Talk:Cunt/Archive 1

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Missing Rhyming Slang

A couple of meathods of reffering to someone as a cunt, in britain at least are missing. I suggest the following be added: - Imannuel Kant, in the for of "you bloody Immanuel!" - King Cnut. Not rhyming slang, but the king's name is used quite often as an allusion to "Cunt". 87.194.7.55 23:32, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Lots of missing sources, is this mostly opinion?

The article claims that cunt is more offensive when it is used to refer to a body part then it is when it is used to refer to a person. There is no source for this claim and it seems totally made up. Ask a woman about her cunt, and you are likely to get a raised eyebrow and a sigh. Call a woman a cunt, and you are likely to get slapped. 65.125.163.221 10:53, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a source for that? Lou Sander 12:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

No I don't have a source just personal experience, but the point is that the contrary claim made in the article is also unsourced. Per Wiki policy I think the article should just limit itself to stating that "cunt" is offensive to many, and not attempt to specify ewhich use is worse65.125.163.221 07:11, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

You've got a good point. (I forgot the smiley after my previous comment -- Sorry.) I'll try to work on what you say. As you might imagine, there really aren't many "legitimate" sources on this subject. There's a book or two, mostly from the feminist viewpoint, and lots of naughty sources. The article attracts vandals, too, and some of what they put in here might not be detected as vandalism. I'll try to get one of the books, but I'm dreading my interaction with the librarian. ;-) Lou Sander 12:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

relevance to an encyclopedia

wikipedia is not a dictionary. how is this relevent to an encyclopedia? Kingturtle 22:51 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

Aside from the novel of the same name, the usage of such a word is relevant to many topics, such as sexual slang and vulgarity, both of which are valuable subjects in a comprehensive encyclopedia. The entry for cunt is more than simply a dictionary entry. --Dante Alighieri 22:15 19 May 2003 (UTC)

Plus, it's fun to write about. Wahkeenah 16:35, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree, actually. Whilst some of the history of the word can be interesting/encyclopedian, all the examples just make it look like the person(s) writing this just want a reason to say "cunt" as much as posible. Shamess 11:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

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The Oxford English Dictionary does not cite any Latin cognate of this word and in fact states that beyond its cognates in the Germanic languages, its "ulterior relations are uncertain". The relationship with Latin cunnus therefore appears to be guesswork (even if it is guesswork by a feminist academic) and not linguistic fact. Rjp_uk 14:21 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Webster, on the other hand, cites cunnus only and not the Germanic cognates.

I think the OED is somewhat more authoritative.

If its Latin cognate were "cunnus", it would begin with an h-sound, because of Grimm's law. The similarity of sound between "cunt" and "cunnus" is coincidental.

Why?

I dont understand why this word is some major terrible word, it refers to the vagina, but if you call someone a "vagina" or "twinkle" or "fanny" or some other word meaning the same thing, it is not seen as remotely near as offensive. I just dont understand how one single word can notoriously be some majorly bad word when its just a word, one of many referring to something normal. Its the same with other words, why is "fuck" more vulgar than "screw" ? They mean the same thing! Its silly really! TR_Wolf

Because language doesn't function that way. The precise meaning of a word is not really any clue to its intensity as an insult. "Fucker" for example is quite insulting, and yet it simply means someone who indulges in sexual intercourse, ie everyone.Bobble2 18:36, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Isnt there supposed to be some link to the word "cunning" and an argument suggesting its to do with men seeing women as untrustworthy (vaguely recalling a feminist on tv) Ps in the UK, there is the phrase "oh ya cunt!" as an exclamation of surprise or shock and though its not encouraged, I dont think its thought of as badly as when you refer to somebody in particular as one:}80.192.59.202 03:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Well everyone except me. Ba-dum-bum. The reason we have different words for things is because they mean different things. We can say that the Innuit have 1000 words for snow, but really they're not all equivalent. Same here. Pussy has a particular set of meanings when referring to a whole person, as does cunt. That said, is the level of offense taken ordinate? Not for me to say. I know that I can't even call my flipping water pump a cunt without severe repercussions resulting in the situation outlined in my first sentence.208.114.132.151 18:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

equivalency

Somewhere it should be mentioned that the equivalent word for the main male sexual organ ("prick") has not nearly the taboo attached to it the way "cunt" has

• i'd say the word "cock" is more the equivalent of the word "cunt".Gringo300 04:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• I disagree completely - I don't think that there is a male alternative. dick, cock, tail, prick knob, etc. aren't used in polite conversation, but aren't very offensive at all. There is no word for the male sex organ that carries the same connotations, revulsion and taboo-ness (I know it isn't a word) as cunt for females. Saccerzd 12:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

• I think yer right, Sac. It takes a certain amount of balls (so to speak) for a woman to use the word "cock" when talking with a man or men. It takes at least ten times that amount for a man to use the word "cunt" when talking with a woman or women. (At least here in the U.S.) Lou Sander 13:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

There's really no exact equivalent for the simple reason that the original meaning of "cunt" was "cunt", whereas cock, prick etc all originally had other non-sexual meanings, and still retain those meanings. They were adopted as euphemisms, comic analogies etc. In that respect they are similar to "pussy". The word "penis", adopted from Latin, has the same semi-clinical connotations as vagina and vulva. Even the original English word for penis, which was "yard", had other meanings, and is now hardly anyone even knows that it once had a sexual meaning. In this respect "cunt" is unique. Paul B 21:06, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

This reminds me of George Carlin's (semi-facetious) observation that the word "twat" is special because it is the only term for the female genitalia in the English language that does not have some other meaning. However, it could be argued that "twat" is sometimes used as a derogatory reference to a person in the same sense that "cunt" is (though without quite the strength of connotation or intent to shock) and that thus the observation is flawed. --Nonstopdrivel 12:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

It would help if the authors here would mention where they are living, this would help explain why there are differences in opinions on these words. Here in canada (northern Ontario)the words dick, cock, prick and knob are about the same in offensiveness as pussy. I can talk about pussy with a woman depending in how the word is used as with the male equivalents. In conversations, women have told me that they don't want to hear the "c" word in any circumstances implying it to be the most offensive word, even to speak of another person who i might refer to as a cunt. The word tail is used to refer to sex, IE: "get some tail" AKA "get some ass" AKA "get laid" AKA "get lucky", meaning to get sex. KGP 12:10 13 Jan 2007.

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It says this at the moment: "One of the first persons to use the word on British television was the ITN news reader Trevor MacDonald, who accidentally mispronounced Kent." er - so - he didn't say it, did he? - he mispronounced Kent, which is not "saying cunt" by any strecth of the imagination. It may be interesting to quote who did say it, but this isn't it. I am removing it. 82.35.17.203 21:20, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Ah, like the famous "blowjo--block party" slip-up by the anchor on Fox News a few years ago? --Nonstopdrivel 12:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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I don't wanna add this info yet, but I've heard somewhere that cunt is considered to be the most offensive word in the English language, can anyone confirm? Obli 18:42, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It's certainly widely considered that way in British English, from my experience. — OwenBlacker 20:30, Aug 17, 2004 (UTC)

That's true - if you call someone a cunt to their face there's no two ways of interpreting it! Adambisset

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{{source}}

Yeah, right. 67.113.2.180 20:29, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

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When Twelfth night is quoted....shouldn't it be Cs &c. instead of C's &c.?

