Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ukraine

Ukraine Project‑class

	Ukraine portal This page is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine articles
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This WikiProject has been mentioned by a media organization:

Annie Rauwerda (21 October 2022). "Russian Oligarchs Keep Dying in Suspicious Ways. Wikipedia Is Keeping a List". Slate (magazine). English-language Wikipedia is documenting the crisis, too: Fifty-eight editors have joined the English-language WikiProject Ukraine group, and thousands of others are contributing to their projects. They've tallied the journalists killed in Russia, built a thorough daily timeline, and debated whether the mass graves in the Ukrainian city of Izium should be called a "massacre." (After a few days and 8,000 words, they reached no consensus.)

On 7 February 2023, it was proposed that this page be moved to Jungsturm (Kharkiv). The result of the discussion was not moved.

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Requested move at Talk:2022–2023 western Russia attacks#Requested move 24 June 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2022–2023 western Russia attacks#Requested move 24 June 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Sennecaster (Chat) 00:05, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move at Wikipedia talk:Stress marks in Russian words#Requested move 23 July 2023

An editor has requested that Wikipedia:Stress marks in Russian words be moved to Wikipedia:Stress marks in Russian and Ukrainian words, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. —Michael Z. 19:05, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move at Talk:Central Council of Ukraine#Requested move 18 July 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Central Council of Ukraine#Requested move 18 July 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Frostly (talk) 13:09, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Credibility bot

As this is a highly active WikiProject, I would like to introduce you to Credibility bot. This is a bot that makes it easier to track source usage across articles through automated reports and alerts. We piloted this approach at Wikipedia:Vaccine safety and we want to offer it to any subject area or domain. We need your support to demonstrate demand for this toolkit. If you have a desire for this functionality, or would like to leave other feedback, please endorse the tool or comment at WP:CREDBOT. Thanks! Harej (talk) 18:13, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds like it would really benefit the project. I endorse adopting it. If there are no objections, I’d like to request access at WP:CREDBOT. —Michael Z. 19:26, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Mykola Krupytskyi Monastery

This draft could use a little attention if anyone is interested in working on articles like this. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:07, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merging articles on governorates in Ukraine

Proposing a merge of the following governorate (huberniia) articles.

Kholm Governorate (Russian Empire) (1913–1918) → Kholm Governorate (Ukraine) (1918–1920)
Kiev Governorate (1708–1764) → Kiev Governorate (1802–1925)
Little Russia Governorate (1764–1781) → Little Russia Governorate (1796–1802)

Having these as separate articles is just confusing for the reader and inconsistent. Other Ukrainian governorate articles span long periods and several states (e.g., Russian Empire, Ukrainian People’s Republic, Ukrainian State, Ukrainian SSR, and Soviet Union), and Novorossiya Governorate (1764–1783, 1796–1802) covers a 13-year break in its existence. The latter two subjects are each treated under a single article in the Encyclopedia of Ukraine and its online version, for example (while Kholm gubernia is mentioned but has no article).[1][2]

For comparison, other Ukrainian governorates under the Russian empire were Chernihiv (1802–1925), Katerynoslav (1802–1925), Kharkiv (1835–1925), Kherson (1803–1920), Kyiv (1802–1925), Podillia (1793–1925), Poltava (1802–1925), Volyn (1795–1925), as well as part of Tavriіa (1802–1921) existing from the late eighteenth or early nineteenth centuries, and later were added Donets (1919–1925), Kremenchuk (1920–1922), Odesa (1920–1925), and Zaporizhzhia (1920–1922) governorates. —Michael Z. 21:25, 6 August 2023 (UTC) Added dates. —Michael Z. 15:46, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it makes sense. Ymblanter (talk) 05:41, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, we shouldn't merge amidnistrative units of two different countries. Marcelus (talk) 11:59, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But we do it routinely, see e.g. Vologda Governorate. Ymblanter (talk) 12:06, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, we do not. Vologda Governorate was a part of the Russian Empire and its successor Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. Marcelus (talk) 18:47, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If that were something we shouldn’t do, then we should also be splitting and re-splitting the articles about governorates that were in both Category:Governorates of the Russian Empire and not only about a dozen Category:Governorates of Ukraine (one country but three separate states), but also scores of Category:Governorates of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (which were in both independent states RSFSR and USSR), for example. Please get consensus for such a dramatic change to our practices before citing it as a supposed should-do or shouldn’t-do. Until then, this is for consistency of a few outliers. —Michael Z. 14:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC) Edited. —Michael Z. 15:50, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcelus then do you support or oppose the merge of the Little Russia governorate articles, which were only in the Russian empire?

Can you clarify that by “countries” you mean states? Obviously, Ukraine was a separate country from 1648, then a country colonized by an empire when most of these governorates were created, then kept them as an independent revolutionary country by 1918, then while ruled by a puppet state of Soviet Russia, then a country with the right of secession in the Soviet empire before they were finally dissolved. If you mean states, then most those Ukrainian governorate articles belonged to five states and the implications are severe fragmentation of these subjects, some of which as yet have very little encyclopedic content. —Michael Z. 16:24, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ukraine wasn't a separate country in 1648, but there was a Cossack state that was part of PLC, Turkey or Russia, with various degree of autonomy Marcelus (talk) 18:49, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it was an independent, embattled country after 1648, and an autonomous country from 1654. The Russian tsars started to erode that autonomy immediately, splitting up Ukraine with Poland in 1667, destroying the Zaporizhzhian Sich in 1775, and suppressing Ukrainian language and identity.

That’s a country. Statements that Ukraine wasn’t a country or that it isn’t a nation resemble the hate speech that social media is oversaturated with, and editors should consider their words on the topic if they have trouble writing about Ukrainian history without embarrassing themselves. —Michael Z. 19:06, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, Khmelnytsky state wasn't independent. Initially he was accepting suzerainty of the Commonwealth, later switched to Tsardom.

Statements that Ukraine wasn’t a country or that it isn’t a nation resemble the hate speech that social media is oversaturated with, and editors should consider their words on the topic if they have trouble writing about Ukrainian history without embarrassing themselves - that's Wikipedia:Casting aspersions Marcelus (talk) 19:35, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So then you’d say Russia wasn’t a country until 1991, right, and no one should have any problem with that? —Michael Z. 20:48, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand this comment. Marcelus (talk) 08:12, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bortkiewicz' nationality

There is an edit war and accompanying discussion at Talk:Sergei Bortkiewicz regarding whether Bortkiewicz should be described in the lead as Russian, Ukrainian, or possibly a compromise solution. The talk also lacks a clear consensus on whether Russian or Ukrainian place names should be used in the biography section. I'm soliciting input from this Wikiproject and Wikipedia:WikiProject Russia/Performing arts in Russia task force in an effort to build community consensus. 167.102.146.19 (talk) 20:24, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]