Talk:Elgin Marbles

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Recent citations of Catharine Titi book

There has been a spate of newly registered accounts whose only apparent purpose is to add citations to a new book by the Greek academic Catharine Titi (which is already listed in the article). There is nothing wrong with this as long as the added material improves the article and the multiple new accounts don't belong to the author or anyone associated with the book. Unfortunately, almost all the added material so far lacks full citations (eg page references) and doesn't add anything to points which are already adequately supported by citations to reliable sources. I ask newly registered editors to carefully read the guidelines on conflict of interest and single purpose accounts before adding material. @David78678 and @Dannyboy234990 @Levant2trio @Hominid000 Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 10:38, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Title should be changed to Parthenon sculptures

the title 'Elgin marbles' is controversial and insulting for many people and scholars. According to most researchers, Elgin has actually damaged the Parthenon temple in order to extract the decorative marble sculptures and he sold them to British Museum after a very short period. The conditions under which Elgin removed the sculptures are at least nefarious; no original Ottoman firman has been produced to this day to legitimise Elgin's actions. therefore it is not reasonable to continue to call them Elgin's. Regardless, these are sculptures, not marbles (marble is a material). I propose to rename the article to Parthenon sculptures as is the norm among classicist scholars and redirect 'Elgin marbles' to the same wikipage. Ipodamos (talk) 23:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a difference between the Elgin Marbles, ie the marbles acquired by Elgin, and sculptures from the Parthenon. The article explains the difference. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:00, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The difference is actually erroneous and is not backed up by the literature. There is no such thing as marbles and sculptures: they are all sculpted marble pieces. Also, the part about the drowning of Elgin's ship with the sculptures on his first trip from Athens is missing: this is a crucial piece of the history of the sculptures. Ipodamos (talk) 00:05, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

sinking* not drowning Ipodamos (talk) 00:06, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is no such thing as ships drowning. You need consensus for your changes. Please see Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:08, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

thank you for pointing out that ships are not drowning. Ipodamos (talk) 00:13, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To reach consensus, I guess I have to convince you to address all marbles as sculptures as a beginning: do you disagree or you think that a material describes perfectly well these pieces of art? Ipodamos (talk) 00:16, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at the Further Reading section of this article and you will see that in English it is common to refer to ancient sculptures as marbles. It's a bit old fashioned but is still in use, especially for the Elgin Marbles. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:17, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Aemilius: Absolutely, this terminology is quite outdated and has mainly persisted in usage within the UK. I'm curious whether this Wikipedia page is accessible solely to readers in the UK or if it's intended for a broader audience. Even within the UK, the contemporary and more current term for them is "sculptures." Ipodamos (talk) 00:22, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

even the British Museum refers to them as The Parthenon Sculptures: https://www.britishmuseum.org/about-us/british-museum-story/contested-objects-collection/parthenon-sculptures Ipodamos (talk) 00:24, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]