Jump to content

Talk:Stepanakert

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Yakamoz51 (talk | contribs) at 06:34, 14 November 2023 (→Requested move 11 November 2023: source?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Name of article

Why still name of article is Stepanakert? It is already in a control of Azerbaijan. It is not Stepanakert. It should be changed to Khankendi -- Əhməd Qurbanov (talk) 21:21, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You’re welcome to formally request a move if you wish (for instructions, please see Wikipedia:Requested moves).
In my personal opinion, the current name would probably end up being kept on the grounds of WP:COMMONNAME.
RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 21:43, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are several names of cities that had their name changed in the past few decades, and their names were changed in wikipedia. Several in the 2000s one as recently as 2019. And wikipedia changed the name, lets stay consistent here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_city_name_changes?useskin=vector Midgetman433 (talk) 11:45, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Xankəndi

after September conflicts in Qarabağ this city is controling by Azerbijan so we should change the name of article Abolfazlyashar (talk) 16:45, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Azerbaijani army hasn't entered the city proper yet and the flag hasn't been raised as it happened recently e.g. in Aghdara. This says that until 2025 Khankendi will host Russian peacekeepers and the city will be governed on a mixed basis, with no Azerbaijani police yet. I think we should wait a bit until the city is brought under full Azerbaijani control. Brandmeistertalk 16:57, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is sufficient. Emreculha (talk) 15:34, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Azerbaijani army entered the proper city and the flag of Azerbaijan has been raised in Khankendi. Azerbaijani polices are the olny policing force that police the Khankendi city currently. The Khankendi city is now under full Azerbaijani control. The building of
the so-called "Ministry of Internal Affairs" of the separatist regime in Karabakh is under full Azerbaijani control. [https:// t.co /swmKaklrJp Video of Azerbaijani police in central Khankendi]. The terrorist separatist regime dissolved itself. Azerbaijan has full control. The name of the city must be changed from Stepanakert to Khankendi.78.164.52.103 (talk) 06:34, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
President of Azerbaijan entered to Khankendi. No dispute exists. The name has not been changed yet. 194.135.167.168 (talk) 14:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Name of Khankendi

Dear @RadioactiveBoulevardier, I followed your arguments in the discussion article. There are issues you are right about. However, there are also controversial issues in this (Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)) article.

  1. 1 When a widely accepted English name, in a modern context, exists for a place, we should use it. (Stepanakert is Armenian, Khankendi is Azerbaijani). There is no English name to verify to this city. (There is no option like Munich- Munchen) (Kindly check Rule: English name)
  1. 2 You said that English media use the name "Stepanakert". However, both names are used in the sources. VOA News 1 , VOA News 2, The Times 1, Times 2, Reuters, AP
  1. 3 For modern country names, The World Factbook maintained by the Central Intelligence Agency is current and continuously updated , The name of this city written as a Khankendi in CIA World Factbook Map Source (Kindly check Rule: Widely accepted name, art. #7)
  1. 4 Until 1991, the name of the city of St. Petersburg was "Leningrad". It was also mentioned that way in British sources. The Soviet Union collapsed, the city's name was changed to St. Petersburg. Why wasn't Leningrad used despite the legal change?

In addition to these arguments, the city is completely under Azerbaijani control. The lands in question are considered Azerbaijani territory by the United Nations. (Kindly check city names of Turkish Republic Northern Cyprus).