Cunt can be considered as a term of endearment in the UK? I've never heard that, and I lived there for 13 years. Is it just a regional thing? Chewyman 21:49, 13 Oct 2004 (NZT)

Nah - there's no way you'd call someone a cunt as a term of endearment! "John, ya wee cunt! How're you doing pal?" - wouldn't work!! Adambisset 00:30, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

No, you can. I've done it. That's how it was used on Sex and the City, I believe the line was "I'll miss you, you cunt", as said between two friends. Obviously you would only use it in very impolite circumstances. Foolish Mortal 23:02, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

And between friends with a very particular kind of understanding. --Nonstopdrivel 12:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Cunt is definately a term of endearment in the UK. It is regularly used as an effectionate term of abuse amongst close friends. Tone of voice and inflection are vital to differentiate from abuse. 62.3.70.68 20:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

The most frequent use as an endearment I have encountered in the UK has been "you daft cunt". However, this can also be used malevolently. Nickorando 22:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

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"The last genuinely unprintable word". Genuinely unprintable where? In North America? At least two major, serious British newspapers (The Guardian and The Independent) have printed this word on numerous occasions. The word appeared in British newspapers for the first time in the late 1980s. ---

I completely disagree with what this article says, suggesting that the word is less offensive in the UK. It is the most offensive word you could possibly say here! Definitely taboo as much here as in the US.

Thats nonsense, racist words are far more offensive. Ive heard "ya cunt" "ya wee cunt", "ya stupid cunt", "ya cunt faced prick" and other variants used between friends and whenever tony blair is explaining his latest thoughts on my tv screen80.192.59.202 04:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Latin is not a romance language

Latin is not a romance language according to romance language.

"similar-sounding Romance language words such as the Latin"

I think it's important to maintain the highest standards of scholarship so Wikipedia may maintain a positive public image, especially in this case since this article may be the only one the majority of people ever look at. 64.160.47.239 12:35, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• latin is an ITALIC language.

Gringo300 04:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Yup, the Romance languages descend from Latin, which is itself descended from Italic which is descended from Proto-Indo European. An Siarach

"Latin, vagina, originally a Roman slang term meaning, 'scabbard.'""

I believe it is incorrect to call it a slang term. In high school Latin class, where we read only the Aeneid for 2 years, "vagina" just means sheath, as the normal term.

Liber IV (thanks to gutenberg.org)
... Dixit, vaginaque eripit ensem
fulmineum, strictoque ferit retinacula ferro.

... He said, and his scabbard delivered forth his flashing sword, he struck the cable with sharp iron.

from The New College Latin and Englsh Dict. by Traupman 1966: "vagina f sheath, scabbard; sheath (of ear of grain), hull, husk; vagina"

Surely if it's in the Aeneid, the Roman state myth, it's the most correct linguistic paradigm, not slang.

I hope this note, and all consuming interest in the topic of this Wikipedia article, will encourage multitudinous thousands of high students to study the language of the greatest empire, whose influence remains pervasive; as I write, I use their letters. 67.113.2.180 20:22, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC) N.B. We just did this section in class today and yes it is worth learning latin jst for the teachers face.

The Latin word vagina does indeed simply mean "sheath"; it has counterparts in such fields as biology and botany, where words like "invaginate" refer to pouches in cell membranes and other such structures. The word penis means "tail"; I find the lack of correspondence between the terms of male and female genitalia somewhat odd. You would think anatomists would have called the male reproductive organ something like gladius (Latin for "sword"). It was once, after all, common in paintings to euphemistically depict sexual penetration with the metaphor of stabbing. Perhaps the anatomists deliberately wished to avoid such connotations and therefore chose an innoffensive word like "tail." --Nonstopdrivel 12:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

"It is an old and native English word" "It is a Germanic word"

"It is an old and native English word, replaced after the Norman Conquest by the Latin, vagina,..." "Cunt is an old Germanic word,..."

If it's Germanic, then it's not native English.

The Norman Conquest was 1066. The Romans conquered England a 1000 years previously. Wouldn't that add more plausibility to the etymological roots being in the Latin cunnus ?

I hope cunt scholars all over the world, with the help of government grants and the support of modern scientific networking and computer computations will be able to solve this important mystery. 64.160.47.72 20:46, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I don't understand what you're saying. the English are Anglo-Saxon, i.e Germanic - like their language, English. if you're talking about a "Native" language to the area of Britain known as England, then you might mean an ancient dialect of Welsh. Or some kind of pre-Celtic stone age language. The Welsh might be cunts, but I wouldn't know about cavemen. --81.134.54.129 21:07, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Removed this funnyness

Please do not use this word in Muslim countries, especially prefaced by the word for the woman who married your father, possessive case, unless you intent to start a jihad.

That's not all that funny, but anyway I believe it makes a good point: that in other cultures some language is a lot more extreme, to the point of being "fighting words". In would be unfortunate for a nonnative English speaker to use certain language with the abandon of Americans, in the wrong foreign country.64.168.30.47 09:17, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC) chut main bulla dalo

Etmologies

No idea why, in an encyclopedia, we have such a long quote on the etymology - the etymology of this word is no more interesting (in such cases, less) than that of thousands of other words in the encyclopedia.

Also, the article states that "The historical normality of Cunt can be shown by the existence of the River Kennet which derives its name from the same source." Do we have a source for this, please? The Popular Dictionary of English Places (A. D. Mills, Oxford University Press, 1991) says that "Kennet" is a Celtic name of doubtful origin. --Rjp08773 00:19, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I've certainly heard it said in several places that Kennet derived from Cunnit which is the same word as Cunt. It's mentioned in The Sun and The Serpent ISBN:, 0-9515183-1-3 and on http://www.matthewhunt.com/cunt.html http://www.searchword.org/cu/cunt.html and so on. I dunno if that counts as a source or not. Mjgd

On this subject, should we asterisk the PIE roots, since they're hypothetical? dmesg 20060710

fair point. Paul B 17:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Since this page gets vandalized a lot, let's try following the advice in Wikipedia:Troll#The value of slow reverts.

I'd like to point out that adding "James Blunt" as rhyming slang isn't vandalism, as the phrase has become fairly widely known - this is usually sufficient grounds for the OED to include entries, so I don't see why Wikipedia should be any different.

Explanation of Tony Sidaway's revert of edit by 213.113.222.226

"It has cognates in most Germanic languages, such as the Swedish and Norwegian kunta"

The italicized text above was removed. The edit label was "kunta" is not used in modern Swedish or Norwegian, and there is no evidence that it has ever been used with the same meaning as "cunt". In fact the note that the word is cognate with the word kunta implies neither. Perhaps it should be noted that kunta is not a modern Swedish or Norwegian word. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 21:38, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Question - for humans only?

The first sentence reads: "Cunt is an English term that refers to the human female genitals." Can someone confirm that it only refers to human genitals? Can cats or apes or other mammals not have cunts?

• i'm pretty sure that the females of many animal species have cunts.

Gringo300 04:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• And a pussy has a "pussy", too, but typically medical terms are used where animals are concerned, except possibly by those who practice animal "husbandry". Wahkeenah 16:39, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Anti-gay?

Isn't the term, when used against men, most often used against gay men, as an anti-gay slur?--67.123.232.156 00:41, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Then state that (provided, of course, that you can back it up). What I removed was the assertion that, when used against men (whether or not gay), it is always an anti-gay slur. Kelly Martin 05:16, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

• • I've never heard the word used as an anti-gay slur. In my experience living in Australia, UK and Ireland, the word is directed at men who act like arseholes x 1000.

• • Absolutely agree. Never heard it used as anti-gay. DJ Clayworth 15:48, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• • I don't think theres any evidence to state that it is 'most often used against gay men' --Freshko 20:35, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

More acceptable in the UK and Australia?

The only time i've ever heard this word used on mainstream television was on the tv show 'Sex and the City'. An american tv show.

In the south park movie they claim that the word 'Fuck' is the worst word you can say. I was brought up to believe cunt is the worst word you can say.

