Talk:David Deida

Critics

Who are these critics of Deida and can somebody please cite them accordingly? It is quite humorous that the "lack of a formal academic degree" discredits this marvelous work... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.159.113.89 (talk) 20:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

removals

I have removed material from this article that does not comply with our policy on the biographies of living persons. Biographical material must always be referenced from reliable sources, especially negative material. Negative material that does not comply with that must be immediately removed. Note that the removal does not imply that the information is either true or false.

Please do not reinsert this material unless you can provide reliable citations, and can ensure it is written in a neutral tone. Please review the relevant policies before editing in this regard. Editors should note that failure to follow this policy may result in the removal of editing privileges.--Scott MacDonald (talk) 18:34, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

POV

article is still too detailed in a subtly promotional manner. Subjects like this are often written about from the POV of someone "in the know" about the various areas of knowledge he touches on. article should assume that the reader is not familiar with this field, and needs clear explanations. perhaps the wikiproject sexuality group could help here, so i tagged it.(mercurywoodrose)66.80.6.163 (talk) 20:25, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Citations and Reliable Sources

The majority of the citations in this article are invalid either because they do not mention the subject (David Deida) and/or the feature inline URL's and links. There are not footnotes, these are citations for verifiable sources that the support text in the article. Please read WP:CITE and WP:RS and /or WP:V before adding any citations to this article as many of the former editors have added links and content that falsely represent citations. I assume this was done in good faith, but now we should correct this. Thank you for your help. Cheers!-- — Keithbob • Talk • 00:24, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Off Topic Info Removed

It is not appropriate to cite or discuss specifics from the author's books in his bio. These details belong in articles on the books themselves so I am pasting that text here. It is OK to mention the books he published and give a one sentence description of the book but any detailed analysis of the books is not proper for a biography which is about the events in the person's life.

• Many of Deida’s earlier unpublished written works are privately distributed and based upon the integration of his many fields of study. Among Deida’s published works, the following themes are demonstrated, listed in approximate chronological order.

While developing a mathematics of cognitive distinction based on G. Spencer-Brown’s Laws of Form, Deida published several papers on a new system of formal representation of self-boundaries, space and time: “The Form of Duality: Objectification as Implicate Time (1985)”, “Some Fundamental Aspects of the Indicational Calculus and the Eigenbehavior of Extended Forms (1985)”, “The Indicational Calculus and Trialectics (1985)”, “An Approach to a Mathematics of Phenomena: Canonical Aspects of Reentrant Form Eigenbehavior in the Extended Calculus of Indications (1988)”, and “Multiplicity and Indeterminacy in the Dynamics of Formal Indicational Automata (1991).”

Throughout his academic involvement, Deida continued deepening and refining his various spiritual practices and teachings, and eventually decided to shift the focus of his writing to more popular cultural themes of self development and intimacy. In the mid-1990s, Deida began publishing non-academic books on spiritual practice, sociocultural evolution, and nondual sexuality.

His first two published books, Intimate Communion (1995) and It’s a Guy Thing (1997), were oriented to a general readership and introduced some of Deida’s key concepts such as his three-stage model of psycho-sexual development and an understanding of non-gender-based masculine and feminine identities in a Western cultural context. His three-stage model lays the foundation for a developmental understanding and application of how to move from “first-stage” sexually differentiated co-dependence and power struggles, to “second-stage” sexually neutralized co-independence and cooperation, culminating in “third-stage” realization of the nondual unity of consciousness and light, with its potentially sexualized expression in love.

The first stage is characterized by self-serving egotism and also by the traditional 1950’s gender roles of man as breadwinner and woman as stay-at-home mom. Stage two is the “fifty-fifty” level of empathy and balance we see in much of the postmodern West today, where equality and congeniality reign supreme between the genders and our main aspiration is really just to get along. Then there’s stage three, [Deida] says, where we finally break free of the more timid and passionless aspects of second-stage partnership and begin to reawaken the [non-gender-based] masculine devotion to mission or feminine desire for love that allegedly will bring back our vital core energy and lead to a renewed sense of purposeful being…. “There is the [feminine] energetic light aspect of existence, and the [masculine] consciousness aspect of existence, and they are not separate,” Deida says. “Light is the shine of consciousness. Consciousness is the cognizance of light or energy. It’s the knowing aspect of energy, and it’s impossible to separate them. They’re together, and that’s why sex feels so good, because sex is the recapitulation at the human level of consciousness and light in unity.”