For the above reasons, I recommend changing the name of the page to Khankendi. Emreculha (talk) 22:14, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is also the principle of Wikipedia:COMMONNAME, Stepanakert is the most commonly used name of the city and the name that it’s 75,000 residents used for it until very recently so that’s why it’s the article title. TagaworShah (talk) 22:17, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there is any logical relationship between naming and population. The cities of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus are calls with Turkish names by their inhabitants. Please indicate the source for the article you are talking about (Especially against cl. #3). If Wikipedia's criteria are going to contradict each other, there is no point in discussing it anyway.Emreculha (talk) 22:28, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia policy is clear, the most commonly used name in reliable sources is the one that is used for the article, for this article that name is Stepanakert. TagaworShah (talk) 22:29, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia: Naming conventions (geographic names) rules are clear. It determines the conditions. It would not make sense to name the substance just because 75,000 people who "lived" there use a name. I am still waiting for source informations against cl. #2 and #3. Emreculha (talk) 22:34, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The quick search on name Khankendi in Google Search and Google maps shows that the sources such as bp.com, al jazeera, bbc.co.uk and etc. using Khankendi as a COMMON NAME to identify the city in Azerbaijan, which makes your justification and argument incorrect. 195.188.142.114 (talk) 10:31, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A quick Google Trends search shows overwhelming use of Stepanakert: even in Turkey, for the past 12 months there's a 2:1 ratio for searches of "Stepanakert". The top news results for "Khankendi" on Brave Search are all .az domains.
I wasn't arguing in favor of one side of the argument or another, merely explaining to our Russian-speaking visiting colleague where I assume consensus is currently at. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 23:56, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
TagaworShah Unfortunately, you are clearly taking a biased approach. Xankendi is currently under the control of the Azerbaijani police and army. All Armenian flags in the city have been lowered. Even on the roads leading to the city, the Azerbaijani name of the city is written on the roadside signs. In such a case, to what extent is it correct to use the unofficial name of the city? --Baskervill (talk) 01:01, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what kind of data you got from Google Trends. However, no one calls this city Stepanakert in Turkey. However, we are talking about a city that is completely under the control of a country. (and it is a very politically sensitive city)--Emreculha (talk) 05:48, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Dear @RadioactiveBoulevardier, First of all, I didn't know about Google Trends. Thank you :)
However, you made a name mistake while doing research on Google Trends. In Turkey Turkish, the name of the city is "Hankendi", not "Khankendi".
If it is valid, you can see that the name Hankendi has a ratio of approximately 9:1 in the comparison in question (yearly). (source)-Emreculha (talk) 05:58, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
After adding Hankendi and Xankendi, the numbers in US, UK, India, Canada, etc are still overwhelmingly preferring Stepanakert. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 06:02, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@RadioactiveBoulevardier, I think I'm making a mistake somewhere. UK and US results are different for me. (with Khankendi). Source 1, Source 2.
I think it would be better to search for "Khankendi" for the English version, "Xankendi" for the Azerbaijani version, and "Hankendi" for the Turkish version. Emreculha (talk) 06:12, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally Canada and India, Germany If I'm making a mistake somewhere, please correct me Emreculha (talk) 06:16, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the (full) link to what I mentioned above: [1] RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 06:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also, are you searching for the term "Khankendi", or the whole topic (which Google has decided should be headed by that name)? RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 07:01, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately due to the way Trends URLs work I can't really see much of what you actually searched for. Check the links in a new tab. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 06:51, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why the links are not opening. It works for me too. Another point is that there is only one version of the concept of Stepanakert, but there are different versions as Hankendi, Khankendi, Xankendi, Xankəndi. The trend is different for each. I can't understand why it doesn't open for you (source) Emreculha (talk) 08:19, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I couldn't agree more with Emreculha's statements. The region has been entirely captured by Azerbaijan, and the mainstream media began using Khankendi as the prime name. For instance, BBC uses Khankendi as the main name here[2]. EloquentEditor (talk) 12:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Name of article should be changed to Khankendi, its official name, definitely. Big media companies including BBC, Al Jazeera mentioned name of city as Khankendi, not Stepanakert. Not only this article, all of places where was under the control of Republic of Artsakh should be changed to official names. Əhməd Qurbanov (talk) 19:43, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This most recent link works, but it seems to show overwhelming use of "Stepanakert" in the Anglophone world. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 21:18, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming to Khankendi

Discussion by non-ECP editors that are not allowed to participate in move discussions in the Armenia-Azerbaijan topic due to GS/AA signed, Rosguill talk 16:30, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

The city is under the full jurisdiction of Azerbaijan, which is proven by the latest visit of President of Azerbaijan Aliyev to the city. Besides, world-known media such as ABC News [3], Reuters [4], and even France24, which is known for pro-Armenian coverages, [5] have started presenting Khankendi as the main name and adding "known as Stepanakert by Armenians". Thus, the article's name must certainly be renamed to Khankendi as it is stated in WP:COMMON. EloquentEditor (talk) 08:58, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am agree. Gadir (talk) 12:16, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am waiting for other editors' responses so we can come to an agreement and take action. EloquentEditor (talk) 13:05, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
👍 Gadir (talk) 13:10, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think, with also usage of Khankendi by big media outlets, it conforms to WP policies — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yakamoz51 (talk • contribs) 15:32, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
With the reasons and sources I have stated here , I think the name of the page should be changed to Khankendi. -- Emreculha (talk) 08:44, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Per Wikipedia:Official names, we do not change the name of an article just to recognize an official name. The naming of the article should be in accordance with the provisions of Wikipedia:Article titles#Deciding on an article title. Among other considerations, has "Khankendi" replaced "Stepanankert" as the "commonly recognized name" of the city? - Donald Albury 12:13, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As Emreculha and EloquentEditor mentioned above and I add more, English media use both names. But they usually use Khankendi as the main name and add "known as Stepanakert to Armenians". BBC: the city of Khankendi, known as Stepanakert to ArmeniansVOA News 1, VOA News 2, The Times , , Reuters 1, Reuters 2 , AP 1, AP 2, AP 3 ABC News, and even France24 says "the city of Khankendi, known as Stepanakert to Armenians".