From this i've gained the impression that the word is more acceptable in the US than it is in the UK or Australia.

...An Ausssie

I totally agree and have edited, cunt is not an acceptable word in either US or Commonwealth countries -JDnCoke

"Sex in the City" is pay-per-view, which is very different from what's allowable on free to air in America, from my understanding. They beep out "bitch", and blur the finger on NBC. I find cunt is very acceptable in parts of Australia, and have worked in jobs where people pepper their conversation with the word and nobody bats an eyelid. In fact, there could be an expansion on other Austeralian slang, derived from cunt - cunthook and cunt-struck are words I've heard used in conversation that also appear in the Macquarie dictionary.

...Another Aussie I don't really know what the fuss is all about with the word "cunt". I have offen been called a cunt, or a cunt of a bloke, or told to fuck of you cunt,along with some of my work couluges,(RAAF). The thing is. Cunts are usefull, and if I was a Cunt, I'd be very well off. But of course I'm not, but I'd be proud to be a cunt, I reckon, I'd be a nice cunt, the sort every bloke or lesbos would swoon over.

I'd smell pretty every day and night, yes I saw that show, sex in the city, and I quite liked it, How about when the girls were having a glass of water at a out door cafe, and she said something to the effect of " I hope my cunt isn't as big as this glass of water, while looking at her girlfriend whom promptly through down her glass of water, while her girl friend continued about her boyfriend cock and wondering if eh polished because it was shiny. However I digress, in the end we couldn't live with out cunts, reglass on how they present them selves.

Hay this is ment to be just a bit of light humor, please don't take offence People

An Aussie Male

My impression is that it is most acceptable in Oz, fairly acceptable in the UK and really taboo in the Americas still. I've been called a cunt by friends and ive called friends cunts and ive heard the word used/ive used the word in fairly casual conversation. I dont see how we could really find reliable sources to back up any views on the scale of offensiveness tbh. An Siarach

I'm an American who spent a year studying in London in college and I watch a lot of British films and read British literature. I can vouch that "cunt" is much more offensive in the US than in the UK.

Compare this word to Laputa!

Ahh yeah, la puta... "the whore" in Spanish... LOL....quite a fucking cunt indeed. :) 165.230.149.169 22:48, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Selfish Cunts

There is band going by this name on the North east of England pub rock scene. Perhaps they deserve some kind of mention?

Contradiction

"North Americans generally find the word more offensive than the British and Australians; in Britain, unlike in America, "cunt" can be used as a jovial term of endearment in very limited specific contexts. Most Britons however do find the word extremely objectionable. In Britain, it is known as the worst swearword that can be said, and is rarely used."

The paragraph says that Britons don't find the word as offensive as North Americans, then goes on to say they think it's the worst swear. I'm assuming this should read "In North America, it is known as the worst..." P0per 03:36, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I noticed that contradiction as well, which is why I took that last sentence out a few hours before you posted this comment. :) Tverbeek 10:39, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• To the above I don't know where you got that idea from, cunt is a highly profan British swearword rate with 'fuck' et al. To any non-native english speaker I highly recommend that you do not use this word as a term of endearment. - JDnCoke

I think the distinction is that in Britain and Australia in general swearing is less taboo - or perhaps even that "taboo" things are more accepted. Americans are more uptight. --86.135.179.53 00:14, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

In certain areas of the UK saying "how ya doin ya cunt" is a perfectly acceptable greeting amogst (generally male) friends. It would not be used while your grandmother is in the room but it is certainly used as a friend;y greeting at times.

Normans and feminists

I have removed this sentence, which is not accurate:

"It was replaced after the Norman Conquest, in jargon but not in the common tongue, by the Latin vagina."

As the article itself indicates, it was not "replaced" at all - what "in jargon" means I don't know. No evidence is provided that the Norman Conquest had anything to do with the adoption of the word vagina in English. I rather doubt it. It emerges from the use of latin in medical discourse.

I've altered the feminist section because it confuses together two issues - the use of the word for female genitals and the use of the word as an instulting label for a person. It also inaccurately stated that male-genitals are not used in an equivalent insulting way. They certainly are in British English. Paul B 16:19, 3 July 2005

And they just as certainly aren't equivalent in American English. Although words like "dick" are used as insults, they are not at all equivalent in severity. If one were to respond to "you prick" with "you cunt", that would be a serious escalation in language. Heck, when I was a little kid, my (generally non-swearing) mother would occasionally call me a "prick" (when I deserved it); it's that mild. By contrast, I never even heard "cunt" until I was in high school. As noted in the article, "cunt" is a word you Just Don't Use in this country, and the contrast between being merely rude and being Unmentionable is what (by implication) makes a cunt so much "worse" than a cock. The counter-argument from "defenders" may be valid in on one context (Britain), but the original feminist criticism is based on another context (America) where it is not. P.S. "dick-head" is not a distinctly Brit-English term; "utter balls", on the other hand, is. Tverbeek 3 July 2005 23:24 (UTC)

My mother would certainly never have dreamed of calling anyone a "prick". Anyway, the feminist argument as it is presented here, remains problematic in both Britain and the US because it is simply a fact that words for male genitals are used to insult and demean, so the claim the "the lack of any comparable term for the male genitals demonstrates a profound cultural contempt, not only for females, but for their very femininity" is simply false. There are comparable terms. One can as easily say that "the use of prick/dick/balls/bollocks as insults "demonstrates a profound cultural contempt, not only for males, but for their very masculinity." The fact that such insult words are less taboo in some places than cunt could even be used to argue that it is more culturally acceptable in such cultures to denigrate maleness than femaleness. The Unmentionablity can be read as a sign of the "sacredness" of the Unmentionable matter, as with terms considered to be blasphemous.

For these reasons I'm leaving the argument as it stands, with some tweaks. Paul B 13:57, 6 July 2005

Too bad the counterargument you just fabricated out of thin air doesn't actually reflect the nature of the taboo. Claiming that "cunt" is taboo because it's considered sacred is stretching pretty far. You are adjusting the text to support your own POV and dismiss one you disagree with. And using the word "equivalent" in an almost Orwellian fashion. Tverbeek 6 July 2005 17:18 (UTC)

Of course it was "fabricated out of thin air". The alternative argument I was responding to was also "fabricated out of thin air". Where else do you think arguments come from? People create them. They are validated or falsified by reasoning and evidence. I note that you have provided neither to refute any of the points I made, just assertion. The example of blasphemy was intended to be an illustration of the point that words are deemed to be "offensive" to the extent that they violate people's feelings. What is offensive to one person will be innocuous to another. As for 'cunt', I'd suggest that the historical/psychological issues are probably complex, but the sacredness point is far from irrelevant. Female modesty and privacy has been important in many cultures. Female dress has been typically more elaborate in its paradoxical play on concealment and display than has male dress. Male nakedness has been less circumscribed than female nakedness in public contexts. In this respect one could argue that female genital nakedness in public is more "extreme" a violation of norms than the equivalent male display (think of the diference, for example, between male and female urination in public). This explanation seems to make more sense than the rather contradictory argument that is said in this article to be 'feminist' position.

The word "equivalent" was normal English-language usage. It is Orwellian only in a world of double-think. If male and female genital references are insulting in the same way and with the same meaning, then they are equivalent. If "you prick" and "you cunt" both mean something like "you worthless idiot" then they are equivalent. If the latter is thought to be more intense, then that does not change the meaning, only the emphasis. My most recent alterations were an honest attempt to reflect that in the light of your comments. I adjusted the text to conform with reasonable argument and NPOV, so that the article would express a balance of legitimate views. Paul B 00:08, 7 July 2005

Australian Usage

I am removing the section that states Australians use 'cunt' as generically or liberally as 'fuck' and so on. It is blatantly false, indeed absurd; the word is as offensive in Australia as the US or any of the other Commonwealth countries, and I cannot imagine even the most vulgar redneck saying "Could you pass me the cunt".

