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The page itself with few exceptions, and especially the introduction treats the blood libels as a purely European phenomenon. While it may have started in Europe, there are certainly a plethora of cases that occurred in the Arab world. While the Damascus Affair is mentioned, I suggest the wording of the 1st paragraph is changed and a record of incedents of Blood Libel from the Arab world be added as a section. [[User:Eframgoldberg|Eframgoldberg]] ([[User talk:Eframgoldberg|talk]]) 16:19, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
The page itself with few exceptions, and especially the introduction treats the blood libels as a purely European phenomenon. While it may have started in Europe, there are certainly a plethora of cases that occurred in the Arab world. While the Damascus Affair is mentioned, I suggest the wording of the 1st paragraph is changed and a record of incedents of Blood Libel from the Arab world be added as a section. [[User:Eframgoldberg|Eframgoldberg]] ([[User talk:Eframgoldberg|talk]]) 16:19, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
:for nearly 1000 years it was in europe it only entered the muslim world in the last couple hundred years and the damascus blood libel was partly incited by the french consul.[[User:AmYisroelChai|עם ישראל חי]] ([[User talk:AmYisroelChai|talk]]) 19:19, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
:for nearly 1000 years it was in europe it only entered the muslim world in the last couple hundred years and the damascus blood libel was partly incited by the french consul.[[User:AmYisroelChai|עם ישראל חי]] ([[User talk:AmYisroelChai|talk]]) 19:19, 19 March 2018 (UTC)


I noticed the History section says that "The earliest versions of the accusation involved Jews crucifying Christian children..." then under the first subheading we find accounts of allegations made before the Christian era, that paragraph needs to edited or deleted to line up with facts presented in the "Possible precursors" subheading. There is, in general, more focus on dismissing the allegations then presenting history to examine how this started and spread. This emphasis encourages modern-day proponents of blood libel to lean towards conspiracy theories, imagine if in 50 years time it was reported that allegations of clerical abuse were brushed aside as anti-Catholic propaganda, focusing on Europe allows us to point to Hitler and hinders historical rather then apologetic coverage.


== External links modified ==
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Revision as of 07:17, 26 August 2018

The religion jump

Looking at [1] it seems that blood libel is now spread about Muslims as well. It's hardly surprising as many antisemitic myths are recirculated that way. The problem is where to fit it into the article. Any advice? // Liftarn (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 21:55, 2 January 2014

Precursors

There is interesting material in Bill Ellis. Aliens, Ghosts, and Cults. Univ. Press of Mississippi. p. 53 ff. ISBN 9781617030017.. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 17:38, 4 February 2015 (UTC).


Eurocentric Views

The page itself with few exceptions, and especially the introduction treats the blood libels as a purely European phenomenon. While it may have started in Europe, there are certainly a plethora of cases that occurred in the Arab world. While the Damascus Affair is mentioned, I suggest the wording of the 1st paragraph is changed and a record of incedents of Blood Libel from the Arab world be added as a section. Eframgoldberg (talk) 16:19, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

for nearly 1000 years it was in europe it only entered the muslim world in the last couple hundred years and the damascus blood libel was partly incited by the french consul.עם ישראל חי (talk) 19:19, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]


I noticed the History section says that "The earliest versions of the accusation involved Jews crucifying Christian children..." then under the first subheading we find accounts of allegations made before the Christian era, that paragraph needs to edited or deleted to line up with facts presented in the "Possible precursors" subheading. There is, in general, more focus on dismissing the allegations then presenting history to examine how this started and spread. This emphasis encourages modern-day proponents of blood libel to lean towards conspiracy theories, imagine if in 50 years time it was reported that allegations of clerical abuse were brushed aside as anti-Catholic propaganda, focusing on Europe allows us to point to Hitler and hinders historical rather then apologetic coverage.

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Unhelpful and Bad Faith Reversions

Why has there been a series of reversions to the edits made by 2604:2000:814B:B300:B53B:CAF6:6A26:9261 , reverted by registered users? The IP edit's seemed to be accurate and legitimate. Kosterortiizbrock (talk) 01:07, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Jews accusing Jews" for drinking blood.