The World Factbook maintained by the Central Intelligence Agency updated the name of this city as Khankendi Factbook

Given that big media outlets, CIA factbook, and all the current residents of the city use Khankendi , we can definitely say that it is the current common name of the city.Yakamoz51 (talk) 09:11, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

English references

In addition to big media outlets, factbook and being official name, Khankendi is also preferred by English reference sources such as Oxford Reference, britannica, and encyclopedia.com Yakamoz51 (talk) 08:33, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion by non-ECP editors that are not allowed to participate in move discussions in the Armenia-Azerbaijan topic due to GS/AA Donald Albury 12:18, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Yes, replaced. Because all the people who called the city Stepanakert left there. And the city is now inhabited by those who call it as Khankendi. And according to all the laws of that territory, it is called only "Khankendi" . 109.87.192.15 (talk) 16:01, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion by non-ECP editors that are not allowed to participate in move discussions in the Armenia-Azerbaijan topic due to GS/AA Donald Albury 12:22, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


Only Khankendi, no Stepanakert

An unrecognized state in Nagorno-Karabakh no longer exists, the city of Khankendi is completely under the control of Azerbaijan, they even hung a state flag there. But the Armenian moderator cancel edits about renaming the city, leaving the unrecognized and irrelevant name “Stepanakert”. Please make the title "Khankendi" in the article 109.87.192.15 (talk) 15:58, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The name of this city is de jure and de facto "Khankendi"

The flag of Azerbaijan has been raised in "Khankendi" and de facto Azerbaijani rule have been established! All international organizations states that this citys name is "Khankendi" and all the countries recognized by the UN (legitimate states) refers the name of this as "Khankendi". The source below (which is neutral and well recognized) states that the flag of the Azerbaijani republic have been raised and de facto sovereign control has been established by the republic of Azerbaijan. Therefore the title "Stepanakert" needs to be edited to its original name of the settlement, which is "Khankendi". https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20231015-azerbaijan-president-raises-national-flag-in-nagorno-karabakh-capital HistoricalFactCheckX (talk) 10:35, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Republic of Artsakh map

In my opinion, there is no valid reason to have the Republic of Artsakh map in the article since the republic has de-facto dissolved and the city is under the Azerbaijani control. I did not want to edit the article before knowing your opinions. EloquentEditor (talk) 12:18, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality?

2023, it was reported that Azerbaijani authorities had taken control of the city, with almost the entire Armenian population having forced to flee to Armenia ahead of their advancing forces.

Azerbaijan want the city population to stay but Armenian politicians in Yerevan want them to move to Armenia.

Be Neutral please? Wikipedia is the place where the poor kids learn, please don't destroy those poor kids future. 2404:C0:5410:0:0:0:9CB:6E36 (talk) 22:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recapture instead of capture

For neutrality, we should change “Capture by Azerbaijan” to Recapture by Azerbaijan. Camal2015 (talk) 20:55, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For neutrality, we should "Liberation by Azerbaijan" instead of capture or recapture by Azerbaijan. 78.190.236.17 (talk) 23:39, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely agree. It was always Azerbaijani town residing within internationally recognised borders of Azerbaijan. Iliko (talk) 10:07, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is not neutrality and objectivity in this article, especially official name of city

Although the unofficial use of the name Stepanakert in the past when it was under the rule of occupying forces was somewhat acceptable (these regions were never legally part of any country other than Azerbaijan), it is now reconciled when the occupation is over and Azerbaijan has regained control of the city. It is important that the name of this article be changed to Khankendi/Xankendi in Azerbaijani for English wikipedia. 78.190.236.17 (talk) 23:34, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you scroll up, you'll notice there's ongoing discussion on this issue already. But as it is a contentious topic subject to ongoing arbitration enforcement, non-extended-confirmed users may not participate in discussions about moving articles. AntiDionysius (talk) 23:39, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 November 2023