Fair enough, but it's difficult to know how to be accurate about this kind of thing. It's virtually impossible to know what colloquial usages are in all English speaking cultures, or even within all subcultures within ones own nation. Are you Australian? Paul B 11:32, 15 August 2005

I am and I can assure you that in Australia 'cunt' is considered, as has been noted already, "the worst swear word you can use". That doesn't mean to say it's not in common usage in certain circles. I use it myself occasionally, usually reserving it for inanimate objects that conspire to cause me grief, such as a wheel nut that wont budge or a brick that falls on my toe. If you call a person a cunt here, then you will certainly be expecting trouble to follow. SilentC 02:03, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Silent C, no disrepect, but you're a pretty silly cunt. I direct you to the Macquarie Dictionary book of slang: http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/anonymous@FFC64234139+0/-/p/dict/slang-c.html , definition 4. Cunt is a common word where I work. I'm guessing your job keeps you in an office, not at a factory or outside. KRC

The word cunt is used often to refer to inanimate objects. If you've ever had a job in a workshop, or a construction site in Australia you'd know this. Whoever removed the section on Australian usuage, you don't know just how much the word is used. It's used more liberally than fuck in some circles.

Don't throw around words like "blatantly false, indeed absurd;", when you obviously are ignorant on the subject.

"Start up the cunts" (start up a truck) "pass the cunts" (pass me the screws) etc "What are you cunts doing" (what are you people doing?) obviously context becomes very important with the word cunt

-- rom

Ignorant? I take it by that you mean "you don't work with vulgar blue-collar rednecks who use cunt for want of a vocabulary". For the vast majority of Australian society, the use of the word would most definitely draw the reaction parodied in Curb Your Enthusiasm.

What a cunt! (when things don't go your way) is another. -- Longhair 08:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Can we agree on this - in some circles cunt is used quite liberally in Australia but I'd think you'd find that its only amongst people who know each other relatively well on some level. However if you do not think it is the most offensive word I'd like to know what is. Whilest fuck might be more commonplace now in some Australian television and media, cunt is still crossing another line altogether and I've seen it regularly as c**t in The West Australian newspaper - 25/1/2006 - User:RoyalDave

Some circles is right, but not just isolated groups. Used alot by people who work with their hands or outside. Knowing someone well is not required, in those industries usuage of cunt(to refer to anything) is expected in Australia. Also in many pubs, the word cunt will be used among strangers liberally and not be intended to cause offence. --rom

I spoke to a few mates about this topic, when I asked them how much the word cunt was used in australia they all said "alot", "heaps" or that it's "overused", we debated the definition of sus-cunt, and agreed that cunt was not always intended to be offensive.

Then I showed them the current australian usage section, after laughing about how comprehensive wikipedia was, they agreed the article was accurate. The only sticking point being, that the term is also used in a similar way in New Zealand, and possibably the UK.

Could some kiwi or british wikipedians fill us in on whether cunt is used as a pronoun in your countries? Logically affirmitive responses carry more weight than negative since to say a word isn't used in this fashion is to say that you've heard a large enough cross section of society speaking over a long enough period of time, in enough situations to say the term isn't used with certainty. On the other hand, the burdern of proof is on positive statements (and i'm saying Cunt is an Australian pronoun).... you can rest assured that cunt is a pronoun among working class Australian males and it's usage as such is not at all uncommon. I think most australian wikipedians would agree.

As a working class Australian male, I can indeed confirm that the word is used extensively (perhaps too much?).

Fat cunt, stupid cunt, silly cunt, funny cunt etc, aren't used as compund words anywhere I've seen them in print, and I've removed them accordingly.

I find this blatantly offensive. It could be said that I am from a working class family in Australia, and am therefore supposidly going to be less offended by use of the word. I'm in Canada at the moment and I can tell you without doubt that I have heard the word in more frequent useage here than in Australia. Its utterly inaccurate, and very offensive.

I don't think you can make a linguistic comment about a socio-economic class in Australia. I work an office job and the word "cunt" is something I hear on the odd occasion and it is not something people (particularly males) make a fuss about. In social circles that I associate with I find that economic class does not relate at all to usage of the word. I think it is rediculous to suggest it is a working class word.

You are not even capable of spelling the word 'ridiculous'. Moreover, you yourself qualified your anecdotal evidence with 'that I associate with'. Describe yourself as a boor if you will, but do not apply your experience to the rest of Australia. I am reverting it to 'working-class'. If you are unhappy with that characterisation, cite evidence that the broad population regards and uses the word as you do, rename the section to describe a portion of the population for which you do have evidence, or delete it entirely as a rediculous [sic] generalisation that you are ill-qualified to make. I will otherwise flag the article as failing to be of a NPOV. As the one making the positive assertion, the onus lies with you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.135.252.49 (talk • contribs) .

Could we please try to maintain WP:Civility here? Ad-hominem attacks are not conducive to creating great articles. In regards to the specific dispute here, I don't think it's productive to argue about who has burden of proof. Surely there's evidence beyond the anecdotal one way or the other? Both sides should present what they have so that we can reach a consensus. Powers 15:48, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

The purpose of this section is to show how the word is used differently by some Australians (excluding you apparently). To asert that the difference in usage is restricted to the "working class" is just untrue. I will concede that the word is probably used more liberally by people who probably fit the description of working class, but that could be generally said about most terms one might consider vulgar. This is about a usage that is perculiar to Australia. To make the comment that this particular usage of the word is perculiar to only the working-class of Australia is a complete over-generalisation which represents a socio-economical stereotyping which has no place in an article about the usage of a word. I think a qualifier in the first couple of sentences such as "especially true of the working class" may be a qualified comment, but to title the section "Australian Working-Class usage" is not appropriate. I will not edit this immediately as you will probably just edit it back. I will leave it a while for a reply--Jabberwalkee 16:46, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree Jabber. The phrase "working class" is pretty weak anyway. Could one of the people using it define what it means in contemporary Australian society clearly? This section is leaning on too much anecdotal evidence. 13 March, 2006

This is a stupid argument and it needs to be stoppped. Its turning into a flame war by one group who use it all the time and another that use it occasionally. Its very simple. In construction site etc. environment its quite normal to use it, if you said that to your boss, he wouldnt even blink. If you worked in an office, you would be told to not swear so much in some places, and in others you would be fired. This is obviously a generalisation however I hope that non australians will understand the point. Australians who say 'i say blah blah at my work', stop talking shit. Your work isnt the whole of Australia.--Dem 23:37, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

That's why most of this section should be culled - it's largely anecdotal. Isn't there some "no original research" rule? And an office worker and a plumber can both be "working class" so that appelation is pretty fucking useless.

It could be preserved, but, in order for it to be accurate, the title should be amended to: "The Customary Usage of Certain Rednecks Who Blundered Their Way to Wikipedia and Who Consider Limited Anecdotal Evidence Derived from Shovelling Shit at a Garbage Tip to Be Relevant to All of Australian Society". kekek.

Racial terms of abuse like Redneck, usually referring to fair skinned people who live in warmer climates aren't helpful. Infact, wikipedia was founded by such people. And many of these industries are you describing as shit shovelling have the highest average wages in Australia, and are responsible for most of the exports. I don't know or care what you do, but your criticisms are way off the mark.

You cunts carry on about cunt a lot. Who gives a fuck?

