Talk:Helmut Lent

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:04, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Numbers adding up

110 total victories, minus 103 night time leaves 7 daytime victories, but the lede also states that he received his Knights Cross of the Iron Cross after 8 daytime victories? --Narson ~ Talk • 00:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I just read the lede on the main page and noticed the same thing. Glad I'm not the only one. Timbouctou (talk) 01:19, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: I concur with both of you; this glaring discrepancy jumped right out at me, and I haven't even read the rest of the article yet.     Magnet For Knowledge (talk) 20:59, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Nazi Party

Was Helmut Lent a member of the Nazi Party? —Preceding unsigned comment added by RED DAVE (talk • contribs) 00:35, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Indeed he was. WackyWace ^{talk to me, people} 11:21, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I love the fact that some genius at Wikipedia decided to feature an article about a Nazi on the 66th anniversary of D-Day. For shame! Erikeltic ^(Talk) 21:46, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

What makes you say he was a member of the Nazi party? Please provide a source for this statement! I don't recall that in any of the books and references of this article was he ever mentioned as a member of the Nazi party. MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:48, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I must have misread the question as was he a Nazi, rather than a member of the Nazi party. Apologies, WackyWace ^{talk to me, people} 18:21, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

He fought for Nazi Germany, he was a Nazi Germany war hero and as such his fame was abused by the officials but I would strongly argue against whether or not he was a Nazi. The officials even denied him and his family to have a priest present at his funeral. MisterBee1966 (talk) 05:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

First of all, one needs to define „Nazi.“ In Germany, “Nazi” was an abbreviation for “member of the "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei” (aka, the nazi party.) Later, after Hitler took power, “Nazis” stood for the Hitler regime, as in “the Nazis started the war.” Today, a “Nazi” is an unteachable who still thinks what Hitler did was the greatest thing on earth.

Were you a Nazi if you were a member of the NSDAP, aka the Nazi party? During the Hitler regime, it was “highly recommended” to become a party member if you wanted to get anywhere. Not being a member was poison to your career and created suspicions. In 1945, there were 7.5 million members. Nevertheless, many of the high ranking officers of the Reichswehr were not members. Originally, the army was apolitical, it served the country. That was one of the reasons why Hitler distrusted the army and created his own private army, the SS.

My father and my mother were members. My father was an apolitical civil servant and always did as he was told. He believed in nothing except rules and regulations. My mother believed in Hitler. After the war, she was outraged, felt betrayed and into her old age picketed against neo-nazi parties in Germany. Were they “Nazis?”

I guess we’ll never know whether Lent was a fervent Nazi, a member because he had to, or no member at all. In those times, if you did not believe in Hitler, you kept it to yourself if you didn’t want to end up hanging from a butcher’s hook on a piano wire.

There is an association in Gemany that made it their mission to research the past of all whose names were given to Bundeswehr (German Army) barracks. There’s the “Lent-Kaserne” in Rothenburg. And despite intensive digging, the association could only find that Göring had said in his eulogy for Lent: “Our Lent was an enthusiastic soldier, a hard and tough fighter, a shining hero. He was not just a soldier, not just a fighter, he was also a passionate supporter of our National Socialist world view, and in this regard, he was an educator and role model for his men. He knew of the great powers that originate from this movement.” http://www.asfrab.de/fundgrube/kasernennamen-der-bundeswehr.html . If Lent would have been a party member, I guess Göring would have said “we also lose a passionate member of our great party.” That a priest wasn’t admitted to the funeral doesn’t count. The Nazis weren’t fond of priests. Lent was dead, he was unable to request a priest. Anyway, unless we have a source that says "Lent was member # 1234567 of the NSDAP" we won't know whether he was a member. Even if he was a member, we won't know whether he was a "Nazi" as we understand the term. --BsBsBs (talk) 10:56, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

So, how was it done?

It would be nice to have a sentence or two explaining how Lent was able to see his targets at night, the link to night fighter doesn't tell us much. I was inclined to stuff "...in his radar-adapted Messerschmitt Bf 110..." into the article somewhere but that would be guessing, so I'll leave the explaining to those who have studied Lent and night fighting more closely. --CliffC (talk) 01:20, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

German Language Text

This article is larded with German language text which is 100% usless to 99.9% of the readers of this E-n-g-l-i-s-h ENGLISH version of Wikipedia.

I have tried to delete this useless lard, and someone keeps everting reverted my edits.

I guess if the bigshots who have votes that count toward Wikipedia content and editing policy insist on larding English artricles with non-English text then someone like me cannot do anything about it.