Change "Nagorno-Karabakh" to "Karabakh Economic Region" as it is done below the map. Sources are the same as for the map's text. Iliko (talk) 09:57, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done There is no consensus for such a drastic change. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 18:35, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Name

This and other territories of Azerbaijan that liberated on 19-20 September have own names. Ex: not Stepanakert but Khankendi DEFINETLY. Research it! 188.253.239.186 (talk) 12:39, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 November 2023 (2)

change Stepanakert to Khankendi 188.253.239.186 (talk) 12:41, 8 November 2023 (UTC) Please, name all Azerbaijan's regions correctly![reply]

 Not done See above. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 18:36, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 November 2023

Stepanakert → Khankendi – Due to recent events, control of the city and region has shifted. Reflecting this, English-language sources have now started using Khankendi as the WP:COMMONNAME for the city instead of Stepanakert. This is demonstrated in sources like the Associated Press, Al Jazeera, the BBC, France 24, and more. Remember that due to WP:NAMECHANGES, extra weight is given here. Also at times, English-language sources use both names of the city at the same time, but very rarely is the city only referred to as Stepanakert since Azerbaijan has taken control. After all, it is fully integrated into the country today, and I think that sources have reflected this change in the way they refer to the city. Paul Vaurie (talk) 19:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I might add that even Google has seemingly established the COMMONNAME for the city on its website. On my English-language Google search engine, the "heading" for the city is Khankendi and not Stepanakert, even when I search up "Stepanakert". Paul Vaurie (talk) 19:59, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Also, even if Stepanakert might be regarded by some as WP:COMMONNAME, that wouldn't carry much weight because: there are several issues with that: 1) Artsakh Republic that controlled the city is legally set to dissolve while the city's Armenian population has left it, thus waivering any claim to the Stepanakert name; 2) the city now is under both civilian and military control of Azerbaijan on the ground, particularly after the military parade in the city; 3) continued usage of the Stepanakert name would endorse outdated, inaccurate and potentially WP:POVish view. Brandmeistertalk 00:18, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:COMMONNAME is unconditional, if it was the common name it wouldn't carry less weight because of those three reasons. Also I don't think there is any POV issue here. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 18:44, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I concur. COMMONNAME has the first say on the issue, within the context of WP:NAMECHANGES due to recent changes in the region (meaning that we must look for sources since Azerbaijan's takeover of the city). Paul Vaurie (talk) 19:19, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, same reason the Urfa article is not called “Şanlıurfa” even though that’s what it’s officially called by the state and what shows up on Google, it’s not the common name in English. Same goes for Stepanakert, which is still by a large margin the most commonly used name for the city. Recent reliable international third-party sources in the English language virtually all use Stepanakert alongside Khankendi even though it’s not official anymore because it is the common name (Few examples: [6][7][8]) All these sources refer to the city as Stepanakert in the present day not as a former name, the consensus wording among recent sources post the Azerbaijani offensive is saying known to Armenians as Stepanakert and Azeris as Khankendi, they’re almost always mentioned together. Seeing as for the past 100 years the city has been known as Stepanakert, where it became a regional capital and then a breakaway capital, reaching 75,000 people who all call it Stepanakert, even in exile, and now the city has lost its importance and become a ghost town, its safe to say the numerous consensus’ that have been reached regarding Stepanakert as the common name in English still stand. Also WP:NAMECHANGES does not really apply because Azerbaijan renamed Stepanakert 30 years ago, it’s not a recent change. TagaworShah (talk) 00:37, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    TagaworSha — I really don't see where exactly Stepanakert is being used (currently) as the COMMONNAME for the city. WP:NAMECHANGES is extremely relevant in this scenario, because Azerbaijan has only actually had control of the city since late September/early October. De facto, the city's name changed from Stepanakert to Khankendi after Azerbaijan took control, because when the Republic of Artsakh was still in control, the name of Stepanakert was still de facto the city's official name (if you get what I mean). As for the sources you provided, The Telegraph was written by the same author who used "Khankendi" a week prior on Al Jazeera (nevermind that The Daily Telegraph is politically biased), and 2 and 3 were written before Azerbaijan gained full control of the city. It would more relevant to find international, third-party reliable sources that are from the past two to three weeks at most. Lastly, this sentence: Seeing as for the past 