Hey, I give a fuck! Some of my best moments are tightening up Cunt, cleaning Cunt up, applying my best thinking to Cunt, caressing and working over Cunt, finding other uses for Cunt, and on and on and on. And when Cunt is in my hands, it's in cocksure, loving hands indeed -- I know exactly what I'm doing. I don't care much whether I'm working on American Cunt, English Cunt, Australian Cunt, or even Scottish Cunt -- every moment spent with it is a moment of pleasure. And if and when the article gets a bit long, I'll apply my skills to shaving Cunt down to its earlier, smaller appearance. Lou Sander 22:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC) (Proud to be fucking around with Cunt)

Has anyone taken into account that the use of the word cunt can and most likely varies depending where a person lives, not just which country but perhaps region, age, i find younger people tend to be less discriminative on the words they use and where they use them, work environment where im inclined to believe the word cunt would be used more where there is a small number of women employees, and the social groups that people are part of. As a Canadian, it would be wrong for me to speak for all 30 million Canadians as Canada is a large country as is Australia and i havent lived in every region to verify that the use of the word cunt is the same everywhere in Canada. I have not worked in every type of work environment to be able to comment on the use of the word cunt in each work environment, and i wouldnt say that every working person regardless of occupation would use the word cunt in the same frequency that i am familiar with. I do know that the word cunt does vary depending on social circles and this is based on my personal experience. Therefore, everyone who has commented here is correct to some extent, based on there own experiences and for someone else to say they are wrong, IS wrong. The only thing really incorrect is someone assuming their personal experiences apply to an entire country and the lifestyles of everyone living there without extensive studies to back up what they are saying. If those people commenting here would mention what region they live in, age group, work environment etc. we might better understand the differences. To Mister UNSIGNED, for you to remove someone elses comments is to imply that yours is more valid, how can you say someone elses personal experiences are wrong? To the unsigned Australian in Canada, Have you been EVERYWHERE in Canada to verify that the word cunt is used more frequently than in ALL of Australia? KGP 13 Jan 2007 13:45

OED, etc.

Does anyone actually have a citation for the OED claim, other than a blog? We don't accept blog comments as adequate citations.

There are some other peculiar claims in the article; for example, in which "Commonwealth countries" is the word "occasionally used as a jovial term of endearment (e.g. 'he's a good cunt')"? And how "occasionally" are we talking about? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:14, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

I looked it up in the OED myself. Gamaliel 17:32, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm afraid that coqsportif (talk · contribs) has been making some very dubious edits (as well as stalking me, stirring up trouble between me and other editors, etc., all as a result of this business), and I'm disinclined to accept his word. Yours, on the other hand, is money in the bank. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:32, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. :) Gamaliel 14:27, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

coqsportif's word has nothing to do with it; you weren't reverting him. [1] The blog link was merely an attempt to corroborate the reverted factoid by directing the reader to the text of the OED entry, which, of course, I also checked. Nevertheless, I'm not a fan of blog links (unless the blog is notable), so I removed the link, which is what common sense and common courtesy suggests you should have done rather than, as your comment confirms, assuming bad faith and deleting the whole sentence, which was added [2] and edited [3] long before your irrelevant spat with coqsportif erupted.

chocolateboy 09:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, my apologies if I've offended you, but in fact going back before that diff it's clear that the material that I deleted was in fact first added by Coqsportif (together with the photo of the fake street sign), as part of his attempt to keep the image, and was deleted by Viriditas as well as by me. Bad faith didn't have to be assumed; it was hitting us round the head with cries of childish anger. Secondly, though, I didn't automatically delete the material because it had been added by him; I read it, and judged that it was inappropriate for the summary of this article (certainly in its original form). That wasn't only because it was inadequately cited (which is very often taken to be good reason to remove a claim whoever added it), but because it was at best suitable for a section on the origins of the word rather than the summary. Thirdly, the version that I deleted in the diff you provide was also inaccurate; there's no reason to suppose that the word was less frowned upon in those places. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:03, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

1) The "material" you repeatedly [4] [5] [6] deleted was first added by Rich Farmbrough, not coqsportif. It was edited by me long before you started to pursue a virulently offtopic auto-revert war against "coqsportif", and long before you ever started "contributing" to (i.e. deleting material from) this article.

2) "Bad faith didn't have to be assumed." You seem to be unfamiliar with your own blind reversions [7] [8] [9]: a) you were reverting me, Anthony Appleyard, and Viriditas, not coqsportif b) "coqsportif has been making some very dubious edits (as well as stalking me, stirring up trouble between me and other editors, etc., all as a result of this business), and I'm disinclined to accept his word." This article is about "cunt", not about your irrelevant beef with coqsportif.

3) The etymology of the word "cunt" is certainly not inappropriate for an article on the word "cunt", just as the etyomolgy of the word" fuck" is not inappropriate for an article on the word "fuck".

4) The OED doesn't need a secondary (or tertiary) citation. "The OED suggests that", and "sources such as the Oxford English Dictionary contend" are utterly perspicuous citations.

chocolateboy 23:24, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

coqsportif is permanently blocked, so all this is moot, no? Gamaliel 03:22, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree, but Chocolateboy is clearly worked up about this, and a few responses might help. I agree that I had a conflict with Coqsportif, and I was also hurried (having other extensive vandalism issues in hand); if that made me overhasty in not explaining myself, I apologise. I can only repeat, though, that I did take enough time to consider my deletions. I didn't (still don't) think that the reference to Groipecuntlane" was relevant to the summary (nor is it etymological; it tell us nothing about the word's etymology, only its first appearance, in a context that shows it to have been already in common use). I also agree that the OED doesn't need secondary citations, but an unreliable editor's claim as to what the OED says needs corroboration. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:43, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

1) etymology: "The origin and historical development of a linguistic form as shown by determining its basic elements, earliest known use, and changes in form and meaning, tracing its transmission from one language to another, identifying its cognates in other languages, and reconstructing its ancestral form where possible." [10]

2) "an unreliable editor's claim as to what the OED says needs corroboration": Is that personal attack directed at me, Rich Farmbrough, Anthony Appleyard or Viriditas?

chocolateboy 17:54, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

---

Neither "earliest known use" nor any variant thereon appears in the dictionaries I checked, and it's not normally part of the meaning of the word:

"an account ofd the source and development of a word or morpheme" (The Collins English Dictionary)

"an account of the origins and the developments in meaning of a word" (The Concise Oxford English Dictionary)

"(a) the sources of the formation of a word and the development of its meaning. (b) an account of these." (The Oxford American Dictionary of Current English)

"The study of the historical relation between a word and the earlier form or forms from which it has, or has hypothetically, developed." (The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Linguistics)

Still, at least I now understand the reason for our disagreement on this. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:46, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

2) "an unreliable editor's claim as to what the OED says needs corroboration": Is that personal attack directed at me, Rich Farmbrough, Anthony Appleyard or Viriditas?

Now you're being needlessly confrontational; you know full well which editor I was referring to. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:46, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

---

1) The "origin" or "source" of a word includes its first recorded use, so three of those citations, along with the Longman Dictionary of the English Language ("The history of the origin and development of a word") confirm the "disagreement".

2) "Secondly, though, I didn't automatically delete the material because it had been added by him" vs "you know full well which editor I was referring to". It wasn't added by coqsportif. It was added by Rich Farmbrough, and edited by myself, and Paul Barlow, among others. You claim that you "did take enough time to consider [ your ] deletions", but keep gamboling away from this simple and trivially verifiable fact.

3) "Now you're being needlessly confrontational". I'd categorize blind reversions as "needlessly confrontational", particularly when the reverter stubbornly refuses to concede that the reverts were taking out good faith edits caught in the crossfire.

chocolateboy 17:54, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Any chance that we can give this subject a rest now? Paul B 18:29, 23 August 2005

Euphemisms

What, no mention of \"See you next Tuesday\"?

