Talk:Laksa

Served in

The article repeated "X laksa is served in Y", which makes no sense -- it implies that laksa is a mysterious X something dropped into a Y before serving. Instead, curry laksa is a curry-based noodle soup and that's what it says now. Jpatokal 16:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Sarawak laksa is entirely a different type of laksa.

If you want to categorize the Sarawak laksa, you should at least categorize it under Curry Laksa instead of Asam Laksa this is because it is more similar to the curry laksa, not the asam laksa. Otherwise, it should be classified as a different type of laksa as the Sarawak laksa's soup is neither curry nor fish gravy at all.

P/s: Singapore laksa is the bomb. I love it. (Matt McSales 15:41, 10 June 2007 (UTC))

Laksam is related to Asam Laksa!

Another fact that you guys got mixed up is the Kelantanese Laksam. It should be categorized under asam laksa as it is preepared like asam laksa. That's why it's called Laksam, acronym for Laksa Asam. (Matt McSales 15:49, 10 June 2007 (UTC))

Err,

== no. The laksam I've had has always been rich, coconutty, and completely non-assam. I agree that it's a "fish paste" laksa, not a "curry" laksa, but it hardly qualifies as assam if it's not sour! See eg. [1]. Jpatokal 16:02, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. I think we need to develop a two-dimensional laksa matrix: coconut vs non-coconut, and fish paste vs curry. Jpatokal 03:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

	Coconut	Assam
Curry	Laksa lemak Katong laksa	Sarawak laksa
Fish paste	Johor laksa Laksam	Penang laksa Ipoh laksa

I think you should also add, Laksa from Indonesia...As you know, there are also some Laksas found in Jakarta, called Laksa Betawi, as well as Laksa Bogor. And you should also know about Laksa served in Tangerang (Banten Province)

Box

The transliterations in the box are either hidden or don't appear at all. This is no good. The transliterations should appear. Badagnani 03:42, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Box, again

Shouldn't the Hokkien name be included in the box? Badagnani 03:44, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

What is the name of the noodle itself?

Is "laksa" the name of the dish, or the uncooked/raw noodle itself? Badagnani 23:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I think it's the name of the dish. Chensiyuan 00:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The dish. The noodles used vary greatly between versions. Jpatokal 02:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

To clarify my own comment: these is one type of noodle known as "laksa noodle", which may or may not be used in laksa. See Talk:Chinese noodles#Laksa. Jpatokal 05:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Persian laksa?

Regarding this, I'd like to see a few more scholarly sources than a Middle Eastern cookbook for this rather unusual theory. Bald assertions like ""laksa" must have been an old Malay dish" are not encyclopedic. Jpatokal 05:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Persian "Laksha" vs. Sanskrit "Laksha"

I found out that the term "laksha" is a Medieval Persian word for "noodle" from a book by Ghillie Basan, The Middle Eastern Culinary (2001) p.125. If someone is not satisfied, you may check it from the book. Now, the Iranians refer to "noodle" as "reshteh".

If Laksa is originated from the Chinese, it would not be that spicy. Futhermore if Malays adopt a dish from another culture, they would retain the name of the ingredient. For example, Malay refer to "noodle" as "mee" or "mi" and they do not give any Sanskrit name to it.

The same goes with "rice vermicelli", the Malays refer to it as "bee hoon" or "bihun" and "koey tiaw" or "keutiau", depending on the size of the pasta. We called chapati, "roti capati" which undeniably has some Urdu origin in its name. We called cake, "kek". We maintained the English pronunciation but we use our own spelling system.

I am strongly against the original article of 'Laksa' which depicted as though Laksa comes from the Peranakan Chinese. The Peranakan Chinese simply improvised it. If one comes to the north of Malaysia and taste the authentic Kedah Laksa, one will understand that Laksa is undoubtedly a Malay dish. The gravy is distintively Malay with the "daun kesum", "bunga kantan", "belacan", chillies, the dried sliced "gelugor" and the ground fish flesh. There is no Chinese influence at all in it. We do not use fish balls or fish cakes. In fact, even during my childhood days in the 1970s, my grandmother used to make the homemade fresh rice noodle by herself. We do not use any version of Chinese dried rice noodle. The Chinese dried rice noodle is definitely a much later improvisation or for the matter of convenience.