100 years the city has been known as Stepanakert, where it became a regional capital and then a breakaway capital, reaching 75,000 people who all call it Stepanakert, even in exile, and now the city has lost its importance and become a ghost town, its safe to say the numerous consensus’ that have been reached regarding Stepanakert as the common name in English still stand; it's not based in any factual interpretation of the current situation or in any Wikipedia guidelines. Who said that the city has "lost its importance"? I would suggest refraining from saying such opinionated statements. Paul Vaurie (talk) 18:26, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    All of the sources currently mention the city as being named Stepanakert by its almost entirely Armenian inhabitants, a city going from a bustling capital to a ghost town is not an opinionated statement, it’s the facts on the ground. There is no name change that happened, Azerbaijan has called it Khankendi for the past 30 years and none of the changes you mentioned, like Google, are recent, they have been in place for a while. Armenians still continue to call it Stepanakert, all the sources I presented are after the dissolution of the Artsakh republic which shows that they are not referencing the former de-facto authorities but actively confirming that the name is still used in the present day. Virtually all the reliable English-language sources continue to use both names to this day, even the own sources you provided prove that, so how is it not used in the present day? Stepanakert is the established English language common name and it is still used side by side Khankendi in sources, there are no changes to the status quo in how it is portrayed by reliable international news outlets, changes in political regime and google are not what Wikipedia goes off of. TagaworShah (talk) 18:43, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I appreciate your arguments but the proof you provided is inadequate, and NAMECHANGES does take precedence here, since those in de facto control of the city have only been calling it Khankendi since this year. I've provided more sources that show the usage of Khankendi in the past few weeks by third-party, reliable, international English-language sources.
    Another example that I found: Agence France-Presse (reliable third-party source) says Khankendi, which Armenians referred to as Stepanakert, showing the preferred current usage of Khankendi as the COMMONNAME today. Paul Vaurie (talk) 19:15, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    None of the sources you presented prove that the city is not still called Stepanakert on the present day, take again for example Urfa and this New York Times article [9], they call it Sanliurfa in the title and throughout the article but add that locals still call it Urfa, which is the English language common name. These sources are doing the same thing, all of them mention Stepanakert alongside Khankendi, it’s never just Khankendi. The specific article you’re referring to is referencing the Artsakh republic when they said “called,” Armenians still call it Stepanakert and that is reflected in all the RS who mention it as Stepanakert to the Armenians, who btw are still the entire local population of the city even with only 50-1000 people left, and they still call their city Stepanakert. Also AFP just last month wrote an article titled Stepanakert Streets Empty After Azerbaijani Operation In Nagorno-Karabakh[10] where they said The streets of Stepanakert, known as Khankendi in Azerbaijani this was also after the flight of the Karabakh Armenians and the assumption of de facto control of the area by Azerbaijan. All the sources continue to use Stepanakert, which means it remains the common name even if Khankendi is used beside it due to official purposes like Sanliurfa and Urfa. There is no evidence that the name Stepanakert is no longer widely used in English sources. TagaworShah (talk) 23:14, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    1. I don't believe making parallels to Sanliurfa and Urfa to be of any use, because those names can be used interchangeably, while Khankendi and Stepanakert are usually not used interchangeably. I suggest dropping this comparison— it's not particularly relevant.
    2. What I'm seeing from sources like AFP and AP is that Khankendi is being mentioned as the established name of the city, followed by a clarification that Armenians refer(red) to the city as Stepanakert. This format is in "favor" of Khankendi as the COMMONNAME.
    3. Whether there are 50 or 1,000 residents left and whether they are Armenian or not is irrelevant. What matters is the English-language common name for the city since Azerbaijani control.
    4. The AFP article I cited is dated from November 8th; the one you cited is from October 3rd. The Flight of Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians only ended on October 3rd. The later article is more relevant.
    5. "All the sources continue to use Stepanakert" — that's not what I'm seeing.
