User talk:-sche

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Welcome to Wikipedia, -sche! Thank you for your contributions. I am Cirt and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Wikipedia:Questions or type {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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— Cirt (talk) 07:16, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Why, hello! It seems we've now welcomed each other to our respective wikis-of-origin. Nice! (I don't often sign in to WP, but I'm citing manita.) -sche (talk) 19:45, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Archive

• User talk:-sche/Archive 1
• User talk:-sche/Archive 2
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Barnstar

		The Copyeditor's Barnstar
		I want to thank you for all your hard work you did in 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict‎ -- Shrike (talk) 05:38, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Oh, thank you! :)
If only the questions about content / POV were as easy to resolve as the <ref> duplication, lol. -sche (talk) 05:54, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:LiSA (Japanese musician, born 1987)

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:LiSA (Japanese musician, born 1987). Legobot (talk) 04:23, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, -sche. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

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Please comment on Talk:Josephine Butler

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Josephine Butler. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Seth MacFarlane

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Seth MacFarlane. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Indigenous articles

Please, please, please - could you post on the talk page of the Two Spirit article before you go making substantial changes regarding gender that have colonial influences while using dominant culture terminology that is not applicable? You are creating a huge amount of work for indigenous editors. It's incredibly frustrating. Indigenous girl (talk) 20:46, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. You are making huge mistakes here. I've cleaned up a bunch, but at this point I'm going to just go back to reverting. You are adding "sources" that are just a title and a year, without even an author name, let alone publication data. This is a 101 level of WP policy violation as editors can't even check those sources. Other "sources" by non-Natives that you've added do not even source the content you've added. This has been a problem with almost every one of these sections. I agree with Iggy that you are relying on colonial views and voices, and this is totally skewing the content. It is also undue weight to plop these huge sections into Indigenous articles without any attempt to integrate them into the existing content of the article, and without any understanding of the cultures you are trying to write about. Please read the Two Spirit article again, more carefully. We've really worked to explain why this type of approach is a huge problem. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 21:26, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry; I appreciate you taking so much time to go over the concerns with some of the sources and terms, and revise most of the articles. If I make any more edits to this area, I'll be more careful about sourcing.

The two sentences in the Crow Nation article which cover this topic also have the same issues, as a result of my having edited it years ago (I think, aside from the articles I recently edited which you two have helped clean up, it is the only other article, aside from the one about the specific person Osh-Tisch, to which I recall adding info about two-spirits), including citing Williams and Lang, but I know Joe Medicine Crow has written/spoken about the topic, so I've removed Williams and Lang now, and I'll try to revise the [one remaining] sentence based on Medicine Crow as soon as I'm able (unless one of you or someone else beats me to it).

For the Mohave article, what do you think of this as a sentence to add to the ==Culture== section, perhaps right after its mention of Devereux and his extensive fieldwork, or perhaps elsewhere (e.g. a lower-down subsection if that seems more appropriate):

Devereux reported that the Mohave historically had initiation rituals for men, women, alyha (male-bodied individuals who, as early as childhood, adopted the same clothing and work as women), and hwame (female-bodied individuals who adopted the clothing and role of men).

? Or do you have suggestions for improvement?

G. Devereux, Institutional Homosexuality of the Mohave Indians, Human Biology 9 (1937), pages 498-627

-sche (talk) 22:17, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm dealing with pneumonia right now. Devereux is actually one of the few early anthropologists that are decent. He fully immersed himself in Mohave culture. It might be good for you to read this in it's entirety http://via.library.depaul.edu/jwgl/vol2/iss1/3/ it goes into why applying standard terms as you simply does not work and is not culturally accurate. Indigenous girl (talk) 16:06, 14 February 2018 (UTC) Indigenous girl (talk) 16:06, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Joseph Stalin

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Joseph Stalin. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Granulomatosis with polyangiitis

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Please comment on Talk:Sean Hannity

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Discretionary sanctions alert

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The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding the English Wikipedia Manual of Style and article titles policy, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

Template:Z33 Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:13, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

You're experienced to know this already, but a reminder that edit warring is not permitted. Instead start a discussion on the talk about about the issue and try to resolve it through discussion. Continuing to edit war may lead to a block. Thanks, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:23, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Mass killings under Communist regimes

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Mass killings under Communist regimes. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Incel murder count

moved to Talk:Incel

Please comment on Help talk:IPA/English

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Help talk:IPA/English. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you!