It was there, but must have been recently removed. I\'ll restore it. Paul B 00:04, 25 August 2005

--- you forget \"see you auntie\" (phone-et-ik-alley)

also See You Newt

I've turned the euphemisms paragraph into its own section, with a list - I think it was in dire need of tidying up...

Picture?

Any chance of a picture? --211.218.1.177 15:55, 23 October 2005 (UTC)JohnO

Try Google. There are lots. Paul B 16:29, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

See Vulva, not to be confused with Volvo. Wahkeenah 16:33, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Male / Female

In the US I've noticed the term is usually used to insult females, in Britain almost always men. This isn't mentioned in the article. Should it be? --Sachabrunel 20:52, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it should. Maximile 00:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup Suggestions

This article isn't bad but I think it needs some tightening up -- maybe choose a few very relevant cultural uses and consolidate them into one section, and define a clear structure for the article to follow. I'll work on it later if I have time. Tim Pierce 00:03, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Tightening up a cunt? Who wouldn't be in favor of THAT??? Lou Sander 14:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

No seriously, you have no idea how often the word 'cunt' is used. Teenagers say stuff like 'cunt off' and 'you're a cunting cuntface' all the time due to the fact that it is just so insanely vulgar and ridiculous, not to mention funny... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.166.75.40 (talk • contribs) .

Seems to me to be a comphrensive and concise article. Unless you've noticed a specific problem with the article, I'm going to remove the tag. Kerowyn 02:22, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

"I am a Country Member." "I Remember." - Aussie political humour!

See Ref: http://whitlamdismissal.com/speeches/00-05-24_politicians-humour-debate.shtml

In December 1997 Alan Ramsey, who has an unrivalled memory for the peccadilloes of politicians, wrote that Menzies had called Calwell "a piece of scum" and that I had called Billy McMahon "a runt". I sent him a fax:

I used the word for an aspiring Prime Minister, not a Prime Minister (Abiding Interests, page 23). It was apt but cruel. A person as tall as I should not have used it. Never in the House did I use the word which comes to mind.

"The nearest I came to doing so was when Sir Winton Turnbull, a member of the cavalleria rusticana, was raving and ranting on the adjournment and shouted: "I am a Country member". I interjected "I remember". He could not understand why, for the first time in all the years he had been speaking in the House, there was instant and loud applause from both sides."

The above might be worth a mention.

~~JohnI~~

Scottish usage?

My anecdotal impression from Scottish authors and films is that cunt is very commonly employed in much the same manner the article describes cunt's usage in Australia--far more casually than it is used in the rest of the United Kingdom. If this impression is correct, maybe this should be mentioned. If not, please disabuse me.

I would agree with the above. I would also suggest that Irvine Welsh would be an appropriate example of a high-profile author who uses the term prevalently in his novels, as part of popular language. Misterduffy 20:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Yes it is occasionally used in a friendly manner but im not sure if it is so common as to merit a mention. An Siarach

I have lived in Scotland all my life, and I would say it most definitely deserves a mention. Such phrases are in common usage...

"aw cunt" = everybody, "a good cunt" = a nice guy,

and don't forget the many variations such a, Cuntybaws (an unpleasant person) and Cuntyface (an unattractive female).

don't add them, they're not very commonly used nationwide, however along the central belt of Scotland the word is used very commonly

I live outwith the Central Belt and the description the word's usage in Scotland is pretty accurate to me, although "bra" would most probably replace "barry". I would, however, not be opposed to changing it to something like "the same type of useage is fairly common in parts of Scotland". Benson85 01:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

---

Well, I live in Glasgow and I would have to say it is more prevalent in Glasgow and the surrounding areas. I myself (ashamedley!) use many of the phrases every day......

"any cunt" - anybody e.g. "Any cunt coulda guessed that!" - "Anybody could have guessed that" "every cunt" - everyone/everybody e.g. "I've tellt every cunt tae get the bus to toon" - "I've told everyone to get the bus into town" "nae cunt" - nobody e.g. "Make sure nae cunt buys it!" - "Make sure nobody buys it"

It can also be used as an adjective ...

"He's a gid cunt" - "He's a good lad" "Whae's that cunt there?" - "Who's that there?"

It's also a term of endearment - especially in the form of "ya cunt"....I think a suitable translation for some people would be "buddy".... e.g. "It's alright ya cunt!" - "It's alright buddy/dude."

Just my thoughts!!

00:59, 28 December 2006 (UTC)Regards, Callum Lawson Callum Zephir, 28th December 2006

In "Chewin' the Fat" there were a series of sketches were a grandfather type figure was out walking with his grandson and they would walk past a variety of situations e.g. man posing in his convertable Porsche, and he would say to his grandson "Some people can and some people can't, and he's a can't." Bigmcben 17:57, 30 December 2006 (UTC) Keith J Bell

Media usage.

I think Deadwood has outdone any of the mainstream media listed as far as usage of the word. They've said it more often and with a range of emotion from comical to pure hatred.

As far as the jovial British usage, Shaun Of The Dead would serve as a good example.

Etymology of cunt

It appears that there are at least three etymologies for cunt given in the article, one tracing it back to PIE *gwen-, "woman", another to PIE *gen-, "to beget", another to PIE *ku-, "to cover"; in addition, a non-Indo-European origin is suggested. However, the article does not clarify the situation enough. Alexander 007 20:47, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

It's been clarified. Alexander 007 20:52, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

What about cunning? The relationship to this word is very political and ought to be mentioned.

Why should it be mentioned? They're not related. Don't be a silly cunt.

Too short

May I comment that this page is far too short. 4000 words on the subject of "cunt" is far too few, we really need more details. This is, after all, a critical subject! Thank you. --05:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Acceptability across demographics

I think that it is quite clear from discussions here that certain people in the English-speaking world find the word acceptable in general conversation, using it as often as other 'swear words' such as shit and fuck, and in contexts where shock and offence are not intended, whilst others find the word generally offensive or disgusting in most, if not all circumstances. I think that the article should relay the fact that there is this range of attitudes towards the word in the 'usage' section.

I don't think, however, that we ought to be pointing out which people find the words acceptable and which do not by means of very broad demographic generalisations. The implication that Australians find the word more acceptable than the British or Americans is quite a gross generalisation, as is the generalisation that the word is more associated with the 'working classes'. These generalisations seem to be based on people's personal experiences more than anything else and come over as quite flimsy arguments. I also feel that we're getting into rather dangerous territory when we mention subjective definitions such as 'class' which I feel are best left to other articles.

By all means, make note of changing attitudes towards the word, but not like this. Perhaps something more tangible such as accounts of how the media use and censor the word would be a better way of going about things?

Removed Daniel reference

The following ridiculous and unverifiable assertion was removed 2006-03-22. It was added on 2006-03-17 by an anonymous user who has no previous or subsequent edits; I think it's safe to consider it vandalism. Rpresser 19:16, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

The word cunt is also a term in Jewish mythology, referring to the furred cup which Daniel drank from after skinning the lions which attacked him , which is the chief reason why it is used as slang for a woman's vulva, or vagina.

George Bush

Found this in the text, not sure its totally accurate

"Often when cunt is intended to offend it is used to mean George Bush - the biggest dick licker on the planet earth."

