Talk:Karlsruhe

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Bad translation?

This is a very BAD translation of the original ( de:Karlsruhe )!! [fixed wikisyntax]

So says someone who writes "eingemeindet" in the English article text.

However, I agree with him that it isn't useful to mention that the Marktplatz was named Adolf-Hitler-Platz for some time. In each German town you can find lengthy cadastre files documenting the renaming of representative places and streets in the 30s and renaming them back in 1945.

--Ikar.us 22:07, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Removed some (not so) "Famous People"

I removed Shluchim Yitzchok Steinmetz and Levi Emmer from Famous People as there is no indication given of what they are supposed to be famous for and they are not in Wikipedia (en). I also checked and they are not in the german de:Karlsruhe page (nor the list of honored citizens nor the list of sons and daughters of Karlsruhe there). Ruhrfisch 15:10, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Population, Airport/Airpark?

It is a bit strange that the population is (a bit) different in the English and German version (due to different sources!?). Furthermore, the distance to Baden Airpark (is it really "park" or "port"? in the German version Baden-Airport is written!) is 30 km in the English version and ~45 km in the German version. Does translation shorten the distance?

>> do Ryanair fly there? (-: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.3.255.103 (talk) 11:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edgar; June, 09, 2006 12:36

There are different population sources listed (English is from the state of Baden-Wurt., German is from the city of Karlsruhe). I would follow the German version here, but if you follow their link to their source it is also a different (lower) number than what is in the article!

I will change the distance to 45 km. FYI, the "Baden Airpark" is the whole former Canadian Air Force base, a part of which is the "Baden Airport". German WP has articles on both Baden Airpark and Baden Airport, English WP seems to just have an article on Baden Airpark. I would stay with Airpark, will try to clarify that too. Ruhrfisch 15:42, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Founding legend?

I'm surprised the article makes no mention of the (probably apocryphal) story how Karlsruhe go its name. I checked the German version which mentions it but doesn't give a source. You'd think this should be amply covered in local histories. ~ trialsanderrors 16:27, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's simple, really. Kalrsuhe is literally "Karl's rest," as it was somewhat of a vacation town for Karl, hence the city being built around his palace. Is there an apocryphal story with an alternate explanation? --BDD 15:44, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Karlsruhe and the Holocaust: CleanupConfusing tag

I have attempted to clean up the "Karlsruhe and the Holocaust" subsection which contained some grammatical errors and one or two unclear or misleading choices of words. I have not done a fact check, but I think that a fact check would be a good idea here because it was not completely clear to me what the original author intended. The German version of this article is a little thin on stuff about the Holocaust unfortunately. Ireneshusband 18:54, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Does "to the east" mean to Poland, to Eastern Europe or to Bavaria? Ireneshusband 19:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the coverage of the jewish community and of the Holocaust is disproportionate for such a small article about a city. The facts covered are usual for a german city of that time, and none of the other numerous religious minorities are even mentioned. I'm in favor of reducing the two sections to a sentence or two within 'History'. 91.89.7.28 04:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

'I don't agree for German reasons', and I think we should add this part of Karlruhe's history over here in Germany too:

"To the East", always signals towards the camps. Although in Baden a huge later transport went to France first and only from there to Auschwitz. Since my mother is from Karlsruhe and told me when I was eight or nine how her girl friends had suddenly disappeared from school, and that the Synagogues burnt in 1938, when she was ten, I was really pleased that Karlruhe did a good job in publishing extensive studies both of the Nazi period and a history of the Jewish community up to 1933. According to the Karlruhe's city archives online blurb, [1], it published both studies, the main influence for research already in the sixties was a Karlruhe major, Guenther Klotz. These people were very rare in the sixties over, most tried to forget and pretend they had not known - the cloak of silence. But in Karlruhe they seemed to have not only reached out to survivors but also to emigrants, making many interviews. In the book about the Nazi period you can trace every person, for many you'll find photos from the city's archive. So the author of the study, the journalist Joseph Werner, had a huge store of informations he could build his work on, and add new reseach and interviews to. Even if some papers seem to have disappeared. [2] [These things still happen.]

