinge 18:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm 100% certain that Sam (like his brother Dan) Houser is English (London born) and not Scottish. Although there's very little in the way of sources out there you can find evidence to support this.

http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2007/03/FF_160_rockstar

Above is an example.

They are. They grew up in London. I think the Scottish confusion arises from the fact that they bought DMA (Scottish) and the fame of GTA being a DMA game sort of ties them into being Scottish. - X201 16:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Hauser - "one of the creators of the franchise" ??!

Isn't "....and one of the creators behind the Grand Theft Auto-franchise" abit over egging it somewhat ? GTA has existed since David Jones and his DMA Design team designed the 1st game in 1997. Hauser and Rockstar did not get his grubby mits on it until 2001 - by which time there had already been *FOUR* GTA games released. This more than suggests that Hauser was NOT "one of the creators" (either of the game, or the franchise). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.30.14.111 (talk) 11:43, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Birthdate of Sam Houser

A reliable source for the full birth date of Sam Houser is needed. This is because, in the game GTA IV : The Ballads of Gay Tony, one of the scene has the alphabets and numerical: "LJK 24051972" written on the tail of a plane. It is noteworthy that Sam Houser's brother, Dan Houser is born on 24th May, 1974 i.e. 24/05/1974. Deepthroatgta6 (talk) 09:40, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Are you actually basing the birthdate of an individual based on the seemingly random numbers on the back of a plane in a game?--76.24.11.2 (talk) 12:31, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I am not assuming any date, I am trying to find a reliable source for birthdate of Sam Houser. Dan Houser's birthdate is genuinely 24th May, 1974. Deepthroatgta6 (talk) 09:40, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Sam Housers Nationality

Sam Houser is British born and raised to British parents. Someone thought it would be a good idea to try and make out he's 'somewhat American' by adding he was British 'by birth but is now American' Is that realy relevant...? lol

No other person on Wikipedia gets the title of 'American' just because they work or move to America...so why should this be any different?--Boxerboi31 (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Requested edit

Sam Houser was born in Britain to British parents and raised in Britain for most of his 30 odd years. Yet because he know works and has duel citerzen ship with America somone thinks it's a good idea to add Sam is "British born but now American" to the article. This is not relevant what so ever and should be removed. If i at 31yrs of age now move to America or go over to work in America it doesn't make me American, i'd still be British!

No other person on Wikipedia has been given the title of 'American' just because they moved to or work in America, so why should Sam be any different?--Boxerboi31 (talk) 18:51, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

The article is not claiming that Houser should be considered American because he lives and works in America; it merely says that he became a naturalised American citizen in 2007, which appears to be factually correct. The article clearly states Britain as his place of birth. --McGeddon (talk) 19:49, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

request edit

Hello. I noticed that Sams article says "he became an American citizen in 2007." twice. Did it even need it once let alone twice?

It says it once at the top, then again under 'Early Life'. Has it even added anything to the article in the first place? I've not noticed anyone else who's moved countries to have it.

As per McGeddon's comments above. The article is factually correct. He was born in Britain, is now a full American citizen and as per Wikipedia Biography we should not impose a nationality upon him when he hasn't explicitly stated what he defines himself as. The naturalization text is repeated because the lead section is a summary of the rest of the article, hence it appears twice in the article. - X201 (talk) 12:25, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

X201, To be fair that's a bit ludicrous to say "we should not impose a nationality upon him when he hasn't explicitly stated what he defines himself as" His parents are British, he was born in Britain, raised in Britain, educated in Britain, and lived in Britain for the first 36 years of his life. You don't get the choice to determine what your nationality you are by that point, he's British like it or not.

It's a bit like me saying not to call me a woman because i haven't yet decided what i want to be after 22 years! I'm a woman and that's it.

Reliable source where Dan describes him and his brother as British.

"ROCKSTAR: “GRAND THEFT AUTO IS A BRITISH RESPONSE TO AMERICANA”

"The games have always been, in some ways, a British response to Americana, rather than America.” Houser was one of five British developers who founded Rockstar in 1998."

http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=12918

Sam Houser saying he's British.