    6. "it remains the common name even if Khankendi is used beside it due to official purposes" — from the sources I am seeing, it's actually the opposite; I see Stepanakert being mentioned for contextual purposes, but not as the common name. Paul Vaurie (talk) 03:57, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think it's even possible anymore to say such a statement like All the sources continue to use Stepanakert — that's just blatantly untrue. A very reliable, reputable, international, third-party source such as the Associated Press is referring to the city as "Khankendi" over "Stepanakert", as shown here. AP is saying Khankendi, which Armenians called Stepanakert; this is quite clear in what the common name is. And as you know, articles by the Associated Press are diffused all over the world by its associated newspapers and websites, from here to here to here. Paul Vaurie (talk) 04:08, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Radio Free Europe has adopted the change [11]. — BillHPike (talk, contribs) 00:59, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Note: They actually haven’t, that article is a translation of RFE/RL’s Azerbaijani service which has always used Khankendi instead of Stepanakert, the international RFE/RL uses both names like this: “Abandoned vehicles line the roads on October 2 in Stepanakert, known as Xankendi by Azerbaijan, following the mass exodus of ethnic Armenians from the Nagorno-Karabakh region.” https://www.rferl.org/amp/azerbaijan-seizes-lifeless-nagorno-karabakh/32620674.html TagaworShah (talk) 01:18, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(jabz) 04:18, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. The city is now part of Azerbaijan both de-jure and de-facto. And I think WP:NAMECHANGES is relevant here because even though the name was officially changed 30 years ago, the name change is taking full effect now. Grandmaster 09:15, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and close The WP:COMMONNAME is not “Khankendi”, it’s “Stepanakert” by a long mile, per Google:
  1. Stepanakert - 2 090 000 results
  2. Khankendi - 424 000 results
Stepanakert is nearly 5 times more common. Wikipedia goes by WP:COMMONNAME for article titles and the common name is evident here. Moreover, this move request was started with a false claim that Khankendi is the common name, which is evidently not the case. If Khankendi becomes the common name we can revisit this discussion, but right now, Stepanakert is clearly more common. Vanezi (talk) 10:44, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NAMECHANGES comes into play here; search results from years prior do not hold as much value as those in the past month. Therefore, your Google search results don't indicate what you claim. Paul Vaurie (talk) 23:37, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Name change does not apply because it is not a recent change, Azerbaijan has tried to replace the name Stepanakert for over thirty years now. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 23:22, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@KhndzorUtogh: Up until late September, the de facto breakaway Republic of Artsakh was in control of the city, and under that state's authority, the city was officially known as Stepanakert. Azerbaijan has only had de facto control over the city since late September to early October. Otherwise, de jure, Stepanakert has been called Khankendi for over 30 years. The issue is that the name change is a de facto name change within the city itself. NAMECHANGES does apply, and thus, COMMONNAME must be evaluated in the context of Azerbaijani control in the past month or so. Paul Vaurie (talk) 04:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now My view is simply that the circumstances of the shift require a waiting period before its consequences can be properly ascertained in an encyclopedic manner.
Official names are not necessarily used on en-WP.
Last I did any sort of checking, cherry-picked listings of well-known RS notwithstanding, the COMMONNAME was still clearly Stepanakert. Time will tell how universally the shift is adopted.
Furthermore, OP's invocation of WP:NAMECHANGES is mistaken because the Azeri name was already Khankendi. The only thing that has changed is that the Azeri government has decided to forcefully impose its unilateral will on the population of Nagorno-Karabakh, resulting in their flight en masse from the region.
I would also just like to note that almost everyone (with the exception of the current OP) whom I have seen suggest this sort of thing appears to be a resident or citizen of Azerbaijan.
There is WP:NODEADLINE. I would be likely to reconsider my position at a much later time. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 14:28, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd note that WP:COMMONNAME advises to take neutrality as well into account. In that regard WP:POVNAME says: "An article title with non-neutral terms cannot simply be a name commonly used in the past; it must be the common name in current use". Here it's clear that the non-neutral name Stepanakert is not in current use anymore, so the COMMONNAME argument is further spurious. Brandmeistertalk 14:43, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a case of neutrality, there are no non-neutral terms in the title like “the great city of Stepanakert” it’s literally just the name of the city in Armenian, that policy does not work like that and should not be applied to cases like this. TagaworShah (talk) 23:17, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A non-neutral term is not necessarily “the great city of Stepanakert”, here Stepanakert is the name under Artsakh Republic which no longer controls the city as a belligerent in the NK war and is set to dissolve itself. Also WP:MODERNPLACENAME says: "For an article about a place whose name has changed over time, context is important. For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name (or local name, if there is no established English name), rather than an older one". Brandmeistertalk 08:11, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Support agree with the nominator. Regarding the numbers in Google search, we should also take into consideration that there're various ways to write the name of the city: Khankendi, Khankandi, Xankandi, Xankändi, Xankendi. So, comparison of "Stepanakert" and "Khankandi" is not fair. Moreover every time you search for a term in Google it shows you different results. Because of their algorithm they cannot provide proper numbers.