If one comes from Singapore, one will think Laksa is a Peranakan Chinese invention. Only if you are born in the north Malaysia, then only you can understand the Malayness of Laksa. As the Penang Chinese developed their own version of Penang Laksa, the use of "petis" (shrimp caramel) also become acceptable to the Malays. I guess Laksa in a way bind the Malays and Chinese together.

I find the argument that the word laksa derive from Sankrit "laksha" is rather hilarious. In the olden days, before the coming of the British, Malays did use the word 'laksa' to mean 5 figures amount in number. Now the term has become obsolete and has been replaced with "puluh ribu". That 'laksa' definitely derive from Sanskrit. Why should we refer to a dish in terms of mathematical figure? Furthermore when I read the book by Basan, she does not trying to justify that laksa is a Persian invention. She was talking about wheat and about an old version of noodle that Persians used to produce hundred of years ago. Nothing in the book ever mention about South East Asian laksa. By knowing that "laksha" was the word for "noodle" in Medieval Persian, then it strikes me that laksa derive from the very same word.

If one want to know more about the arrival of Persian traders in Kedah several centuries ago which is archaeologically supported, you may visit the Lembah Bujang Archaeological Museum in Merbok, Kedah in northern Malaysia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrinaomar (talk • contribs) 06:14, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

A few of your assertions are obviously wrong. There are lots of spicy Chinese dishes in Malaysia/Singapore: chilli crab, mee pok, etc. Sanskirt (via Hindi/Tamil) words are used in Malay, consider eg. the words roti, raja, putra, suka, utara etc and go read up on Old Malay, "heavily influenced by Sanskrit".

More importantly, though, Wikipedia does not care what you think. You need to show some scholarly research for these claims and no, a cookbook is not enough.

So here's the entry for laksa in an etymological dictionary of Singlish:

laksa /lahk-sah, ÈlAksA/ n. [Mal., a mixture of vermicelli and fish-paste (Winstedt; Wilkinson says the term is < Hind. & Pers. lakhshah a kind of vermicelli (NMS suggests Pers. laksha vermicelli), but the word has not been found in McGregor or Palmer); poss. < Skt. लकशस् lakshas, लकशम् laksham a lac, one hundred thousand (Monier-Williams), f. its numerous ingredients (see September 2006 quot.) (> Hind. लख lakh (chiefly a prefix) one hundred thousand; fig. a vast number; लकश lakṣ one hundred thousand (McGregor)); or perh. < Pers. لخشه lakhsha, لخشك lakhshak a type of frumenty (a dish made of hulled wheat boiled in milk, and seasoned with cinnamon, sugar, etc.), a certain sweetmeat (Johnson)]

That's at least three different derivations for the term. They should definitely all be covered here in Wikipedia, but I don't see how you can assert that one of them is Right and the others are Wrong.

Also, regardless of where the word laksa comes from, I think it's pretty clear that the dish in anything like its present form originates in Malaya. Jpatokal 16:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Laksa : Some further anecdote

I found the term "lakhsha" from the book The Middle Eastern Kitchen by Ghillie Basan, published by Kyle Cathy Limited (2001). The book emphasizes on the Middle Eastern cuisine and was talking about the essential ingredients of the Middle Eastern cuisine. The term "lakhsha" appeared under the heading of Wheat at page 125.

She mentioned, and allow me to quote it in verbatim,

"[M]edieval culinary manuals refer to fresh noodles as lakhsha, a Persian word and to dry noodles as itriyya. By the thirteenth century, the word lakhsha was replaced by rishta (reshteh in Farsi) also a Persian word which is what the noodles are called today."