"And because we're all British, we all love observing certain American excesses"

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2001/09/10/rockstars-sam-houser-mouths-off

Dan Houser saying he's English.

"Dan Houser: I'm English, "

http://kotaku.com/5907413/the-max-payne--comics-will-explain-why-rockstars-hard+boiled-cop-is-so-messed+up

Sam Houser saying that he's a British person.

"As a British person,"

http://retroroundup.1up.com/features/sam-houser-speaks?pager.offset=2

Wiki Wobot (talk) 14:09, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

No need for the aggression. If you had just posted these sources at the start of the week they would have been added to the article. The statement about stating someone's nationality is Wikipedia policy, if you think it is wrong you need to talk to the people who created it, not rant at me. The information will be added to the article later. - X201 (talk) 15:47, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

When later? *looks around* — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.195.65 (talk) 22:13, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

When I've contacted the people who do biographies on Wikipedia for advice on the correct way to proceed. Feel free to contact them yourself if you feel this is very urgent. - X201 (talk) 12:59, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

No need to worry guys. With a little help from the Wikipedia help/webchat community I've done it all for you.--Kandyce 2013 (talk) 15:31, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Kandyce, you added the references incorrectly. You're supposed to put the author of the reference's name in the reference, not your own. Have fixed. If you want to, its perfectly acceptable to put just the URL between the REF tags, there are automated tools that can sort out the rest. - X201 (talk) 07:49, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

British or English

I'm compiling the request for clarification from WP:BIO that I mentioned above and I noticed that the refs for Sam only say British, not English so I've changed that to suit the refs. Of the links in the previous section only the ones for Dan say English. - X201 (talk) 08:07, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi X201. I don't suppose it really matters to be honest. His brother Dan says he's English and Sam says he's British. Their parents are English and they grew up in England etc etc. English people call themselves English or British.--Kandyce 2013 (talk) 20:50, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm only bothered about it from an article point of view. I just want to get it done correctly, with sources, to prevent future problems. - X201 (talk) 08:12, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Even Irish people say the British when referring specifically to the English, even though it would exclude Scots and Northern Irish. It's because British contains the idea also of the British Empire and that history, like it or not. Grammatically, it's incorrect though (here I suspect too that fans of the exciting but violent videogame franchise--which really has changed the face of the industry--like the historical connotation), especially in a place like Wikipedia, with American, Malaysian, and other readers to whom such subtleties would be lost so changing.--96.246.181.83 (talk) 13:58, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Sam's Nationality.

Hi all. I see we are back to the patriotic vandalism of the past. I had sorted and solved this problem with the Wikipedia team a few years back. But it has started being vandalised again.

Sam was born in England, raised in England, spent the first 36yrs of his life in England. Still does spend time in England. He even refers to himself as English and British. So why are people changing his nationality to American again all of a sudden?

Reliable source where Sam and Dan describe themselves as British.

"ROCKSTAR: “GRAND THEFT AUTO IS A BRITISH RESPONSE TO AMERICANA” "The games have always been, in some ways, a British response to Americana, rather than America.” Houser was one of five British developers who founded Rockstar in 1998." http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=12918

Sam Houser saying he's British. "And because we're all British, we all love observing certain American excesses" http://uk.ign.com/articles/2001/09/10/rockstars-sam-houser-mouths-off

Dan Houser saying he's English. "Dan Houser: I'm English, " http://kotaku.com/5907413/the-max-payne--comics-will-explain-why-rockstars-hard+boiled-cop-is-so-messed+up

Sam Houser saying that he's a British person. "As a British person," http://retroroundup.1up.com/features/sam-houser-speaks?pager.offset=2

--Kandyce 2013 (talk) 00:44, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

@Kandyce 2013: Simply: When one seeks and gains citizenship in a new country, one's nationality changes to that of the country where one is a citizen. The place one is born does not, but that is not what nationality means (click to see). Houser's birthplace is already listed as London. As for why he chose to become an American citizen, you'd have to ask him. But he did, and our article here will reflect that fact. General Ization ^Talk 00:49, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

