Talk:John Eastman

External links modified

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Removal of board affiliations

The section on board affiliations was removed by user:Drmies on the basis that it was 'just resume padding' and required secondary sourcing. I disagree.

First, board affiliations have broader political significance; the Federalist Society has been highly influential in judicial selection during the Trump administration, and Prof. Eastman's chairship of a practice group therein is not merely a status marker or honorary title but suggests influence on policy direction for that society's membership. Readers can make significant inferences about Prof Eastman's political affiliations and activity from this and other board memberships; I did so when I consulted his bio the other day, and I was startled to discover the information had been removed when I returned to check this morning.

Second, board memberships are binary matters of fact rather than assertions or opinions, and fall within the guidelines for Wikipedia:Identifying_and_using_primary_sources. The institutional and diverse nature of the source data (as opposed to, say, a single resume page on a personal website) strengthen the case for its inclusion.

Because many readers will be reviewing Prof Eastman's biography pursuant to his controversial article about the citizenship of Kamala Harris, and because Prof Eastman's extracurricular activity involves participation in multiple political advocacy organizations of national scope and notability, the deleted information provides important context and these edits should be reverted.

--Anigbrowl (talk) 15:39, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

• Anigbrowl, thank you for placing the note here. It is a bit of a wordy note, but in it I see a meaningful word: "suggest". Yes, it "suggests" influence, but putting suggestive words in Wikipedia articles is not what we should do. The answer is really very, very simple: find reliable secondary sources that verify the basic facts (and prove them noteworthy: "prove", not "suggest"), and better yet, sources that prove said suggested influence. Now, you say "board memberships are binary matters of fact", etc., and I am pleasantly surprised at the impressive knowledge of Wikipedia policy you have as a new editor, but what those guidelines indicate is that sometimes primary sources will suffice for verification: they do not state that they are sufficient arguments for inclusion. That remains a matter of editorial judgement. If it were otherwise, every single board membership, club membership, high school badminton record, swimming diploma would be worth mentioning as long as we can get a primary source to verify it. It would trivialize biographies and turn them into resumes. We cannot have that.

  So, I suggest you search around for reliable, secondary sources that not only verify the information, but also prove it noteworthy--lest we write suggestive innuendo in BLP territory. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 16:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Using primary sources for Eastman's board affiliations is fine, although not ideal. That doesn't mean we should include an exhaustive list, but noteworthy ones like NOM should definitely be included. It's verifiable to a secondary source anyway.[1] - MrX 🖋 17:18, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

MrX, how to determine what is "noteworthy" is always a delicate matter, and leaving it to secondary sources is always preferable. You know what businessmanfluffvanispam looks like. Anyway, thanks for the ref. Drmies (talk) 17:54, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

• Drmies, I am not calling for the placement of suggestive words in the article, but for the retention of factual information whose relevance is easy to demonstrate. The Federalist Society, National Organization for Marriage and Public Interest Legal Foundation are all national organizations of long standing, all engage in political advocacy, and Prof. Eastman holds formal positions of responsibility (per chairperson and non-executive director) within all three organizations. Thus, Prof. Eastmen's relationship to those organizations is functional rather than honorary. All three are sufficiently notable to have their own comprehensive entries, two of which independently mention Prof. Eastman. In the case of the Public Interest Legal Foundation, that organization's allegations of civic ineligibility for voters have a direct substantive nexus to the recently added 'conspiracy theory' section in Prof. Eastman's entry. Another institutional affiliation, the Claremont Institute, likewise provides relevant context for readers interested in learning more about Prof. Eastman and likewise mentions him in its own entry.

  I understand your worries about the inclusion of badminton scores and swimming diplomas and think the omission of his affiliation with a local school and a county legal society to be no great loss. Still, current board memberships are categorically different from scholastic sporting endeavors, and I am surprised you would conflate them. The institutional examples cited above each have a direct and substantive connection to the subject's professional field, are each well established and notable in their own right for political influence or advocacy at a national level, and exhibit robust and consistent ideological positions. Three bases of relevance should be sufficient grounds for inclusion of a fact. As noted, Wikipedia entries for 3 of the 4 institutions refer back to Prof. Eastman's entry, and it seems reasonable to think that readers interested enough to visit his article from one of those entries would prefer not find themselves at a dead end with no signpost to his other affiliations. It is of course up to the reader to weigh the significance of such factual details. Thanks for taking time to consider my admittedly wordy arguments. --Anigbrowl (talk) 20:09, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

  • Anigbrowl, I think your time is better spent in the way MrX spent it--finding reliable sources to prove these things that you say are important. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 20:42, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

LEDE

Is poor. The current two sentences: one says he's a law professor, and the other says he's a professor of law. This is redundant information.

I suggest reserving footnotes for body of article, which lede should briefly summarize.

Suggest: John C. Eastman is the Henry Salvatori is a Chapman University law professor. His two petitions the U.S. Supreme Court were turned away. Eastman is also notable as a Republican politician and commentator, having sought unsuccessfully sought a U.S. congressional seat representing California, as well as separately, the office of California Attorney General.

Better than: "John C. Eastman (born April 21, 1960)[citation needed] is an American law professor. He is the Henry Salvatori Professor of Law & Community Service and former dean at the Chapman University School of Law.[1]"

Also, I do think his affiliations may be relevant (not in lede).

2600:1702:39A0:3720:E0BA:3366:CDC0:E188 (talk) 21:49, 15 August 2020 (UTC)