It's accurate, though I wish I could have put it in his mom's ass... Dexter111344 23:48, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

"Uses in Popular Culture"

Is that section really intended to be a list of every single time the word is mentioned in a book, movie, or TV show? Some of the entries seem pretty trivial, like "Used in The Exorcist, and the vehicle driven by "Pimp Bob." Joyous | Talk 14:38, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, but it's missing a reference to Kenny Everett's most brilliant quip, which also got him sacked. Something about a pompous caller to Everett's radio program explaining "I'm a Country member", to which Everett replied, "Oh yes, I remember.". Another sackable one went like this "When Britain was an empire, we were ruled by an emperor. When it was a kingdom, we were ruled by a king. Now that we're a country, we've got Margaret Thatcher." Like last week's yogurt, Kenny was a true creator of culture. DLeonard 14:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I would agree that Kenny Everett is an essential addition to this section, compared to many of the other inclusions. Perhaps more famous than the above quotes is his character Cupid Stunt, a spoonerism of Stupid Cunt. A further worthy addition would be the rude, usually offensive, alter-ego used by Australian comedienne Julia Morris, 'Mrs. Cunty'. Misterduffy 20:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

footnote

I removed the odd footnote that states that "kunta" does not exist in modern Swedish and that there is no evidence that word ever meant the same as the English one. As currently phrased, this is inappropriate. There is no point adding a note that seems simply to contradict the main text. All the sources I have consulted state that the term does exist in Swedish as a dialect word. It is difficult to understand what purpose this footnote is supposed to serve, since it merely confuses the reader by stating the opposite of what the text says without any qualification. Incidentally, being linguistically cognate does not require that the word have an identical meaning. Paul B 11:45, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Meco"

RCH

I've always understood the RCH to be the smallest measurement. Lou Sander 02:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

rhyming slang

"Drop kick and punt" is also rhyming slang. It is usually shortened to dropkick, where it then becomes less vulgar (The federal treasurer of Australia used it against an opposition MP last week and didnt get told to withdraw his comment or anything)

Cunt / Vulva / Vagina

Someone edited out the point that a more polite but less accurate word for "cunt" is "vagina." I think they were mistaken in doing that.

In my experience, "cunt" refers to the collection of all externally visible female genitalia, including the vagina. A cunt is what one would see when viewing a so-called "spread shot" on a porn site. Also in my experience, there are significant numbers of people who confuse the word "vagina" with the whole cunt (so to speak). Rush Limbaugh is one of these -- when talking of a piece of candy shaped like a woman's "thing," he said it was shaped like a vagina. IMHO, many others make the same error. Lou Sander 04:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Men as cunts

In my experience in the U.S., men are rarely referred to as cunts. A cunt is first and foremost a cunt, or a woman's "thing." As a synecdoche, the word is sometimes used to refer to a woman or women, usually in a slightly derogatory way (though some of them seem to be greatly offended by such usage): "That dumb cunt Hillary," or "Duke University is just a bunch of cunts teaching feminist claptrap to unsuspecting rich kids." There's often a connotation of stupidity, foolishness or silliness when the word is used in this way.

Also in the U.S., when a man is referred to with a female genitalia term, in my experience the preferred word is "pussy," and the meaning connotes effeminacy or non-manliness. "You're such a pussy, John... you never join us for beers," or "The Marine Corps is looking for a few good men, and the Air Force is looking for pussies."

I've never heard the sort of cunt-calling towards men and towards oneself that seems to be common in the U.K. and Australia. Lou Sander 00:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• I agree with the above, for a man "cunt" is rarely used in the U.S. Instead, the term "pussy" is used often, as in, "Ignore those old Navy pussies with big mouths," or "Leave it to a pussy to call names from the bushes."

(RE: the above post) ...such as by leaving unsigned posts about calling names from places whose names are also synonymous with cunt.) And "pussy," though otherwise accurately referred to in the unsigned post, is never used in reference to senior citizens. ;-) Lou Sander 13:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Copy editing

I've decided to be bold and do some copy editing on this long article. The first step was to shorten the introduction and make it summarize the word, its definitions, and some of its other aspects. Everything (except the proto-German reference) that I removed from the introduction was moved elsewhere, often to Usage.

I added the stuff about synecdoche because this usage is so massively covered in the article, so probably should be explained. (If you read the article, you'd think that the word applies to people rather than anatomical parts.)

I put "Vulgarity and offensiveness" in its own section. (There's other material in the article that probably belongs there, too. I'll collect it all and move it.)

Unless people hate what I've done so far, I'm planning to tackle other sections of the article soon. As of now, it seems to me that both the etymology and the examples of use are seriously overlong. I'd appreciate feedback on that view, of course. Lou Sander 17:24, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's been a whole day, and no complaints so far. But it's a Sunday and maybe people aren't on the computer, so I won't do anything else immediately. I propose the next step to be greatly shortening the etymology section. Here's the plan:

• Keep the first two paragraphs ("Cunt is an old... and "Its original derivation..."), since they provide basic etymological information.
• On the grounds that they are overkill and somewhat obscure to boot, delete the next paragraph and the two indented ones. ("A derivation from yet another..." and the quoted material that follows.)
• Keep the next paragraph ("Cunt has been in common use...")
• Move the rest of the section to Testimonials, where it can be considered separately. (I'm thinking that an etymology needn't trace the use of the word from 1230 to 2004 -- it should give an idea where the word came from, then should move on to other things.)

That's it. Lou Sander 01:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I've done some more moving around along the lines of the above. The Etymology section now covers only the origins of the word. That which was formerly there still exists, but has been moved to a new section called Usage in literature. Some of it needs to be moved elsewhere, and the whole matter of Usage needs work. I'll do it all shortly, unless there are objections. Lou Sander 02:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I moved Etymology to the head of the article, where it usually is in dictionaries. Have patience, the rearrangement of this article is is a work in progress. Lou Sander 04:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Wrestling with Usage and sequence of material. Put Pre-20th century stuff together chronologically. Your continued patience is appreciated. Lou Sander 13:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Continuing to copy edit. Moved things around, but didn't change anything. Changed "Usage" to "Usage: Contemporary," and combined U.S. and non-U.S. material under that heading. A new heading, "Breaking taboo," covers use of the word on television, in films, etc. Next I plan to work on "Usage: Contemporary," probably having subsections on use as an anatomical word, about women, about men, and about inanimate objects. So far, nobody has complained about my copy editing, so I'm going to continue it along the same general lines. Lou Sander 20:19, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I've finished what I wanted to do with "Usage: Contemporary." Put in some sub-categories. Polished a lot of wording, this time making some major changes to paragraphs. I think it improved them without changing their meaning. (Comments and criticisms are welcome, of course.)

The next thing I want to do is to work over the Euphemisms and Testimonials sections. As it is, we seem to be listing every use of the word by teenagers, broadcasters, musical groups, etc. It seems to me that this material could and should be shortened quite a bit. I'll leave this up here a while before actually making any edits, in case there are people who disagree with polishing and shortening these sections. Lou Sander 03:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Yoni, etc.

We could use help from someone familiar with Indian languages based on Sanskrit. I believe our words on yoni are proper and correct, but I'm far from an authority. Someone could provide confirmation, or correction, or ???? Lou Sander 19:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

It would also be nice to know if other languages have non-vulgar words for the anatomical area denoted by cunt. Lou Sander 12:55, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Our obligation?

I'm thinking that we should all work hard to make this article as good as we possibly can. Reasons: 1)The sensitive nature of the subject (no pun intended), and 2) Young people no doubt visit this article in huge numbers, looking for "dirty words." We shouldn't let "cunt" disappoint them. Lou Sander 13:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

More Australia

Half this talk page seems to be Aussie. Anyway do people in Australia use cunt in a friendly manner (he's a silly cunt) as is indicated by the article. I haven't heard that anywhere but british TV/movies (i'm an aussie). The bellman 09:59, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Yer a good cunt, Bellman! Here in the U.S., at least in my experience, the most common usage is as a term of disrespect for a woman. "That dumb cunt Hillary," for example. It might very occasionally be used toward a man, and in that case it would probably convey that he's effeminate, or some sort of pommy bastard, or like that. ;-) Lou Sander 13:04, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Unsuitable external link???

