Talk:Vaush

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Sourcing

I’d like to preface this by saying that I still think this article is a bad idea, but perhaps recent events have lead to more consistent sourcing to prove notability. However, I still believe the sources in this article rely too heavily on controversy (specifically the one regarding pride), which I worry might give the article a tabloid-esque slant. For the record I do think some of the criticisms are absolutely reasonable, but a heavy emphasis on them in the article without more broad information could be interpreted as a hit piece. Paragon Deku (talk) 20:33, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Still not notable

I still don't think that Vaush is notable, sorry. I don't see any recent sources that give significant coverage of Vaush.Jackattack1597 (talk) 23:30, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, seeing the same problem. And most of the sources present do not deal with the subject directly, only mentioning them in passing. Eik Corell (talk) 16:45, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Vaush's name

I don't know Vaush's name. And I still don't because this article doesn't include it. --162.193.95.222 (talk) 19:59, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

From WP:BLPPRIVACY: With identity theft a serious ongoing concern, many people regard their full names and dates of birth as private. Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object to the details being made public.

Vaush's name has not been widely published in reliable sources. In fact, almost all the sources we have don't publish his name at all. Alduin2000 (talk) 21:28, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Vaush has openly given his name and it can be assumed that he does not object to the details being made public. SWinxy (talk) 01:57, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SWinxy: Do you have a link? Alduin2000 (talk) 15:56, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

New support for his relevance

Where we are today I think there is a clear argument for Vaush's relevance.

First of all, there is a valid concern that not having an article on him would be a form of bias, as many of his contemporaries like Destiny and Hasan Piker have their own articles, and by numbers Vaush is one of the largest left-wing streamers, behind only the previously mentioned Hasan, so in terms of leftist politics he is absolutely relevant.

Vaush appeared at the freer future fest as a speaker, and on their Speakers page he is listed placed right behind Destiny and right before presidential candidate Jo Jorgensen. Yahoo finance covered the event and referred to him as a famous streamer

Just today, Tim Pool referred to Vaush and Piker as two of the most prominent progressive personalities on the internet. This was while covering the twitch ban of the two, and several other news sources have mentioned Vaush in the same breath as Piker while covering this as well. Once again, Hasan Piker has his own article and news coverage seems to see them as similar in importance.

Also of note is that Vaush had a very high-profile debate with one of the internet's largest right-wing media personalities, Charlie Kirk (activist) on Tim Pool's showhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fan

I feel like the decision that he isn't relevant was correct earlier this year but especially in the last couple of months Vaush's profile has risen significantly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheBotSO (talk • contribs) 21:06, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Potential vandalism problems?

Vaush is a controversial and contentious figure online. It hasn't even been two days since the article was approved, and we've already had one vandalism, which, admittedly, isn't a whole lot, and in fact, could have been a lot worse. I can see the page getting bogged down in editing wars and aforementioned vandalism and allegations and accusations and whatnot. I'm thinking we should probably semi-protect the page, at least? He has a fairly notable anti-fanbase, which I could see being a problem for this page, what with it being a BLP and all.

If we can't get this page semi-protected (to protect it from vandalism), may I suggest at least making sure every editor is aware of WP:GRAPEVINE and WP:LIBEL? — Sqwyd (talk) 15:35, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

yeah lock it, sorry about that, i couldnt resist — Preceding unsigned comment added by RifTaf (talk • contribs) 19:15, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Surprisingly, it was hours before the article was first vandalized, and even this vandalism is quite minor. I emailed him last night and literally asked him to not tell his audience about this page... and yet he did ;w;. I'd wait until the people who dislike him start vandalizing before going to WP:RFP. SWinxy (talk) 19:29, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just ban User:Mouthyinfadel from editing, simple as. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nintenfreak (talk • contribs) 21:46, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

None of my additions have been vandalism in the slightest. Every addition I've made has been sourced, repairing broken English on the page, or removing clear bias. MouthyInfidel (talk) 22:44, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind showing some examples of your edits removing clear bias? Sqwyd (talk) 01:46, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind utilizing the view history feature and looking at the ones labeled "removed bias" by MouthyInfidel? 68.184.136.115 (talk) 22:20, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why has any mention of history with sexual harassment been erased? Seems incredibly like a pro-Vaush article. Whatisanapple (talk) 17:56, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As this is a biography of a living person, Wikipedia has fairly stringent rules on what can and cannot be added to such a page. I strongly recommend checking WP:BLPPUBLIC and nearby sections in particular. Of particular note:

If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article—even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it. If you cannot find multiple reliable third-party sources documenting the allegation or incident, leave it out.