We of cause have the lists of the dead listed for every German cities, we Germans are bureaucrats, so you bet we wrote this down, but before these Karlsruhe publications, I had never seen a book were you can trace every single survivor's fate. So my mother found out, that one of her girl friends, who was the daughter of the doctor of my mother's family, had emigrated to the States. Also her second girl friend survived, but she was less lucky, since she lost her father. And this my mother did not remember, strictly she wasn't Jewish at all, since her mother was German and only her father was Jewish German. The couple had divorced, the girl's mother had surrendered to the pressure from the Nazis. The only chance for the man to survive, would have been that his wife would have stood firm by his side, trying to hide him somewhere as she seemed to have hidden her children. It would have been only slightly more risk. But who knows, maybe she knew nobody who would have. ... The father did not survive he was sent to the East, to the camps.

So I don't think, that part should be smaller, and it is an important part of our history. I am baffled that I find nothing about this in Germany.But given a little more time, I may take a closer look at both. Karlsruhe has a memorial for the dead too, with all the names, I believe. Sorry I am tired and I give up proofreading now. LeaNder 20:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is an offical memorial: Gedenkbuch für die Karlsruher Juden (in German only) and there are several Stolpersteine, see Karlsruhe:Stolpersteine (only in German).

I did no statistics, but "to the east" sounds misleading, many died in Gurs. --Kawana 10:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No they didn't. They were brought from Gurs to Sobibor, Treblinka, and Auschwitz.

And really, the Stolpersteine are becoming an annoyance to Karlsruhers for a couple of reasons.

In any case, the section about Judaism and the holocaust is disproportionally large and ought to be shortened significantly. ♆ CUSH ♆ 19:39, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Maps available

There's a CC-BY-SA 2.0 map you might like on OpenStreetMap. Ojw 18:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox German Location

Please introduce the Infobox German Location with image. It provides a coherent look among German cities. Lear 21 23:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish Community

I think the other communities (muslims, ...)should also be listed here.On the German page, all communites are listed equally and by the while: The section about the Holocaust and the jewish community makes up about 10% of the whole page. When you take a look at other pages of cities from europe where jews have lived, you'll reaslize that there is no mention of them in most cases.Johnny2323 (talk) 05:18, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I guess most people in Karlsruhe do not even know there is a Jewish community in Karlsruhe, except for seeing the hanukkah (the one in the photo) once a year which everybody ignores because it is opposite the pizza place of the Karlsruhe christmas market.

Maybe the section should be reduced to a few sentences. ♆ CUSH ♆

Karlsruhe Military Academy

An American Civil War general, Franz Sigel, graduated from Karlsruhe Military Academy. There seems to be no mention of it here at all. Student7 (talk) 02:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who was the planner?

Since the plan for Karlsruhe is still very apparent today, long after the start in 1715, who was the planner? Did the Margrave himself do it, or was someone hired? I have been to Karlsruhe twice, and it is a beautiful city with an excellent street plan, so the planner should get credit for the accomplishment. --DThomsen8 (talk) 01:59, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

University

As of 2009, the university of Karlsruhe no longer exists. It has been transformed (including the "Forschungszentrum") into "Karlsruhe Institute of Technology" (KIT). --Denis 17:31, 6 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.42.141.236 (talk)

L'Enfant

I can't find any documents or letters on consource.org, that mention him, nor is there a letter from Thomas Jefferson to George Washington (there is not even a letter from April 10, 1791)! --greip (talk) 20:05, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

model for Washington, D.C.?!?

"It has been speculated that Karlsruhe was a model for Washington, D.C. as both cities have a centre from which the streets radiate outward.[4]"

Who dreamt this up? Washington, D.C., is a town conceived at a time when no-one outside the Grand Duchy of Baden had ever heard of the provincial town of Karlsruhe. Claiming any influence of the latter on the former capital city is plainly grotesque, and if the sole source cited here is a rather dubious book by a (local) spare-time "historian", then I would strongly recommend to delete this entire statement! 95.208.10.203 (talk) 20:44, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's a dubious statement and should be removed unless a better source is found, but this hyperbole was not necessary.

I don't think that nobody outside Baden had heard of Karlsruhe. Founding new cities in the heart of Europe was by no means a normal activity in the 18th century that the international press would have ignored.

During his time as Minister to France, Thomas Jefferson studied European architecture and the political system of the Holy Roman Empire. In 1788 he visited Karlsruhe, in 1789 he returned to the US, and L'Enfant's plan of the new capital is dated 1791. I guess this (non-)connection is the origin of the story. There may in fact have been some inspiration, though the city plans are obviously quite different.

