Talk:Greece: Difference between revisions
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:First, you deleted sourced information about the very high [[Human Development Index]] of Greece. This is considered blanking and it is [[WP:VAND|vandalism]]. Second, unemployment data does not belong at the [[WP:LEAD]] of a country article. This article is about the country, not its unemployment rate which can change and is ephemeral compared to the time-scale of the country facts. See also [[WP:RECENTISM]] and [[WP:NOTNEWS]]. [[User:Dr.K.|<span style="font-weight:600;font-family: arial;color: steelblue;font-size: 1em;">Dr.</span>]] [[User talk:Dr.K.|<span style="font-weight:600;font-family: arial;color: steelblue; font-size: 1em">K.</span>]] 15:09, 7 June 2017 (UTC) |
:First, you deleted sourced information about the very high [[Human Development Index]] of Greece. This is considered blanking and it is [[WP:VAND|vandalism]]. Second, unemployment data does not belong at the [[WP:LEAD]] of a country article. This article is about the country, not its unemployment rate which can change and is ephemeral compared to the time-scale of the country facts. See also [[WP:RECENTISM]] and [[WP:NOTNEWS]]. [[User:Dr.K.|<span style="font-weight:600;font-family: arial;color: steelblue;font-size: 1em;">Dr.</span>]] [[User talk:Dr.K.|<span style="font-weight:600;font-family: arial;color: steelblue; font-size: 1em">K.</span>]] 15:09, 7 June 2017 (UTC) |
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Very well, but from the description in the lead, Greece seems to be an ideal country and it is not. Plus the Greek crisis isnt even mentioned in the history part in the lead and it is an important aspect of 21st century Greece |
Revision as of 15:13, 7 June 2017
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Turks of Western Thrace
General Distribution of Population in Western Thrace (1912-1920) | ||||||||
Census/Estimate | Muslims | Pomaks | Bulgarians | Greeks | Others | Total | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1912 estimate | 120,000 | - | 40,000 | 60,000 | 4,000 | 224,000 | ||
1919 Bulgarian | 79,539 | 17,369 | 87,941 | 28,647 | 10,922 | 224,418 | ||
1919 Bulgarian | 77,726 | 20,309 | 81,457 | 32,553 | 8,435 | 220,480 | ||
1920 French | 74,730 | 11,848 | 54,092 | 56,114 | 7,906 | 204,690 | ||
1920 Greek | 93,273 | - | 25,677 | 74,416 | 6,038 | 201,404 |
During Ottoman rule before 1912, Greeks constituted a minority in the region of Western Thrace.[1] After the Balkan Wars and World War I the demography of the region was changed. While groups such as the Turks and Bulgarians decreased, the Greek population increased by the resettlement of ten thousands of Greek refugees from other areas of the Ottoman Empire, after the flight of the Greek refugees from Asia Minor, as a result of the Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922) and the subsequent population exchange between Greece and Turkey.[2] Of all Greek Asia Minor refugees (578,824 individuals), 31% of them were resettled in Western Thrace.[3] The Greek government's reason to settle the refugees in this region was to strengthen the Greek presence in the newly acquired provinces and the homogenization of the population.[3] The Greek government especially resettled the refugees in Komotini, Xanthi and Sapes regions where the majority of Muslim Turks lived.[3]
General Distribution of Population in Western Thrace in 1923, presented by the Greek delegation in Laussane (after the relocation of Asia Minor refugees)[3] | ||||||||
Districts | Total | Total Greeks | Local Greeks | Relocated Greek refugees | Turks | Bulgarians | Jews | Armenians |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Komotini | 104,108 | 45,516 | 11,386 | 33,770 | 50,081 | 6,609 | 1,112 | 1,183 |
Alexandroupolis | 38,553 | 26,856 | 9,228 | 17,518 | 2,705 | 9,102 | - | |
Soufli | 32,299 | 25,758 | 11,517 | 14,211 | 5,454 | 1,117 | - | - |
Xanthi | 64,744 | 36,859 | 18,249 | 18,613 | 27,882 | - | - | |
Didymoteicho | 34,621 | 31,408 | 21,759 | 9,649 | 3,213 | - | - | - |
Orestiada | 39,386 | 33,764 | 22,087 | 11,677 | 6,072 | - | - | - |
Total | 314,235 | 199,664 (63,5%) | 94,226 (30,0%) | 105,438 (33,6%) | 95,407 (30,4%) | 16,828 (5,4%) | 1,112 (0,4%) | 1,183 (0,4%) |
References
- ^ Huseyinoglu, Ali (2012). "The Development of Minority Education at the South-easternmost Corner of the EU: The Case of Muslim Turks in Western Thrace, Greece" (PDF). University of Sussex. pp. 121–122. Retrieved 2 May 2013.
