Talk:Neuro-sama

Subscriber Count is Misleading

The subscriber count is misleading, as it under the "twitch information" section when it's referring to the YouTube channel. Subscriptions do also exist on twitch, but require payment and work differently then on on YouTube. This might mislead people into thinking that her twitch subscriber count is much higher than it really is (I don't believe the vedal987 channel is partnered anyhow). Huhbilly (talk) 01:42, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello. I can sort of see where you're coming from so I made a few adjustments to the formatting which more easily delineates the boundaries between YouTube and Twitch stats. Most other streamers' and content creators' infoboxes on Wikipedia contain both types of formatting (and also use "followers" and "subscribers" together), so I believe that as long as "subscribers" is labeled specifically under a "YouTube information" header and "followers" is labeled under a "Twitch information" header, then there shouldn't be much, if any, confusion. Meteoric91 (talk) 19:38, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

How about: "she reached 100,000 subscribers on her YouTube channel" or "she reached 100,000 followers on her Twitch channel"

Haram999 (talk) Haram999 (talk) 05:59, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Interaction, worth including?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKqBvNWxJFE has me perplexed. Should it be summarized as the sort of interaction which is typical for Jack's language model hyper-parameter, fine-tuning, and filtering selections? Sandizer (talk) 21:02, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Neurosama's New Model.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:08, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Neuro-sama's Gender

A disagreement has arisen regarding whether Neuro-sama should be referenced using gendered pronouns, i.e. "she/her/hers", versus "it/its". Discussion surrounding gender and AI chatbots in general (with references to Neuro-sama embedded) can be found here. I'm hoping that this topic on Neuro-sama's page can settle the dispute. Meteoric91 (talk) 08:37, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I am of the opinion that Neuro-sama should be referred to as "she/her/hers" and not be referred to as "it/its" for several reasons, which I'll mention in below (copied from my response in Wikipedia talk:Gender identity).

Some well-known chatbots such as ChatGPT, by default, are not designed with any specific attributes that would lead a user to believe that their interactions with the AI are synonymous of those with a gendered individual. Popular virtual assistants, such as Siri, Alexa, and Cortana, though presented with a feminine voice by default, are not designed to portray a gendered character. In these cases, the concept of gender is not a core, identifying feature of the product.

In contrast, Neuro-sama IS designed to embody a large set of gendered characteristics, evidenced by the feminine artistic illustration and aesthetics of the avatar, the feminine voice, and the feminine mannerisms. Thus, the manifestation of the AI system, in this case, is a female virtual character who engages with viewers in real time by responding to their messages or initiating a discussion on a particular topic (on top of singing and playing video games). In addition, the creator, the avatar's illustrator, the avatar's Live2D rigger, the community Neuro-sama is primarily associated with (i.e. the VTuber community), as well as Neuro-sama herself (self-identification) all utilize "she/her" pronouns when referencing said AI manifestation.

The concept of vocaloids, such as Hatsune Miku, was also brought up on that Wikipedia talk page. Miku is a clear example of a program that contains qualities reflective of gender, and her Wikipedia page even uses "she/her" pronouns. I also point out that inanimate objects, such as ships, can also be referenced with "she/her/hers" (predominantly) or "he/him/his" (minorly) pronouns.

So in conclusion, while referring to such gender-portraying chatbots/AI (in this case, Neuro-sama) as "it/its" or "they/their" would technically not be incorrect, the usage of such pronouns would diminish a key identifying feature that these chatbots/AI were explicitly designed to possess. Neuro-sama's feminine manifestation is such a key identifying feature and should be treated as such. Meteoric91 (talk) 08:55, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I'll also copy my comment from the discussion for the record. I do think the original feminine pronouns should be restored:

The language in the article should reflect the language used in the coverage of the topic. On Neuro-sama in particular, the vast majority (if not all) of her coverage uses gendered pronouns (e.g. VTuber Neuro-sama terrifies viewers with her gruesome game concept, "As her name implies, Neuro-sama is essentially a neural network with a VTuber-style face.", "She acts like a regular streamer who plays games and interacts with the chat but she's AI.") I think deviating from the general consensus on the language used on the topic would violate WP:OR, so at least in this case, Neuro-sama should use feminine pronouns. Other AIs should be taken on a case-by-case basis. Qwaiiplayer (talk) 12:31, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Another point from the MOS:GID discussion: we can usefully distinguish between the [feminine-pronoun] "persona" or "character" of Neuro-sama and the [neutral-pronouns] software and hardware maintaining her. – .Raven  .talk 15:24, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Vedal's name

I feel like this page should just refer to the creator's name as Vedal, as the reference for "Jack" ultimately refers to Vedal's personal website (an .xyz page which we can't link to) several years ago, and he has never outright called himself "Jack" to verifiable sources. I propose removing it altogether. Meteoric91 (talk) 17:26, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Meteoric91:  Done. — VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 06:10, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

There were these independent sources, apparently removed as unreliable under WP:VG/RS:

• Narita, Seiji (January 27, 2023). "AI VTuber Neuro-sama is back from its Twitch ban and acting as strange as ever". Automation. Active Gaming Media. Retrieved February 11, 2023.
• "The AI VTuber "Neuro-sama" collaborates with a human VTuber to confuse the other party. Curse developers themselves and talk about murder plans". News Directory 3. February 7, 2023. Retrieved 2023-05-22.

The issue to me is that WP:VG/RS would seem to support those sources, both of which are translated from Japanese, as neither are mentioned specifically and the general guidance is explicitly permissive for corporate news sources on such topics. And if there was confirmation on vedal.xyz at one time which has since been removed, WP:BLPNAME should apply, but it is about as ambivalent as possible for this case, so it comes down to a judgement call. More opinions are needed. Sandizer (talk) 14:15, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Subathon stats

Are they needed, outside of maybe subscribers count? They are artificially boosted by a lot of people afking in front of VODs, and the "most viewed" part refers to watch hours, not peak or average viewers, which isn't obvious even to Twitch users if you don't mention it. SunflowerYuri (talk) 14:14, 6 January 2024 (UTC)