But it doesn't. They have dual citizenship. And he also has a home and resides in the UK. A few years ago, there was a bit of an edit war on the page. I took it to the Wikipedia team to be discussed. It went from British, to Nationalized American. Then the Wiki team voted on British. And it stayed that way until just recently. I don't see why British has to be removed from the nationality. Seems childish. --Kandyce 2013 (talk) 01:15, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Kandyce 2013, Wikipedia is based on reliable sources. If a source says that Houser became an American citizen, and no other publication afterward says that he is British, then one cannot say that he has dual citizenship. If there are sources that mention his British status post-2007, then by all means update the page to indicate that he holds dual-citizenship. Primefac (talk) 01:24, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

To become a naturalized American citizen, as Houser himself states he has done here, one must renounce any prior citizenship. There are only a limited number of circumstances where one can claim dual citizenship (e.g., birth on foreign soil to American parents), and there is no evidence that any of them apply to Houser. You will need to provide evidence that he has such status before it can be reported here. General Ization ^Talk 01:41, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

By the way, all of the quotes from and about Sam that you reproduced above date from prior to 2007, except the first, which talks in 2012 about Houser as a British developer in 1998. Prior to 2007, Houser was a British national. As for Dan, he still is, but that doesn't mean that Sam is. General Ization ^Talk 01:50, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

He is a Nationalized American. Which means."The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a naturalized U.S. citizen has the right to return to his native country and to resume his former citizenship, and also to remain a U.S. citizen even if he never returns to the United States. Although naturalizing citizens are required to undertake an oath renouncing previous allegiances, the oath has never been enforced to require the actual termination of original citizenship." So therefore he is still a British citizen too.

The sources to show that he also still resides in the UK are quite difficult as they were on TV. Both Houser brothers appear on UK TV from time to time. But whenever they are on TV, they always like to emphasize that they are British, that the Grand Theft Auto games are British etc. As you can see from this video. When they won an award Dan Houser says we won "Best BRITISH game" He put emphasis on the word British. They often do as sources above also show. This video of them is from 2014. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_R_XOZKiHU&list=PLby-UMvsblGbUPKkbur4cXmT0PKYn8WNU --Kandyce 2013 (talk) 01:56, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

The GTA games are British; he is of British birth and, in that sense, he will always be able to describe himself as British; no one is disputing any of this. Yes, he could renounce his American citizenship and once again take up British citizenship, but that is immaterial; there is no evidence that he has done so, while there is plenty of evidence that he became in 2007 and is currently an American citizen. You really need to accept that he is an American citizen, and that our article here will reflect that his nationality is American, because that is the fact as reflected by reliable sources cited in the article. General Ization ^Talk 02:05, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

The fact is. Although naturalizing citizens are required to undertake an oath renouncing previous allegiances, the oath has never been enforced to require the actual termination of original citizenship." So therefore he is still a British citizen too. --Kandyce 2013 (talk) 02:08, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

You are quibbling over a legality. This article is not about the prosecution of US immigration law. I would expect Sam Houser to be the final authority on how we should describe him here: "I'm American. It's official."[1] General Ization ^Talk 02:16, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

But he is also still British. He keeps saying he is British .Although naturalizing citizens are required to undertake an oath renouncing previous allegiances, the oath has never been enforced to require the actual termination of original citizenship." So therefore, by law, he is still a British citizen to, whether he said "It's official i'm now American" or not. The law states that he is still a British and American citizen. Wikipedia is supposed to be factual as you said. And the facts are, he is a British American citizen. --Kandyce 2013 (talk) 02:33, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Enough. If you change his nationality again, your edit will be reverted. If you have a problem with that, the Biographies of living persons noticeboard is that-a-way. General Ization ^Talk 02:37, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

But we have to get the facts right, no? Both brothers appear on British TV. I will record and upload the next time they are on. You cannot argue with facts straight from the horses mouths. There was a documentary about the brothers and Grand Theft Auto on TV tonight actually. That may some shed some light.