Chaonautical (talk) 18:52, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Are you kidding? Seriously? It is not just an "allegation" and it is verified by even the subject HIMSELF. Give me a fucking break. 184.145.63.76 (talk) 20:35, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If it fits the level of documentation required per WP:BLPPUBLIC, then feel free to collect multiple, reliable, third-party sources documenting the incident and write it up. If the citations are good and the text fits the rest of the WP:BLP guidelines, it should stay up. Chaonautical (talk) 20:54, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strange undos for statements unfavorable to Vaush.

After citing a video in which Vaush says he's a communist in one of the additions to this page, and adding "Communist" to his list of political views, it was removed by 9563rj without the user reviewing the source linked. Here it is: Video on YouTube

Good idea to keep this page locked, since it seems like pro-Vaush bias was extreme beforehand.

You timestamped said video to a portion where he is simply stating that immigration is good. If he claims that he is a communist, please timestamp to the proper place in the video. 9563rj (talk) 22:39, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Generally secondary sources are preferred on Wikipedia. Primary sources are not necessarily reliable and/or notable enough for inclusion. Alduin2000 (talk) 22:41, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The part where he says "As a communist I want people to be better off" was included within 2 minutes of the original timestamp, and within seconds of the one linked here, 9563rj. You didn't do your due diligence, in the slightest, before removing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MouthyInfidel (talk • contribs) 22:43, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing a several hour long video with the intended portion to view minutes away from a timestamp able to jump to any specific second is incredibly lazy sourcing. Forgive me for the assumption that that was either intentionally misleading or claiming that pro-immigration is communism. 9563rj (talk) 22:50, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Protip: Open up the transcript for the video on youtube, type "ctrl-f communist" and look at approximately the timestamped portion if 90 seconds of watchtime is too long for you. MouthyInfidel (talk) 23:23, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say it's ambiguous whether such edits are pro-Vaush or not. Vaush is a rather contentious figure in the online left, and many people who identify with the label "Communist" would not like him associated with themselves. Plus, given that he's part of the online left, and that Vaush has previously identified as a communist, I doubt his community would consider the label "unfavorable" ThereIsNoEllie (talk) 11:51, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Vaush's content is not "aimed at young white men"

The line at the top of the article states that vaush's content is aimed at young white men. This information is incorrect, and does not appear in any of the cited referenced. Furthermore it is directly contradicted by a paragraph further down which states:

 Kochinski has aimed to create an inclusive community and has comparatively high proportions of women, and gay and trans people in his audience.

This is the correct information, and is supported by citation 4. --852derek852 (talk) 00:44, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The source is the Independent article. Maybe the wording can be changed so that it doesn't imply that he aims his content solely at young white men, but I think that the type of content he makes (more edgy than other leftist content creators) has absolutely been geared towards young men (and this is backed up in the sources), and I think this is an important aspect of his channel that should be reflected in the lead. Perhaps Kochinski opposes the online right, and has attempted to deradicalize young white men from the alt-right by utilizing techniques widespread in the left-wing BreadTube community whilst maintaining an inclusive community. is better? What do you think 852derek852, and what do other editors think? Alduin2000 (talk) 00:59, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I actually purchased a subscription to the independent for this. The quote about "insecure white men" refers to the audience of streaming platforms such as youtube and twitch, not Vaush's audience. It is also directly contradicted by this quote from the article:

"One consistent criticism put to streamers is that the majority of their audience tend to be male. This reflects the nature of the platforms’ demographics: 62 per cent of YouTube viewers are male, 65 per cent of Twitch. Vaush recognizes this and wants to change it: “I think I do relatively well with incorporation of women. Which I’m proud of because I am a very shouty man, and I do appeal to masculine tendencies … but I have a lot of trans viewers, a lot of them are gay. You can tell this from polling and from the memes that come out of my community. I’m proud of this because something that characterizes the online right is an absolute abject cruelty to trans people.”

I do appreciate the work you (Alduin2000) have put into this article, just want to make sure all of the information is correct--852derek852 (talk) 01:15, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Brain fart moment Alduin2000 yes, your rephrased version is good--852derek852 (talk) 01:19, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

April Fools'

I believe we should edit the article to state that Vaush lives in Vaushington State for April Fools... Okay, I will see myself out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AdalwinAmillion (talk • contribs) 10:16, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Vaush Pronounciation

User:Alduin2000 made a great point about removing the weird pronunciations for the word Vaush, I have since added the correct one. However, joke pronunciations such as /vaʊʃ/ or /vuːʃ/ have, while being incorrect from Vaush's standpoint and used as a joke, become pretty common when referring to him. Shouldn't we still offer those as alternatives in the article? AdalwinAmillion (talk) 09:33, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]