Well, I guess this is clear how the Malays got the term laksa. Please do not tell me that the Peranakan Chinese invented the dish and gave it a Persian name. Even if the original writer of the laksa article considers the Sanskrit word as the origin for the word laksa, but why on earth the Singaporean Peranakan Chinese want to adopt a Sanskrit word for a dish that was invented by them? The technology of "laksa beras" or fresh homemade noodle may come from the Indians. This can be seen from the making of "putu mayam". But this is merely my guess work. But 'putu mayam is a dessert and not a savoury dish. Since Italian spaghetti and laksa are both savouries and we can see the Middle Eastern connection now, it is not at all impossible that laksa was brought by the Persian traders to this region several centuries ago.

While I was in Iran early this year, the Iranians, who are the modern Persians love a stew dish made from noodles, tomato soup, lemon juice and dill. Tomato soup might be an addition after Colombo found the Americas but dill and noodles definitely remind me a lot of laksa. This stew might have been originated hundred of years ago.

I hope the original writer of the article do make some study on Malays' Asam Pedas. In fact I would suggest her or him to have an in-depth study of Indonesian food as well. If one study the South East Asian food, the South East Asians be it the Malays, the Indonesians, the Thais or the Burmese love to add aromatic herbs in their cuisine. The Thais love the kaffir lime leaves, the lemonstalk and the galangal. The Minangkabaus of Sumatera love the ruku-ruku (tropical basil)and the turmeric leaves. The Javanese love the daum salam (Indonesian bay leaves or in Malay, daun samak) and the Menados of the Sulawesi loves daun kemangi (tropical basil).

In Malaysia and Singapore, laksa definitely comes from the Malays. If the original writer wants to write an article dedicated to Peranakan laksa, she (or he) may do so. But please do not sideline the Malays' contribution in the evolution of laksa in Malaysia and Singapore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrinaomar (talk • contribs) 16:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

If laksa is malay in origin, why have I never come across malay vendors selling laksa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.119.127.30 (talk) 21:19, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Laksa Outside Southeast Asia

I understand due to then high number of overseas students and migrants from Singapore and Malaysia, laksa is universally available in urban Australia, even in many non-Asian establishments like Bill Granger's restaurants in Sydney, but its availability is confined to Malaysian noodle houses across the Tasman in New Zealand, and in the US it is still virtually unknown. Should this be added into the main article? --JNZ (talk) 00:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Main Picture

Whose idea was it to put a bowl of rice noodles topped with what looked like turd swimming in some dull, unappetizing soup and dared to call it LAKSA?! Please somebody change it with something better. It makes me sick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.170.94.90 (talk) 11:35, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Types of laksa

The 'types of laksa' section claims there are 2 types of laksa, then the rest of the article goes on to describe at least 3 or 4. This needs to be reconciled. Ashmoo (talk) 17:44, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

What it's trying to say (I cleaned it up a bit) is that laksas can be categorized as either curry-type (coconut/curry/sweet) or assam-type (fish/tamarind/sour), and then there are a couple of oddball laksas that mix together features of the two. Somebody has given Sarawak laksa (one of the oddballs) its own column in the table, but I'm not sure this is necessary or representative. Jpatokal (talk) 03:36, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

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I have an idea wandering around in my head that laksa is a word from the very extreme north of Europe!?≈≈≈

What an interesting article! 13:33, 11 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soup jennay (talk • contribs)

RFC: Origin of Laksa

The claim that Laksa originated only from Malaysia can be traced back to the September 21, 2009 claim by then Malaysian Minister of Tourism Ng Yen Yen's attempt to brand those foods as of Malaysian origin. The most recent update to the issue was the public statement on September 23, 2009 that the minister claimed that she wanted to do a study to verify that claim, but up to the point that she stepped down from her post in 2013, that study still has not been made, or at least the results were not published[2]. Recently an editor has been pushing Ng's claim by removing other countries [3] and reverting information/context about the case [4], even claiming that no relevant source had been provided to show that there Malaysia is not the sole claimant of origin for the dish. [5]. Hope to get more eyes on this. Zhanzhao (talk) 06:34, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

