Talk:Hurricane Delta

Protect this page

Vandals are attacking this page. Protect it. 71.172.254.114 (talk) 20:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Hey User:LightandDark2000 and User:ChessEric I see you guys blocked the vandal but why you guys also block me to I'm editing? I was trying to do good things! 71.172.254.114 (talk) 20:27, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

That was actually an administrator, not me. Sorry, but that vandal was IP hopping (he already used two separate IPs), so the Semi-Protection was necessary. And since they are much too wide to be covered by a rangeblock, the only way to ensure that the vandalism stopped for good was a Semi-Protection. The protection was not meant to target editors like you, but unfortunately, that is a side effect of actions like this. It will automatically expire in 3 days. If you register with an account, you will be able to edit articles with this level of protection after you reach autoconfirmed status. Alternatively, you can suggest what edits you want made here, and we'll be more than happy to implement them for you. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 20:32, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

@Destroyeraa and LightandDark2000: The vandal that was messing with this page is clearly not done yet as they went on two talk pages and vandalized them using another IP address. Therefore, I'm requesting that there be an extension of the protection on this page until we know for sure that this mess is over because I will absolutely not stand for another 20 minute edit war with this maniac.ChessEric (talk · contribs) 18:24, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I haven't seen the person come back to this page. You sure it was the same person? Only other activity I saw was a bogus block appeal. TornadoLGS (talk) 18:54, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

@TornadoLGS: No doubt. Look here.

Class

How can this not be at least C class? It's a fairly long article that's well-referenced. Jim Michael (talk) 14:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

The impact section is less than impressive. There needs to be more information about Mexico, Cuba, and the United States. In addition, Delta should make landfall soon which should add more impacts. A rush of addition of impacts will mean lesser-quality writing. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:13, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Peak intensity

I was hoping this wouldn't happen because it was going to be annoying to add in, but it has, so I'm going to lay it out.

Delta reached a peak 3 different times. The first was when it reached Category 4 intensity (130 mph; 954 mb). The second came shortly after the first (145 mph; 956 mb). The final came this morning (120 mph; 953 mb). How do we list this in the article? I'm not going to act like I know how right now.ChessEric (talk · contribs) 16:46, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

We usually go by peak wind speed. It's the same deal as with Hurricane Sandy, which had its maximum winds and lowest pressure on different dates. TornadoLGS (talk) 16:53, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

The lowest pressure is officially the peak intensity, since the intensity of a TC is based on its pressure. In this case, the pictures of peak intensity all have a blob of a system that is ugly and small. The one with the lowest pressure actually has an eye. Per WP:WPTC/S, we don't always have to put the peak intensity as the picture. An important stage in the TC's lifespan, such as landfall, lowest pressure, the best "looks" (eye formation) also is fine. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 18:09, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

An also, the NHC redacted its peak intensity on the besttrack, and the peak intensity is now 120 kt (140 mph). ~ Destroyeraa🌀 18:10, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

In any case, we list both the maximum winds and the lowest pressure for the peak, even if they dad different time. Again, see Hurricane Sandy. TornadoLGS (talk) 18:25, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that is true TornadoLGS. I was mistaken, I was thinking about the image in the infobox. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 18:29, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

We usually go by minimum central pressure when referring to the storm's peak intensity. But given this storm's unique behavior (including the mismatch between the intervals with maximum winds and lowest pressure), I think it would be well worth mentioning each of the storm's 3 peaks in the lead. As for the main infobox image, I personally prefer the image of the 3rd peak - it looks better and the storm is at its lowest recorded pressure at that point. We have no hardline policy regarding the main images, but even following WPTC precedent, Delta is not a clear-cut case. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 20:24, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

As @LightandDark2000: said, we should mention all three peaks, since a Delta is such an unique storm. I do feel that the NHC will revise the peak intensity, as they already did on the BT (it was downgraded to 120 kt, 140 mph, but protocol requires us to follow the advisories until the TCR comes out). However, as the storm isn’t done now, it’s a bit too soon for us to put it. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

If we go by peak pressure rather than peak wind speed, then why does Hurricane Sandy's infobox image show it at peak wind speed? Is it because it was going through extratropical transition at that peak? TornadoLGS (talk) 18:02, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

No, that was Sandy's actual peak. Sandy's minimum pressure of 940 mbars also coincided with the time at which it reached Category 2 intensity, a pattern that is typical of most tropical cyclones. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 21:09, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