Still, the lead should describe Karlsruhe rather than a conjectural connection to another city. Hans Adler 21:55, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The source, which credits Jefferson, is here. Another source noting the similarity doesn't suggest this.[[3] More mention of Jefferson in some sources.[4]

Pronunciation of the name

After "correcting" the IPA in the pronunciation of the city's name, I discovered that the same thing had been done and undone before, i.e. changing between [kals...] and [kaʁls...]. So it's maybe useful to highlight this problem on the talk page. I tested a few youtube clips and heard that locals indeed pronounce the name of the city as [kals...] (like the audiofile on the page). However, their dialect omits the "r" in other positions, too, so it's still the question whether this counts as the standard pronunciation (you don't use local dialectal names of geographical items anywhere else, do you). However, in German an "r" in this position is difficult to hear and easily elided anyway (and for English speakers the whole problem may sound completely artificial...). As a native speaker of German, I am sure I have always pronounced the "r", but then, this may be the moment in which I discover that I am influenced by a Bavarian dialect (heavy on r's). Anyway, I thought the problem should be documented to prevent more needless changing... --Alazon (talk) 01:22, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article ought to cite the correct German pronunciation. The dialect version may be an extra, but has more differences than the one you focus on here. --Sitacuisses (talk) 05:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I was raising the very question of what the correct pronunciation really is, which you seem to take for granted. As I considered above, a pronunciation with r may well be a dialectal one. One thing that can certainly be agreed on: the audiofile is not to blame, it represents a typical native pronunciation. And it is beyond any doubt that this one is to be transcribed as [kals...] --Alazon (talk) 10:23, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

and since the IPA is being re-reverted while I am typing this... dear colleague sitacuisses: your IPA-rendering does not match the audiofile. --Alazon (talk) 10:28, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The audio file does not represent a typical native pronunciation! The speaker's first contribution is Bochum, there are many other files with names from all over Germany, but many of them are from the Ruhr region, and that's where I suspect him to come from. He's neither a native speaker from Karlsruhe nor does he speak perfect Hochdeutsch. --Sitacuisses (talk) 11:37, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's at least a very normal pronunciation; on the German discussion page I have shown attestations from German TV newsshows. The IPA installed by my respected colleague, however, is utterly unrealistic - you'd be afraid if you really had to listen to it :) -- This is a discussion abouth whether "standard" is a norm imposed on speakers or whether it's the empirically attested usage. It's up to en-wikipedia to decide what they want here ... --Alazon (talk) 11:49, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There are lots of "very normal pronunciations", so I don't understand what's your point. Petra Gerster's (professional presenter) pronunciation is better than the Commons file: [5] --Sitacuisses (talk) 12:14, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"better" of cours means "suits your ideas" :-) And phonetically, I am quite sure there's no r-consonant in her pronunciation but just a less frontal [a]. Let's simply stop this discussion, English readers must have had enough by now... --Alazon (talk) 13:12, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Main Sites Section

The 'Main Sites' section's 3 cites-needed refs.have been researched,and indeed,the claims made in the wanting section are sorely bogus. Rewrite? I would,but,apart from now knowing the 3 superlatives were wishful at best,I know nothing of Karlsruhe.Bjhodge8 (talk) 15:47, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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When was the city called Carlsruhe?

I was not able to find any source for this, neither in the German version nor in search result.

Typically, German words start with K instead of C. -- Mr. L (Talk / Contrib) 09:00, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hospitals

The Paracelsus Hospital did close since 2018-02-28 See: https://ka.stadtwiki.net/Paracelsus-Klinik But there is also a Hospital for cardiosurgery See: https://ka.stadtwiki.net/Klinik_f%C3%BCr_Herzchirurgie — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:E8:472E:D300:A4F2:33A1:5AF7:7E96 (talk) 23:58, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Alter Friedhof (Karlsruhe)

Seauton I believe you made a small mistake by inserting this category [6] into the text. The text refers to the main cemetery of Karlsruhe (Haupfriedhof) the category you inserted though is about the old cemetery (Alter Friedhof) which is not in use anymore … they are situated in different parts of the town.--Catflap08 (talk) 08:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC) I'm sure you are correct. Thank you for pointing this out. I have removed the link for Alter Friedhof and replaced it with the link for Hauptfriedhof.[reply]

Resolved

Seauton (talk) 23:17, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No problem wasn't am major issue anyway, Thanks.--Catflap08 (talk) 17:18, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Size / Size ranking

Mannheim is also described as the second largest city in Baden-Würtemberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim

In terms of number of inhabitants both cities are approximately the same size. One year one of them is the second largest city in Baden-Württemberg, next year it is the other. This may also be due to the varying number of students registered as residents at the respective registration office. --Catflap08 (talk) 07:49, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]