I have expressed my gratitude in small ways before, but after looking at your distinctive history of contributions, I wanted to explicitly say, "Thank you," for all the work you have put into editing Trans woman and other articles. I appreciate the multifaceted approach you have taken to making Wikipedia better! -- Marie Paradox (talk | contribs) 18:27, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:List of Major League Baseball players from South Korea

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:List of Major League Baseball players from South Korea. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Name changes in publications

Hi, since you reverted me here ([1]), please point me to the thread you mentioned - I'm not aware of it. What I am aware of, and that is established professional bibliographic practise when citing publications, is to use the name used in the publication (in order to adjust to the target medium some leeway is typically allowed in regard to if full or abbreviated forenames are used). If a new edition under a different name exists, that new edition can be cited instead, otherwise the old name sticks with the old publication. This is also what WP:SAYWHERE is about. History cannot be changed. It is possible to cross-link new and old names in catalogs so that old publications continue to show up after a name change, but this doesn't change the name used in citations of old works. Also, in cases where it might be helpful to readers it is possible to mention the new name as well. I wonder how you come to think I would be trying to change established practise. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 04:22, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Both now and when you said in the edit summary of your change to WP:MOS that that's what SAYWHERE said, I re-read that guideline to see if I was missing something, because I don't see anything in it about name changes. By my reading, it's about citing the work you read and not a different work that attributed what it said, in-text, to the first one. If SAYWHERE did talk about name changes, why would it be necessary to duplicate it in the MOS, anyway? Are people commonly trying to change authors' names and citing the MOS? -sche (talk) 01:22, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

As you correctly point out, WP:SAYWHERE is about citing the work in front of the editor, not a reference to that work somewhere else. This includes actually or potentially existing newer versions of the same work as well. This is actually a common problem in Wikipedia, where editors are citing from an older version of a book in their possession with bibliographic data derived from a different or newer edition of the work found online, instead of using the data from the book itself. (If they refer to the same edition, it is okay to add extra info like DOIs etc., but not to replace info found in the actual publication.) Over the years I have seen quite many cases, where this resulted in wrong page numbers, ISBNs, publishers and journal names given, but sometimes also in wrong author names (due to spelling errors in citing refs, but then carried on into other works) and creatively modified titles. This is harmful, as these references are basically void, as they cannot be reliably tracked down to actual physically existing publications.

As I said, there is some leeway in regard to providing full or abbreviated names, but substituting a name with a different one is a no-go, just as the publisher or journal name does not get updated in a citation in cases where the publisher or journal changes its name. This would make it difficult to locate the actual publication (which does not suddenly change its front face as published retrospectively) in a library. Basically you would be citing a source which does not exist (under that name and configuration). (In the publisher/journal name change example, if they would offer the publication under their new name, that is the equivalent to a reprint/republication - a different edition, hence no problem.)

What is typically appreciated in such cases is a courtesy note following the citation mentioning the new name, so that interested readers will be able to connect titles published under the old and the new name, but I understand that in cases where the name change isn't the result of a marriage etc. but of some kind of gender change, an author might rather not like to have both names mentioned next to each other to not unnecessarily draw attention to the fact (that's the "context" bit in WP:GENDERID, which suggests a case-by-case decision - about such extra info, not about "silently" substituting names in citations, that is). But that's among the more or less normal cruelties of life everyone has to face and master in one way or another, and unfortunately there's no remedy to the underlying problem: A fundamental principle of the act of publishing something is that it cannot be revoked ever - it becomes part of history as is - with all the shortcomings it might contain and implications it might create. (It is possible to update errors or changes in a newer edition (which will then be cited as a different publication), make a work no longer accessible, or even to destroy it, but this does not (legally) change its "published" status, only its availability.) The author is always responsible for the publication, so if the author does not want to become connected with a work now or in the future, the only way to possibly do it is to not out a name change anywhere (unreliable), try to publish it anonymously, or not publish at all.

WP:GENDERID is a very new guideline and still imperfect. As such the present text could, by omission of a note regarding the case we are discussing right now, be interpreted in a way to allow name changes in citations, which however would violate WP:SAYWHERE; that's why I added the link for clarification (as is common practise in MOS in order to reduce ambiguity). Obviously, you would like to have old names substituted by new names in citations, otherwise you would not be against that clarifying link (but if that would have community consensus, it would have to be mentioned as an exception under WP:SAYWHERE, which it isn't). I, on the other hand, want to have it mentioned at WP:GENDERID in order to make sure that WP:GENDERID cannot be used as excuse for such name substituations in citations (unless an updated publication can be found, where the new name is used - see above).

Since you didn't provide a link to the thread you mentioned I searched myself and this appears to be the one in question, right? Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons#The conflict between deadnaming and ABOUTSELF, versus VERIFIABILTY and previous RfCs. It isn't exactly the same topic, but related, one user wants to be referred to by the user's new name only even in the context of an old event, and the community doesn't support this, as this would be an attempt to rewrite the history of that old event.

--Matthiaspaul (talk) 05:49, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Lionel Messi

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Lionel Messi. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Emma Sulkowicz

hi there. you will need to get a talkpage consensus for the recreation of that after it was previously redirected after discussion, thanks Govindaharihari (talk) 19:03, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi there! I did, as noted in my edit summary with a link to the discussion. If that's insufficient, well, then let's have more discussion! Cheers! -sche (talk) 19:05, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

• I will comment there, thanks Govindaharihari (talk) 19:06, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

We need your input! Request for Comment - Including China's stance on Hamas

Your name was found on Feedback request service Politics, government, and law. Please join the discussion here and give your needed opinion on whether to include China's position concerning Hamas. Thanks! Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 16:27, 6 September 2018 (UTC)