The external link to Yoni Yagna - Celebration of Cunt seems to have some legitimate application to this article, but the home page of the site cautions that it is only for people over 21. Also, the linked-to page is more about sexual stimulation than it is about the word "cunt." I'm thinking that it should be removed on those two grounds. What do you think? Lou Sander 15:12, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The link being only appropriate for over 21s is no grounds for it not to be considered appropriate for wikipedia, because that would be cesnorship. IF it's about masturbation or sexual stimulation and not about CUNT per se than that is grounds for it to be removed.

Pudendum

While the contemporary clinical use of the term "pudendum" in English is relatively neutral, it should probably be noted that this Latin derived term's literal meaning is actually very negative. The word "pudendum" is derived from the neuter gerundive of pudēre, "to make or be ashamed".

Why? To make the article even longer, and cuntier?

Etymology again

I've removed the sentence which stated that this word is ‘clearly related’ to the English word cut, which is not true. Widsith 10:06, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

A skeptical cunt

Do vaginas really exist? Can some cunt tell me?

kott = German?

"kott" is no German word, as it says here. It might be a word of some German dialect I don't know, but that dialect would be a very exotic one and the word would be spelt with a capital K anyway. Does anyone know if there is a German word with the same etymology?

Well, I am German and don't know the word "kott" or a similar word with the same meaning as "cunt". The most suitable translation would be "Fotze" or "Futt". But it COULD be an old german word, which I never heard of..

CUNT -origins

I have heard in UK that this word was used to refer to the scabbard that a field-hand kept his sharpening stone in for a scythe.

Also in UK, Lloyd Bridges underwater series on TV, "Sea Hunt" was interpreted as C-unt.

Dmp224 20:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

• Well, it's possible it could have been a slang term back then -- after all, the Latin vagina means "sheath". But that isn't the origin of the word -- there's lots of folk etymology out there, especially for "dirty" words, but "cunt" is pretty well known to be tied to the Indo-European root for "woman", and thus quite literally means "womanly bits" or "womanhood". Any alternate meanings would have come after the original sense. Haikupoet 02:05, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

weasel words

The following uses are weasel words:

• "Some consider the term obscene.."
• "...yet others regard it.."
• "...term may sometimes be used ..."
• "Some consider the term highly offensive..."
• "Others consider it merely ..."
• "Some commentators argue..."
• "The word is arguably more offensive ..."
• "...often considered the most offensive word that can be used ..."
• "It is sometimes used somewhat less..."
• "Some feminists seek..."

- Davodd 08:31, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I doubt that in this case we can do much about this, as is accepted by the discussion of backronym on the Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words page. Colloquial usage is almost impossible to cite authoritively. Paul B 12:27, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Can anyone help disambiguate "Plan B" in the Testimonials section?

Google gave no help for the source of the quote "I use the word cunt a lot, because the only way to get through to the youth of today is to use words that will grab their attention" --CliffC 02:21, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

He's a British rapper - a cut-price Eminem. Paul B 09:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Countryside

Is is worth noting that Stephen Fry recently defined "countryside" as "the act of killing Piers Morgan"?

Yes, we must write about every single time the word cunt was ever used. Including the sentence just written.

Unit of Measure

There seems to be some disagreement on this topic in the editing, so I thought I'd bring it to the Talkpage. I've heard variations on "thin as a cunt hair" and "move it over just a cunt hair" in almost every region of the U.S. While it certainly enjoys popular usage, you can't reasonably expect to find it in a technical dictionary. A ref from a dictionary of slang would seem to be appropriate under the circumstances; that's what the usage is. --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 04:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

This debate seems to have moved here from [strange units of measurement]. One issue is that without a valid cite, it looks like gratuituous profanity. Nothing wrong with including swear words where appropriate to an article, but equally where there is no valid cite, it gives the appearance of profanity for the sake of profanity, not to mention original research.

The cite that is in there now a dictionary of playground slang, and as such has extremely dubious validity (I'd say none) for any attempt to show usage by aircraft mechanics, enginners, or cooks.

Urbandictionary.com was also given as a cite. I removed that as it is not a reliable source according to wikipedia standards.

I realise this is an informal phrase and as such cites are hard to obtain. However, lack of cites is by wikiepdia standards, a reason for removing the item entirely, not a reason for leaving the item in uncited. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Finally, (relevant to strange units of measurement, but not this article) I have serious issues about including the hair's breadth section at all. As popularly used, it is an expression used to denote a very small distance, and not a true unit. The litmus test for this distinction is whether or not it would be natural to refer to "five hairs' breadth". It should be possible to add a number to the unit and still make sense as natural speech for it to be a unit of measurement. Shedload, bee's dick and others have already been removed from that article for failing this criterion. Items that fail this are more properly figures of speech to denote small or large (depending on expression) quantities, and not true units of measurement.

Rhialto 05:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

As much as I found the original reference amusing, your eminently well-reasoned discourse compels me to agree with you on every point. In truth, I've never heard it used as an actual technical term, just a colloquialism. Further, there's no question that unsourced (or improperly sourced) material needs to be weeded out. I wasn't involved in the actual editing, I just didn't want to see this article turn up in WP:LAME :) --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 08:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

wrt to the article on this page, I am happy to leave the playground slang cite in, as it is the only one available. However, I think that {fact} tag needs to remain, as the only cite we have is tangential to the text in the article. There's too much work put into this item to justify a quick deletion of the text. But it really needs fixing. Rhialto 10:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

By no stretch of the imagination do these terms equate to units of measurement for length! I suspect someone is having a quiet chuckle at having snuck it in, and probably another at the prevarication over rectifying it. I have decided to take the bull by the horns: I've extracted the colloquialisms and moved them to a heading under Variants and Derivatives.

(Lycanthrope 21:30, 29 November 2006 (UTC))

I am responsible for breaking-out the original subsections under "Other meanings" while rewriting what is now the "Nautical usage" subsection. The "Unit of measurement" thing wasn't meant as intentional silliness, but was a attempt to summarize existing material that I was not otherwise touching. However that material was/is problematic and I should have thought a little more carefully before slapping that label on it... --Dfred 01:15, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Cunt Cap image

A cunt cap. This one happens to be worn by a woman, but most are worn by men.

i lol'd. 2nd Piston Honda 11:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

British usage in reference to women

Might I suggest that British usage differs from American usage in that, in Britain (or possibly just England), a woman wouldn't be referred to as a "cunt", where in American usage the word seems reserved for this purpose.

This isn't just out of protectiveness towards women, to save them from the harshest swear word, but to call a woman a "cunt" just sounds wrong and out of place. A man is often referred to as a cunt or a twat, but not a woman. You can call a woman a bitch, a whore, a slag, a slapper, but not a cunt. A cunt is what they have, not what they are. It just doesn't "feel" right. Calling them a slag sounds far worse.

Most insults against women refer to their promiscuity, while men are more often referred to in terms of body parts or excrement.

I have heard "twat" used in reference to women, but only by other women. A man can cause far more damage by calling them a whore etc. In British usage, almost anything can be called a "cunt" by a man, but not a woman. Perhaps this is worse than American usage, as British men don't even dignify women with their "own" insult, but just refer to them in disparaging sexual terms?

Can I alter the article to reflect this? Or are there any British people who disagree with me? It's just that I have heard the word used (in my opinion) wrongly by British characters in American films and TV shows, and it annoys me. Incorrectly scripted swearing sounds like a Stradivarius violin being played out of tune!

I have just spent 3 hours reading this, are'nt I a dumb cunt an aussie again

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