And I would like to mention maps too:
  1. Bing - Khankendi
  2. Here Maps - Khankandi
  3. Google - Ստեփանակերտ Xankəndi
    1. They put both names in local, however when you click on it, you see Khankendi on left.
  4. Yandex - Khankendi / Stepanakert
  5. OpenStreetMap - Xankəndi
  6. Baidu - Xankendi
Aredoros87 (talk) 14:59, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. We cannot play 3 monkeys anymore. things have changed on the ground and also in the English sources..I don't see any valid reason any more to keep the current name. As I mentioned earlier, in addition to big media outlets, search engines, online maps and being official, Khankendi is also preferred by English reference sources/dictionaries such as Oxford Reference, britannica.encyclopedia.com.Yakamoz51 (talk) 09:41, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion by non-ECP editors that are not allowed to participate in move discussions in the Armenia-Azerbaijan topic due to GS/AA Donald Albury 14:46, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Support per nom. WP:COMMONNAME is not Stepanakert. Stepanakert is historical name in Armenian given by Armenian inhabitants of region in the past. Not "English" name. There is also no evidence for Armenian name of city "Stepanakert" in current maps, news or other sources. Including official sources in English (maybe except for Armenian sources).
When we examine the search results and news of the last three months on Google, we see that the name Khankendi is common
While the name of the city is stated as Khankendi in English in current news sources, many news sources also specifically state in their articles that the name Stepanakert is the name given by the Armenians (not common name in English) to the city of Khnakendi.
Hezarfen (talk) 14:35, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion by non-ECP editors that are not allowed to participate in move discussions in the Armenia-Azerbaijan topic due to GS/AA Donald Albury 01:11, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, both for the majority of sources using Stepanakert, and for recognizability and naturalness (WP:CRITERIA) because is most significant for the period of growth and city-status beginning in 1926 until the population was ethnically cleansed (refer to the demographics chart). KhndzorUtogh (talk) 23:21, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    However, you fail to provide the evidence that COMMONNAME is in favor of the usage of the term Stepanakert. From sources such as AP, AFP, France 24, Al Jazeera, and others cited above, the COMMONNAME seems to be Khankendi from my evaluation. Note that sources since the change in the control of the city are given more weight than those prior due to WP:NAMECHANGES (de facto).
    Additionally, both Khankendi and Stepanakert pass the recognizability test; however, the naturalness test is subjective here and would be based on the COMMONNAME. Also, I would refrain from bringing in outside arguments (which you did when talking about ethnic cleansing, which is not relevant to the task at hand of finding the proper English-language COMMONNAME). Paul Vaurie (talk) 04:25, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per reasons listed above. Stepanakert is still the most WP:COMMONNAME, and we ought to wait for the name to become more established before moving the article. It's only been a month and a half. Sawyer-mcdonell (talk) 01:45, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Sawyer-mcdonell: I appreciate your input. However, it would be even more valuable if you referenced sources or other information supporting that Stepanakert is still the COMMONNAME. Stating it doesn't make it true. Likewise, sources are provided above in argument for Khankendi. Paul Vaurie (talk) 04:43, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
From opposing comments, I understand that Stepanakert is the common name among Armenian population who used to live there, and other people who had some connections with the city. But we are not doing a poll here and ask whether you are in favor or opposing the change. There should be some recent and reliable sources to assume it is the WP:COMMONNAME.
Btw, the change is also not a month and a half old. Britannica says "the city was founded after the October Revolution (1917) on the site of the village of Khankendy and was renamed Stepanakert in 1923" So it had the name of Khankendi until the Soviets changed it. And later, Azerbaijan "officially" renamed it as Xankändi during their independence from USSR. However, English sources preferred its "de facto" name until recent changes on the ground.
Now, English sources (newspapers, maps, encyclopeadias, search engines) overwhelmingly prefers again Khankendi. And there is an increasing trend as you can see from the old talks. Yakamoz51 (talk) 06:34, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Stepanakert&oldid=1185048892"