In The Way of the Superior Man (1997, 2004), Deida summarizes his three-stage view of men’s socio-cultural evolution in colloquial language: “It is time to evolve beyond the (first-stage) macho jerk ideal, all spine and no heart. It is also time to evolve beyond the (second-stage) sensitive and caring wimp ideal, all heart and no spine. Heart and spine must be united in a single man, and then gone beyond in the fullest expression of love and consciousness possible, which requires a deep relaxation into the infinite openness of this present moment. And this takes a new kind of (third-stage) guts. This is the way of the superior man.”

In 2001 Deida compiled a series of personal essays into a controversial book called Waiting to Love: Rude Essays on Life After Spirituality (2001). This book, currently out of print, stretches the reader away from main-stream and new-age beliefs into a more non-dual approach to life, love, and third-stage intimacy. “Our life is an offering. Can you feel the urge to offer more? Unoffered love is our suffering. Our ungiven gifts clench as stress. Relaxing as now frees the gift our love wants to be. You and I are love’s means. This moment is our offering. We will die fully given, or we will die ungiven, still waiting. Now is our chance.” “If you are waiting for anything or anyone in order to feel more full, free, relaxed, happy, or loving, then you are wasting this moment of your life.”

Deida focuses on women’s third-stage practices involving whole-bodied exercises of compassion and devotion in Dear Lover (2002, 2005): “Whether you are angry or hurt—beneath and through all emotions—your love yearns. This indestructible love is the same love, or openness, that yearns at the heart of all beings. Even when you are tense or upset, you can practice surrendering your body and heart to be breathed open by this love that yearns in everybody’s heart.”

His book Finding God Through Sex (2002, 2005), has a Foreword by Ken Wilber and Deida is one of the, more than 100, founding members of Wilber’s Integral Institute Deida writes on non-sectarian practices for dissolving first-stage fear and second-stage self-boundaries while sustaining third-stage self-integrity-in-communion during sex: “The cultivation of utter freedom—which is to live as the flow of love—can be practiced during sex…. To practice love [during sex] is to be and express your deepest heart, whatever your religious persuasion or chosen spiritual method.”

Deida’s approach to spirituality, considered to be increasingly unorthodox, is perhaps most fully elaborated in Blue Truth (2002, 2005). Referring to Blue Truth, Lama Surya Das categorizes Deida’s emerging orientation as having “...no pigeonhole. He himself is carving out his own territory, like a pioneer, an explorer... [Deida] is in the dynamic living oral tradition of maverick spiritual teachers who, like free-jazz musicians, can riff directly on Reality, outside of established forms.”

Deida’s experimental exploration “outside of established forms” continues in his semi-autobiographical novel, Wild Nights: Conversations with Mykonos about Passionate Love, Extraordinary Sex, and How to Open to God (2005). This story recounts a pivotal period in Deida’s life with friends, sexual intimacy, and God awareness through his time with an unconventional spiritual teacher, Mykonos. This controversial novel was a primary source for a magazine article appearing in 2009, which criticized Deida’s philosophy and use of language by comparing his work to that of filmmaker Quentin Tarantino: “Like Tarantino, who raises pointless conversation to the level of poetry, [Deida] likes to have fun with his audience while always staying one step ahead of them….and Deida’s got the same basic postmodern formula that took Tarantino to Cannes—a posh kind of skepticism, and the incorrigible coolness of not giving a damn.”

One of the many significant expositions that Deida has brought voice to is the applied distinction between therapeutic modalities, yogic practices, and spiritual realization. In the video program Function, Flow & Glow (produced by the Integral Institute), Deida speaks to the confusion of the post-modern Western confluence of therapy, yoga and spiritual ideologies. He delineates the differences by giving clear description to each. “Therapy cures, heals dysfunction into function…it makes yourself better.” “Yoga increases your capacity to allow energy or light to flow through you.” “In spiritual practice, you realize you are the light regardless of your capacity to flow or your wounds. You are the glow of God.”