The TCR for Sandy shows peak wind speed on October 25 at 100 knots with pressure at 954 mbar. The 940 mbar pressure was on October 29 when winds were 80 knots. The page satellite image shows it at the earlier peak. So, either that image should be changed, or we can show Delta at its initial 120-knot peak. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:44, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Well, we don't have a hard requirement here to do either in the case of such mismatches. And Sandy was undergoing extratropical transition when it reached its peak (as measured by pressure), which is probably one of the reasons why the October 29 image wasn't used. And I see an inconsistency in the Sandy article. I'm going to have to correct that. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 21:54, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Keep in mind, if we use peak intensity by pressure in the images here, that has many loopholes. One, Delta reached Category 4 intensity, yet we are showing an image of it while it a Category 3 hurricane, which is rather misleading. Two, Matthew's image of peak intensity is while it is at Category 5 intensity, yet the storm reached its minimum pressure as a Category 4 hurricane. Same can go for Sandy, which was a Category 1 hurricane when it reached its peak intensity, yet it was a Category 3 hurricane at its initial peak, and the image rightly used is where Sandy is a Category 3 hurricane in the Caribbean. I think that we should give this storm the Sandy treatment, because the general public considered Delta at its peak in the Caribbean, as it weakened and struck Louisiana in the gulf, because the general public doesn't care about minimum pressure whatsoever. They care about the winds and what damage it causes. Therefore, since this is an encyclopedia, I believe that we should be using Delta's peak intensity image as its wind speeds, and not the image of it at Category 3 strength, due to how misleading and confusing it is. HurricaneGonzalo | Talk | Contribs 13:54, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

@HurricaneGonzalo: The initial "peak" of Delta is a trash image that has no eye and isn't clear. The new peak is a better image with an eye and has a lower pressure. Also, the NHC redacted its peak intensity of 125 kt (145 mph) and instead put a new PI of 120 kt (140 mph). The Sandy treatment won't be used because Sandy was an ugly half-extratropical cyclone at the 940 mbar peak. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:32, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

@MarioProtIV: The only reason Sandy didn't get its 940 mbar peak put down because that image was ugly and not representative of the storm. On the other hand, the 953 mbar peak of Delta is arguably the best image we have of the storm - an eye, outflow, lowest pressure, etc. The 956 mbar/140 mph peak image is of low quality and has no eye feature. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 15:17, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

@Destroyeraa: There are several problems with your argument. The main one is that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not to be edited with opinions, but rather facts. The image of the storm currently is misleading. And, so? Delta was 140 mph...which is still Cat 4. HurricaneGonzalo | Talk | Contribs 15:33, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Destroyeraa. Sandy and Matthew had eyes at their peak winds, but Delta showed ZERO signs of a visible eye when it had winds of 145 mph. Therefore, I don't like displaying that peak image of Delta despite the fact that the hurricane was 13 mph short of Category 5 intensity there. I'm more willing to display the image of it when it was barely a major, BUT with a clean, well-formed visible eye with an eyewall. It would give the wrong impression if we put the other image because that is not the common appearance of an intense hurricane and lay people may get confused when they see it.ChessEric (talk · contribs) 15:34, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Actually, Delta did have a hint of an eye feature at its wind peak, and as TornadoLGS said, we typically use wind speed peak when it comes to images. Not appearance. HurricaneGonzalo | Talk | Contribs 15:35, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Typically does not mean always. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 15:38, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Well, obviously. But keep in mind, the general public does not care about a storm's appearance. They heard that Delta was a "dangerous, Category 4 hurricane in the Caribbean", so they are going to expect to see a dangerous, Category 4 hurricane in the Caribbean when they find an image of it, not a reorganizing Category 3 in the Gulf of Mexico. HurricaneGonzalo | Talk | Contribs 15:40, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Hint of an eye and eye are to different things. Also, if you want to talk about always showing peaks, look at Hurricane Michelle and Hurricane Nicole (2016), storms with images that were (a)showing peaks at minimum pressures and (b)showing a pic well after peak.ChessEric (talk · contribs) 15:41, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

As I have now said multiple times, not a single person in the general public cares about the appearance of a storm. HurricaneGonzalo | Talk | Contribs 15:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Nominated for ITN