- ^ Pentzopoulos, Dimitri (2002). The Balkan exchange of minorities and its impact on Greece ([2. impr.]. ed.). London: Hurst. p. 11. ISBN 9781850657026.
led directly to the flight of the Greek refugges from Asia Minor, the compulsory exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey
- ^ a b c d Huseyinoglu, Ali (2012). "The Development of Minority Education at the South-easte rnmost Corner of the EU: The Case of Muslim Turks in Western Thrace, Greece" (PDF). University of Sussex. p. 123. Retrieved 2 May 2013.
"strategically located", redux
About this [1] edit: Personally, I am still very far from convinced the verbiage about "strategically located at the crossroads" should be there in the first place. But if we must have it, can we please at least not start trying to bolster it up with that ugliest of bad wiki-habits, overciting? Any phrase inside a sentence that has more than two footnotes in a row is always a certain giveaway there have been POV warriors at work somehow.
If this phrase means something concrete and tangible, then this (seemingly) very simple statement of fact ought to be able to stand even without footnotes, as its truth ought to be self-evident. The problem, as I see it, is just this: it's not clear at all what it is supposed to mean, and this vagueness is what gives it that apparent "peacock" quality that many readers (me included) have felt to be there. Seriously, a question to those who are in favour of inclusion: what exactly does the phrase "strategically located at the crossroads of Europe, Asia and Africa" actually mean, to you? And, if you can explain what it means: do you really think the point is important enough that it must stand right at the beginning of that lead paragraph? Please note that all these questions are quite independent of whether we can find "reliable sources" that have said something like it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:54, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
- Please, spare us the cheap theatrics. I have seen this method at work before: Step 1. Use a loud edit-summary accusing an editor by name of something fictitious:
sorry, Dr.K., but can we please not start this kind of horrible over-citing?
, so as to elevate your own editing skills. Step 2. Open up a discussion section where you compound the assault initiated by the edit-summary by accusing the target editor, or at least insinuating, that he is a "POV-warrior". Sorry, but I won't play this game. But first, let me disabuse you of these fallacies. First, I am fully cognisant of the fact that at the lead one does not add citations, because they should already be at the body of the article. Second, despite your exaggerations, two (2) references do not make for your horribly overinflated description in your edit-summary ofhorrible over-citing
. Third, I only added these citations to help that IP who kept reverting understand that the term "strategic" is supported by RS. Sometimes, these IP editors don't understand the nuances of WP:LEAD, so I tried to help that guy along. Finally, your commentPlease note that all these questions are quite independent of whether we can find "reliable sources" that have said something like it.
is wrong. We go by what RS call the geographic location of Greece. It is not up to us to invent terms. If books and other RS call Greece's position "strategic", then that's where the buck stops. Any other approach as your commentIf this phrase means something concrete and tangible, then this (seemingly) very simple statement of fact ought to be able to stand even without footnotes, as its truth ought to be self-evident.
suggests is WP:OR. We are not after WP:TRUTH here. We are after WP:RS and WP:V. But I think you knew this all along. Dr. K. 17:22, 5 June 2017 (UTC) - P.S. Please don't use loud edit-summaries where, as you know, the target editor cannot respond. This is not a fair way to edit. Dr. K. 17:33, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
Reverting
My edits were reverted despite me giving a source. This is puffery. I can't even talk to the person who reverted changes.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.223.27.63 (talk • contribs)
- First, you deleted sourced information about the very high Human Development Index of Greece. This is considered blanking and it is vandalism. Second, unemployment data does not belong at the WP:LEAD of a country article. This article is about the country, not its unemployment rate which can change and is ephemeral compared to the time-scale of the country facts. See also WP:RECENTISM and WP:NOTNEWS. Dr. K. 15:09, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
Very well, but from the description in the lead, Greece seems to be an ideal country and it is not. Plus the Greek crisis isnt even mentioned in the history part in the lead and it is an important aspect of 21st century Greece
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