I found a series of articles in the French "anti-masonic" paper "La Bastille" (1913-14) with the title "Les Juifs Frankistes accusent et convainquent les Juifs Talmudistes de se servir rituallement de sang chretien". It starts from the Dec. 20, 1913 issue [2] (p. 4) and continues in issues Dec. 27, 2013, Jan 10 and 17, 2014, with the Talmudist's reply on Jan 31, 2014. If i got it right, the article is a transcript of a discussion between these two Jewish sects in 1759. "Frankists" was a Jewish sect formed by a Polish Jew in early 18th c. The artice cites some bibliography and claims to be a translation from a rare Polish or Russian book. If anybody is interested, can read those articles and inform us if the are of any encyclopaedic merit. At least I see some linguistically interesting points there.--Skylax30 (talk) 21:51, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Eucharist connection

Anthropologically speaking the origin of the eucharist itself and the belief in transubstantiation in some way ties into Solomonic apocryphal texts that talk about using literal blood in a proto-eucharist. See "cakes of light" in thelema and the apocryphal text "sefer haraziem". Efforts need to be made to in some way create a nuanced presentation that is fair to the Jewish people and not accusatory, but at the same time explores these connections which scholars in western esoteric philosophy think are self-evident. There is no mention of magic, magical texts, or Solomon on this page. That need to happen but it has to be presented in a way that it will not be misinterpreted or taken out of context. True context need to be given to it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.91.185.169 (talk) 09:14, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong Democritus

The Democritus who wrote Maxims was the 5th Century Pre-Socratic atomist philosopher. Only fragments survive. Josephus's Contra Apion makes no mention of Democritus. He's probably has nothing to do with it, and "Maxims" also has nothing to do with it; it is a false identification by inaccuracy of David Patterson who quote Joshua Trachtenberg's book, The Devil and the Jews: The Medieval Conception of the Jew and Its Relation to Modern Antisemitism, p. 126, who take as reference the work of Theodore Reinach: Textes d'auteurs grecs et romains relatifs au judaïsme. The Jewish Encyclopedia has this to say:Similar in import is the following statement of a certain Democritus, which the Greek lexicographer Suidas (tenth century) has preserved: "Every seven years the Jews catch a stranger, whom they offer as a sacrifice, killing him by tearing his flesh into shreds" (0151τι κατὰ έπταετίαν ξένων άγρεόοντες προσέφερον καί κατὰ λεπτὰ τὰς σάρκας διέξαινον καί οὓτως ἀνῄρουν). Nothing further is known of Democritus. Perhaps he drew his information from Apion's book.--Gustavo Rubén (talk) 11:18, 28 May 2018 (UTC) My edition was reversed, however I want to specify: David Patterson's book is inaccurate also his source Trachtenberg. They attributed the quote to Democritus, the pre-Socratic philosopher of the 5th Century, and his lost book Maxims. This is incorrect. The quote is actually some later character also named Democritus, in a lost book called "On the Jews." We only know about this attribution because the 10th century Suda refers to it. The same story of human sacrifice appears in Josephus, Contra Apion, Book Two, but that book makes no reference to either of the Democrituses. Josephus is apparently quoting Apion, who may be quoting Democritus "the historian," but if so, it isn't cited by Apion or Josephus. So, no "blood libel" was known to exist to pre-Socratic Greek philosophers. The "blood libel" legend can be definitively traced only to the First Century CE via Apion and Josephus, who may be drawing on a slightly earlier Greek writer named Democritus. The Jewish Encyclopaedia points out: "In the polemic of Josephus against the Alexandrian grammarian Apion ... the latter is charged with having accused the Jews of annually fattening a Greek in the Temple, killing him, offering his body as a sacrifice, eating of his internal organs, and swearing an oath of enmity against all Greeks... Similar in import is the following statement of a certain Democritus, which the Greek lexicographer Suidas (tenth century) has preserved: "Every seven years the Jews catch a stranger, whom they offer as a sacrifice, killing him by tearing his flesh into shreds" (0151τι κατὰ έπταετίαν ξένων άγρεόοντες προσέφερον καί κατὰ λεπτὰ τὰς σάρκας διέξαινον καί οὓτως ἀνῄρουν). Nothing further is known of Democritus. Perhaps he drew his information from Apion's book."--Gustavo Rubén (talk) 18:23, 28 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Gustavo Rubén raises a good point. Patterson describes Democritus as "the first anti-Semite to invoke a blood libel", but he is contradicted by Richard Gottheil, Hermann L. Strack, and Joseph Jacobs, who wrote that it was a different Democritus, whose work is lost and is only known because it was cited by tenth-century lexicographer Suidas. They suggest Democritus may have drawn on Apion. While we can't be expected to judge who Democritus was, we should at a minimum note that the sources disagree on this point. Unless somebody knows whether scholarship has resolved this question. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 00:08, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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