161.139.222.17, Magbantay, I have added additional references that show that there are conflicting claims of origin for the dish, with credentials no less credible than the source of the single-origin claim. [6][7][8] Again, I request that we discuss this in talk and not just delete well referenced information. The best way to fix this is to list all countries in the info box, then elaborate and break down the individual claims in the body of the article. But if you guys keep just reverting its not helping at all. Zhanzhao (talk) 23:30, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Update: I have added a new section which includes all the different origin claims, all of which have references provided. Please participate by discussing. Zhanzhao (talk) 09:04, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

It seems to me that there are a great many claims made, which merit inclusion as claims; but there are no reliable sources for exactly when and where this dish first appeared. Under these circumstances it's very disruptive to have editors reverting to get their nationally preferred version of what is "correct" in the infobox. Some day I might concoct a banquet of 'dishes of disputed origin', such as laksa, hummus, krainerwurst, chicken tikka masala, and pavlova. William Avery (talk) 11:01, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. I really don't know how to proceed though. Any suggestions? I have started this discussion here and added info and sources that clearly explained the different claims, they don't seem to have even bothered to check what was being added and just blindly reverting everything, assuming their one source somehow trumps everything else thats being added.Zhanzhao (talk) 11:49, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

I think it is safe to assume that Laksa is a Peranakan Cuisine (Chinese immigrant-native Malay/Bumiputera or Pribumi intermarriage). The Peranakan culture can be found most significantly in this cities: Penang, Malacca, Singapore, Medan, Batavia (Jakarta), Tangerang, Bogor, Semarang and Surabaya. These cities are today separated between three countries namely Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia. Sure Indonesia have our own of laksa recipes, nevertheless after visiting all of these countries, I think laksa is somewhat more prevalent in Malaysia and Singapore. Those two countries are actually united prior to 1965. Laksa is more likely fought between Malaysia and Singapore, while Indonesia seems to satisfied with our soto. Every culture seems to have their own flavoursome soup recipe as their "national dish". This role is played by laksa for Malaysia and Singapore, while laksa popularity seems to be overshadowed by soto in Indonesia, which has become somewhat our "national soup". The laksa origin is unclear, but probably it was in Penang, Malacca or Singapore, and quickly spread to Medan and Batavia. Until there is a study and well referenced source, the contradicting claims and source is not helping. I think Laksa is clearly Malaysian, but Singapore is so close and have thriving Peranakan culture too. It is safe to said that laksa is shared between Malaysia and Singapore, and to lesser extent Indonesia. Gunkarta  talk  13:59, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

I think it is clear by reference Laksa came from Malaysia. References that have provided are from a reliable source. Officially, Laksa has been gazetting or certification as a Malaysian heritage food by the Malaysian Department of National Heritage under ‘Act 645 (National Heritage Act 2005)’. Also, just like Malaysian Tourism Dr Ng said (2009), “we will identify certain key dishes (to declare as Malaysian);Laksa. However, since today, no official claim from other countries. It is just only war of words among the citizens. If something is not right, there should be officially protests against this statement. There are many varieties of laksa in Malaysia, and almost every state has their own version of laksa. It’s show how unique and important to the nation. Singapore only has a version of Laksa. Only in 2014, recorded about 13.9 million Singapore tourists visited Malaysia (channelnewsasia,2014). From this number, it is possible outflow of food from Malaysia to Singapore have occurred. Based on Asian Coresspondat, writed by Lara Dunston,” Although laksa can also be found in Indonesia and Singapore, it is Malaysian in origin and Malaysia remains the best place to try it in its many forms. The most common theory for the origins of the name ‘laksa’ is that it comes from the Persian word for noodle, ‘laksha’. How noodles ended up in Malaysia is not codified, however, Chinese immigrants did bring noodles to Melaka, which may go some way to explain the Penang connection and the origins of this complex dish”. Here, It was clear that globally recognized that Laksa is from Malaysia.161.139.222.17 (talk) 11:29, 13 January 2016 (UTC)