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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by RadioElectrico (talk | contribs) at 15:52, 13 September 2023. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


    Andreas Umland

    I see Umland being mentioned in here and it bears mentioning that he is involved with the Centrum för Östeuropastudier (CÖS/SCEEUS) (see the CÖS website) which is funded by Utrikesdepartementet, which is part of the Swedish government, a co-belligerent in the present war and a NATO aspirant. Other sources of funding include Särskilda Forskningsprogrammet, Utrikespolitiska Institutet and Nationellt Kunskapscentrum om Kina, with various overlap between these institutions. Umland has a vested financial interest in voicing opinions that are in line with his backers, so please keep this bias in mind. KetchupSalt (talk) 08:42, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    This is farfetched. Sweden is not a dictatorship where the government dictates the research results and your comment about vested interest is pure ≤speculation. Also, your statement that Sweden is a belligerent innthe war is incorrect and mirrors Russian propaganda. Sjö (talk) 10:00, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Sweden is a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, same as Russia. We're sending weapons to Ukraine for free, uncharacteristic for our MIC, and despite the rules saying that weapons should not be exported to states presently at war (p. 100). The Swedish ruling class has been chomping at the bit for 200 years for another war with Russia, which they now have, by proxy. KetchupSalt (talk) 06:52, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I see you're making fun of russia today style propaganda. Manyareasexpert (talk) 07:24, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I admit I do enjoy making fun of all forms of bourgeois propaganda. It is the POV that annoys me. KetchupSalt (talk) 10:56, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You are pushing fringe POV's and violating WP:NOTFORUM, this thread should be closed, and if KetchupSalt continues to use this talk page as a forum for their fringe ideas, they should be blocked from it. TylerBurden (talk) 19:23, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    This is such a reach it is WP:FRINGE. TylerBurden (talk) 10:23, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    That’s the Stockholm Centre for Eastern European Studies, part of the Swedish Institute of International Affairs. So every researcher that works under the auspices of an institution that received public funding is a POV source? Like every single university? Don’t be silly.  —Michael Z. 03:32, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Your remark is more correct than you think. Where funding comes from indeed has a profound effect. The same notion can be seen even among these pages, but only lopsidedly (if correctly) applied to Russia. We fund public service, they fund state propaganda. We have governments, they have regimes. Such a mindset is not conducive to NPOV. KetchupSalt (talk) 10:55, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    “All governments are the same” is literally a key point of the Russian régime’s propaganda. Because they are not. Start with “régime” and “propaganda” in a good English dictionary.  —Michael Z. 04:45, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I did not say that all governments are the same. Stop putting words in my mouth. This is not the first time you have done so, and if you continue to do so then action will have to be taken. I am pointing out obvious POV and questioning the reliability of self-contradictory sources. KetchupSalt (talk) 11:50, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I’ll spell out what you don’t acknowledge. Per Oxford Dictionary of English:
    • regime. A government, especially an authoritarian one.
    • propaganda. Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.
    These are English words with specific meanings. They do apply to the Kremlin’s authoritarian régime and the highly restrictive information environment it controls much more so than to most other states in the world. This is normal usage of English and your complaint about it that tries to cast Russia (“they”) as no more deserving of this terminology than other states (“we”) has no merit.  —Michael Z. 16:00, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Posting maps of the imperial core does nothing but strengthen my point about bias and POV.
    You should know that Sweden recently passed a "foreign espionage" law that criminalizes publishing things that may "hurt Sweden's relationships with other countries". UI, one of Umland's employers, is therefore forbidden from publishing things that may hurt Swedish foreign policy. KetchupSalt (talk) 09:01, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It is enough for us that Umland is recognized authority in a field and is published in and referenced by academic sources. Manyareasexpert (talk) 09:06, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Maps of Moscow and Saint Petersburg? What?
    So no one in a country where foreign espionage violates the law is a reliable source? Or just no one in Sweden? That is what your research has determined? It’s bad research.
    But I don’t see reliable sources saying that Sweden has a more restrictive freedom of speech than other states. In press freedom Sweden ranks 4th in the world, Russia 160 places lower. Top 2 percentile vs bottom 11. See the difference between a propaganda régime and a normal country?  —Michael Z. 14:18, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    For context and clarity, @KetchupSalt apparently refers to my links with maps of press freedom and democracy as “maps of the imperial core,” and reflecting a non-neutral POV.  —Michael Z. 19:28, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, thank you. WP seeks NPOV, which in the present war* means that the only sources that we can hope to not be POV are those aligned to say the African union or the Union of South American Nations. And so on. Places on Earth which are not directly or indirectly involved in the present War. Which is a point I've been making all along.
    • ) yes I am so russopbobic as to refer to the present conflict as a War. I freely admit to not liking Putin, in flagrant violation of WP:NOTAFORUM
    KetchupSalt (talk) 21:37, 21 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I think we should get back to discussing content, putting aside our opinions on bigger issues than our work here. Mhorg (talk) 07:49, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed. And then there’s not much else to say about the OP. Any objection to closing this talk section?  —Michael Z. 16:40, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No idea why it hasn't already, unless people want to waste more time arguing with this individual or they want to continue to dig their hole, I am not opposed to anyone closing it. TylerBurden (talk) 20:44, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Please don't use false statements such as Swedish government, a co-belligerent in the present war while advocating content changes on Wikipedia t/p. Marcelus (talk) 18:02, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Did Sweden declare war on Russia? If not then they aren't a co-belligerent. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:08, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Extended-protected edit request on 25 July 2023

    The statement that "the regiment's size was estimated to be around 900 to 2,500 combatants in 2017–2022" is nonsensical. It could be around 900 or around 2,500, but not both. Please change to "The regiment's size has been variously estimated as 2,500 (by Der Spiegel in 2017) and 900 (by Al-Jazeera in 2022)", per the two refs. 2001:BB6:47ED:FA58:8D5C:E0CF:BB8E:9BFE (talk) 12:58, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

     Done. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 07:49, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    2023 coat of arms

    Add File:Бригада «Азов» лого 2023.svg Zacharpolis (talk) 10:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Conflict between Pro and Anti-Zionist factions during the time of being an informal volunteer battalion

    During the time as an volunteer group, the organizations members disagreed about the group's position on Israel. 2A02:3030:805:D90B:1:0:EDEA:A8C0 (talk) 00:44, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    Source? Slatersteven (talk) 10:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    2023.: Azov brigade (within National Guard of Ukraine) reorganized and back on the frontlines

    Please note news from 2023.:

    "Azov regiment expands to brigade within National Guard of Ukraine", "Ukrainska Pravda",February 9, 2023 https://news.yahoo.com/azov-regiment-expands-brigade-within-195700966.html

    "Ukraine’s Azov brigade, designated by Russia as terrorists, returns to battle front", Tuqa Khalid, Al Arabiya English, February 6, 2022. https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2023/08/17/Ukraine-s-Azov-brigade-designated-by-Russia-as-terrorists-returns-to-battle-front

    "Azov Brigade back fighting at front, Ukrainian National Guard says", "Novaya Gazeta Europe", August 17, 2023. https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2023/08/17/azov-brigade-back-fighting-at-front-ukrainian-national-guard-says-en-news RadioElectrico (talk) 15:52, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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