Deida presents his introductory program for sexual yoga in the book The Enlightened Sex Manual: Sexual Skills for the Superior Lover (2004) and in the audio program Enlightened Sex: Finding Freedom & Fullness Through Sexual Union. Although Deida does not refer to his work as a form of traditional “tantra,” he offers a collection of what some have called neotantra practices of love and expanded awareness in Instant Enlightenment (2007). “…Deida’s ultimate spiritual context for practicing ‘living as love’ in every moment [is] similar to that of classical tantra, the recognition that all manifest existence is essentially a nondual ‘play,’ a divine show of energies, polarities, and sensory objects that move through our day-to-day, moment-to-moment experience but in no way fundamentally define who we are. Instead, we’re defined by our own deep subjectivity, by the space in which all of our experience arises, by the posture of the witnessing consciousness that sees everything coming and going but remains free of and unmoved by any of it.” -- — Keithbob • Talk • 21:57, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

References

Welcome other Editors

Let's work together to improve and develop the article while maintaining all of Wikipedia's encyclopedic standards. If you are new you may make well intended errors that I may need to undo until you learn the basic procedures and policies. I am happy to help you and steer you in the right direction for learning. We can also discuss things here as I am not the owner of this article and Wikipedia is a collaborative venture. Cheers! -- — Keithbob • Talk • 22:50, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Keithbob for the warm reception and redirection to this page to discuss the article. Is it best to :find consensus here first before submitting changes to the article? I apologize if I jumped ahead on this one!

--Jcarey1 (talk) 23:04, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Keithbob! I'd like to add two designations back to the first line in the article, stating that Deida is a teacher, researcher and author. I'm pulling together a list of his workshops which include private functions and at the University level. If I can show that Deida has been actively teaching around the world for some time (w/ appropriate links), then the designation teacher should be fine, correct? Also, I'm pulling together links to the publications/journals where Deida is mentioned for his research. Please see the 'Career' section of the article for an idea of what he worked on from '83-'89. With appropriate citations, the designation researcher should also be appropriate? Thank you! Jcarey1 (talk) 02:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

For now, since you are new, it may be good to discuss changes here first, but its not required. I don't have any problem adding teacher, workshop leader etc. but it has to be properly sourced and what you have described is not proper sourcing. What you have described is called on WP "Original Research". You can read the policy here WP:OR but I'll also explain briefly. Original research is a conclusion that the editor makes based on various sources. ie since Deida has taught here, here and here, he must be a teacher. On WP we don't draw our own conclusions. So what we need is a reliable source (news article, book etc.) that says Deida is a seminar leader, teacher etc. Does this make sense? If you want to help improve the article what you should do is search the web for news and magazine articles that mention Deida and tell who he is and what he does, his bio. Then we can summarize what those articles say and cite those articles. That's how WP operates. Keep in mind we need outside sources, not Deida writing about himself in one of his books or on his web site. Self published sources have limited usage on WP. I hope this helps.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Good quality sources for Deida can be found here.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 21:14, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Articles are Built on Reliable Sources

WP:BLP says "Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. Such material requires a high degree of sensitivity, and must adhere strictly to ..... this policy, and to Wikipedia's three core content policies:

• Neutral point of view see [WP:NPOV] "Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources".
• Verifiability see WP:V "all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation."
• No original research see WP:OR "Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources."-- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:55, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps the worst, most incomplete article i have seen on Wikipedia. In a nutshell, this man built a career selling the idea that men and women can have happy, loving, sexual relationships is the man acts like a caveman, and the woman demurs to him, makes herself available sexually at any time and make him think hes the man. Problem is. His only marriage spectacularly imploded and his wife left him. yes not a single mention of this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.202.157.122 (talk) 11:04, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Long list of Unpublished Essays

I have asked for community input on the long list of un-sourced and un-published (therefore non-notable) writings of Deida. If you would like to participate in the discussion, please click here.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:02, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

The section has been deleted.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:37, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090227011923/http://bodhitree.com/lectures/Deida.html to http://www.bodhitree.com/lectures/Deida.html
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"Career" section sounds very dubious

The article says "From 1976 to 1989, Deida engaged in research with the neuroscientist Francisco Varela and he conducted research with Varela at the Pasteur Institute and Ecole Polytechnique". If he was born in 1958, then he was at most 18 when he started his research. What is more, the order in which the section is written implies that he "was an instructor in Artificial Intelligence at California State University, San Jose and was elected as a Fellow of the Lexington Institute Boston" before the above. I find that a bit hard to believe - most universities don't emply children as "instructors" (whatever that exactly means). I find it even harder to believe in the absence of a source. Is there any reason at all to believe that this information is true? 86.13.184.107 (talk) 18:18, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Having some spare time i searched for David Greenberg as a scholarly author in those years and from the USA.

I have found these two papers:

https://www.tandfonline.com/author/Greenberg%2C+David+R 93.47.178.230 (talk) 14:34, 18 July 2023 (UTC)