After all, those are the same voting members whose editorial judgement impells them try to make sure that each day's featured articles include one on sports, preferably University of Michigan sports, so I guess I am expecting too much for them to agree to cut any lard anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NCDane (talk • contribs) 18:15, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I think the reason it's there is because it's the German equivalent of terms that are already translated, so it adds something for the .1% of readers who can understand it. Brutannica (talk) 19:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I think the German text is entirely appropriate, is in line with good academic practice, and should stay in. I think that far more than 0.1% of en readers will have some German, but in fact I think it is potentially useful to far more people than that. Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Shot down or ran out of fuel over Fornebu?

Helmut Lent had to make an emergency landing at Fornebu airport during the German invasion of Norway in 1940. But was it because of battle damage or because he ran out of fuel? The article says both things. This should be clarified. Manxruler (talk) 21:52, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

non RS & not used for citations

I removed dubious links and non RS sources not used for citations with this edit. For more on the source, please see:

• Helden der Wehrmacht.

Please let me know if there are any concerns. K.e.coffman (talk) 10:19, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Wehrmachtbericht references

Archiving Wehrmachtbericht references. MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:41, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Date	Original German Wehrmachtbericht wording	Direct English translation
Monday, 20 November 1941	Oberleutnant Lent errang seinen 20. Nachtjagdsieg.	Oberleutnant Lent achieved his 20th nocturnal aerial victory.
Thursday, 28 January 1942	Bei der Abwehr eines Angriffs britischer Bomber auf das Reichsgebiet in der Nacht vom 27. Januar erzielte eine Nachjagdstaffel unter Führung von Hauptmann Lent und Oberleutnant Prinz zu Lippe-Weißenfeld ihren 100. Abschuß.	A night fighter squadron under the leadership of Hauptmann Lent and Oberleutnant Prince zu Lippe-Weißenfeld scored their 100th aerial victory when warding off an attack of British bombers on the Reich on the night of 27 January.
Saturday, 16 May 1942	Hauptmann Lent errang in der Nacht zum 16. Mai seinen 30. Nachtjagdsieg.	Hauptmann Lent achieved his 30th nocturnal aerial victory in the night to 16 May.
Sunday, 21 June 1942	Oberleutnant zur Lippe Lippe-Weißenfeld errang in der letzten Nacht drei Luftsiege, Hauptmann Lent erzielte seinen 35. Nachtjagdabschuß.	Oberleutnant zur Lippe Lippe-Weißenfeld achieved three aerial victories last night, Hauptmann Lent achieved his 35th nocturnal aerial victory.
18 June 1944	Oberstleutnant Lent, Kommodore eines Nachtjagdgeschwaders, schoß in der Nacht vom 15. zum 16. Juni seinen 100. Gegner ab.	Oberstleutnant Lent, commodore of a night fight wing, shot down his 100th adversary in the night from 15 to 16 June.
11 October 1944	Ergänzend zum Wehrmachtbericht wird gemeldet: Geschwaderkommodore Oberstleutnant Helmut Lent, Inhaber der höchsten deutschen Tapferkeitsauszeichnung, fand den Fliegertod. Mit ihm verliert die Luftwaffe ihren erfolgreichsten Nachtjäger, der im Kampf gegen die Nächtlichen Terrorangriffe der englischen Luftwaffe 102 Luftsiege errungen hat.	Reported additionally to the Wehrmachtberich: Geschwaderkommodore Oberstleutnant Helmut Lent, recipient of the highest German medal of bravery, found a flier's death. With him the Luftwaffe loses their most successful night fighter, who in combat against the British nocturnal terror attacks achieved 102 aerial victories.

• Die Wehrmachtberichte 1939–1945 Band 1, 1. September 1939 bis 31. Dezember 1941 (in German). München, Germany: Deutscher Taschenbuch Verlag GmbH & Co. KG. 1985. ISBN 978-3-423-05944-2. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |trans_title= ignored (|trans-title= suggested) (help)
• Die Wehrmachtberichte 1939–1945 Band 2, 1. Januar 1942 bis 31. Dezember 1943 (in German). München, Germany: Deutscher Taschenbuch Verlag GmbH & Co. KG. 1985. ISBN 978-3-423-05944-2. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |trans_title= ignored (|trans-title= suggested) (help)
• Die Wehrmachtberichte 1939–1945 Band 3, 1. Januar 1944 bis 9. Mai 1945 (in German). München, Germany: Deutscher Taschenbuch Verlag GmbH & Co. KG. 1985. ISBN 978-3-423-05944-2. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |trans_title= ignored (|trans-title= suggested) (help)