@Robloxsupersuperhappyface, ChessEric, Sausius, and Elijahandskip: Feel free to chip in and give in your two cents.~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

I feel the ITN caption should be “After causing havoc in the resort city of Cancun, Hurricane Delta moves ashore in Louisiana as a Category 2 hurricane causing widespread destruction.” Robloxsupersuperhappyface (talk) 23:40, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Regardless, I think putting Delta ITN would be a great idea. Robloxsupersuperhappyface (talk) 23:40, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

That's too dramatic. You don't need the "havoc" part.ChessEric (talk · contribs) 23:42, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

@ChessEric and Robloxsupersuperhappyface: Feel free to put your opinions on the ITN page. Also, removed the "havoc" and replaced with "heavy damage".~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:43, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Well havoc is a little too dramatic but mention the trapping of many tourists in the region. Robloxsupersuperhappyface (talk) 23:45, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

If you want to discuss the blurb, please do so at WP:In the news/Candidates#Hurricane Delta Robloxsupersuperhappyface and ChessEric. Thanks. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:50, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

@Destroyeraa: Oh. Sorry. Didn't know. LOL!

Requesting Edit

I would like to request an change to be made to Delta's article as it states that Delta was the first Greek named system to make landfall on the U.S in the "Records" section, although Beta was actually the first Greek named tropical cyclone to make landfall on the U.S, which is stated in its own article. Im just requesting an edit so that any readers that will read this aren't misinformed and become confused.WarDestroyer88 (talk)WarDestroyer88) — Preceding unsigned comment added by WarDestroyer88 (talk • contribs) 00:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done ~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:21, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Delta Landfall

I’ve noticed that the article says first Greek storm to make landfall on the us. In fact it’s the second, beta was the first Greek to hit us. Although it is the first Greek hurricane landfall on us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.18.109.93 (talk) 06:18, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done ~ Destroyeraa🌀 13:33, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Huh? --67.85.37.186 (talk) 23:04, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

The aforementioned statement is no longer in the article; it was/is a trivial fact, not a record. Drdpw (talk) 00:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Arkansas

If Arkansas is significantly affected, the article should mention it. Jim Michael (talk) 14:56, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

@Jim Michael: Damage reports are on the way. How about you go and find some, and add them to the article, if you have time. Thanks! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 15:11, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Effects in Louisiana article

Once they find the damage, we should make an article for affects in Louisiana if severe. The storm struck as a category 2 and whizzed through the state. --67.85.37.186 (talk) 01:12, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Currently not enough information and deaths auto warrant an article. Maybe as the storm reports come out, we shall consider. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:41, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2020

In Meteorological history, please change {{convert|145|mph|abbr=on}} to 145 mph (230 km/h). We didn't use convert since it is unable to round off to the nearest 5. 219.78.190.20 (talk) 03:19, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done The convert template does have a rounding feature, which does allow for rounding to the nearest 5. It doesn't work properly in this case, though, since both values are converted from knots. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:49, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Template:convert can be set to round off numbers. Presently, the template's "round" parameter is set to "5" and the visible text reads: 145 mph (235 km/h). Cheers. Drdpw (talk) 04:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

I changed to the requested value, since the official wind speed was posted as 125 knots, which rounds to 230 km/h. TornadoLGS (talk) 04:06, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2020 (2)

Record section: tying the record set in 2002. 182.239.85.76 (talk) 12:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done ~ Thanks for catching this. Drdpw (talk) 12:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2020

"In Destin, Florida, a 19-year-old tourist drowned, while another was rescued after they were caught in a rip current produced by Hurricane Delta."

Why does the rescued person need to be mentioned? Please replace it with "In Destin, Florida, a 19-year-old tourist drowned in a hurricane-produced rip current." 2601:5C6:8081:35C0:4041:6EC3:563B:B7A9 (talk) 12:36, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done The rescued person is mentioned because water rescues are important too, and it adds to the impacts. We don't always need to put deaths. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 16:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Deaths

Can someone input a table with the deaths incurred by Delta. As far as I can read there is only 5 deaths in the Impact sections but the introduction claims 6 deaths, two of them by rip current (?)

Pierre cb (talk) 23:07, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

@Pierre cb: As far as I know, two died due to rip currents, one died in Mexico due to preparations, another died in Mexico due to being swept away. Two people died in Louisiana due to CO poisoning and a fire. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:29, 13 October 2020 (UTC)