Talk:Urawa Red Diamonds

Here in Guangzhou, we have big respect you you ! Our fans are becoming Chinese number 1 and we aim to reach your standard !! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.5.47.220 (talk) 08:18, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Popularity

Does anybody know approximately how many supporters they have in Japan? --202.47.49.249 11:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Impossible to guess I would have thought. One things for sure, their fan base has doubled since they started winning games three years ago! ;-D ShizuokaSensei 02:42, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

That is actually incorrect. Urawa Reds have been the best supported side in the J-League, home and away, for many years. They were attracting 52,000+ crowds at Saitama Stadium before their first ever trophy win in late 2003. Before then they had to make do with the much smaller Komaba stadium and, even then, had some of the best attendances around. They are also responsible for taking 20,000+ supporters to various away games in Japan (pre and post trophy years). It seems that the poster on here that likes to change the information to paint the Reds in a negative light knows very little about the club and the J-league. Bitter ??? (Jleagueinfo 20:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)).

To set you straight (again) I know a great deal about J-League and it's history. I'm not sure what it is I'm meant to be bitter about; there's certainly no quest to paint Urawa in a bad light. Urawa are one of the best supported teams in Japan. Everyone know this. It's hardly news. What Urawa fans like yourself like do if perpetuate a myth that they are *the* best supporters, the most passionate, the craziest, most feared blah blah blah. This type of prose belongs on an Urtawa fan site, not in an encyclopedia. Having been a regular at J-League games for four years, I can tell you that until recently Urawa's travelling support has been nothing notable. You're removing everything that suggests Urawa are not all-conquering. Example 1: In 1999 they suffered the embarrassment of relegation to J2. For a team with ambitions to be regarded as one of the best in Asia, this is clearly an embarrassment. Example 2: "They finished bottom of J1 for two years with an average crowd of less than 15000." This is fact and is very relevant infomation for a team who, as you demonstrate so well, wants to perpetuate the myth that they've been playing to full stadiums week in week out since the dawn of J-League. Even now the regulaly attracting crowds of over 50000 line is being generous. The general rule is below 50000 with big travelling support swelling the crowd beyond 50000, as yesterday's game demonstrates. Please try to keep in mind this page is to put into context the teams current success - this means highlighting the bad time in the history. Being an Urawa fan, you're writing from a clearly biased point of view.ShizuokaSensei 21:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I see some of your points but, at the same time, you are the polar opposite, painting the Urawa Reds in a negative light. The trophy winning years have certainly not seen our average gates swell. Since the construction of Saitama Stadium in 2002 - pre trophy years - Urawa have regularly been attracting crowds in excess of 50,000. Your writing seems to indicate that the crowds and the passion are attributed to "the glory years". This is CLEARLY not the case. In addition, I have also been to many J-League games with the Urawa Reds since 2002 and they are easily the best supported team both home and away in Japan and, as the facts show, are the best supported team in Asia. I would like you to unprotect the writing and come to an agreement about the info rather than have your own agenda. Also, I have no qualms about our poor record in the J-league. But you are doing the club and it's loyal fans a dis-service. The only reason the attendances were that low was due to the capacity at Komaba stadium. The suporters at the club are the most loyal and passionate in Japan and should be recognised accordingly. We aren't a Man Utd, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barcelona team but one that has had a miserable past but is now reaping the rewards (in a Schalke, Newcastle mould - i.e. a club for the people of Saitama to be proud of). I look forward to your reply. (Jleagueinfo 11:06, 1 October 2007 (UTC)) In addition you state "Having been a regular at J-League games for four years, I can tell you that until recently Urawa's travelling support has been nothing notable.". If you've been going to games for four years, then I assume that you must be going to Urawa reserve games. lol. Since attending my first J-league game in 2002 there haven't been many instances where Urawa haven't taken hugely impressive numbers to away grounds. We regularly take over 20,000 fans to Yokohama, Tokyo, Kashima and can more or less match home crowds down the middle at smaller stadia within a few hours drive. Also: "Urawa are one of the best supported teams in Japan.". One of ? Can you name another team that regularly gets crowds of over 50,000, has a 48,000 average gate and takes as many fans away as Urawa does? Also: "The general rule is below 50000 with big travelling support swelling the crowd beyond 50000". The general rule is that most teams (excl Niigata) get a 3,500/4,000 allocation in one corner. Again, I have to question your "live game" knowledge of Urawa. (Jleagueinfo 11:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC))

Without any references, all we can do is go by the official numbers; a summary of which can be found at ja:浦和レッドダイヤモンズ#年度別観客動員記録と開催スタジアム. The average has certainly gone up in the past three years, and, as you can see at J._League_2005#Attendance or J._League_2004#Attendance, they have not been the most well-supported team at home except in the past year and a half. As for road-support, in Vegalta's J1 days, both Kashima and Urawa travelled to Sendai very well, given their proximity. The year which both games were held at Miyagi Stadium, Kashima outdrew Urawa [1] [2] by approximately 2000, and the Jubilo game drew even more [3], despite their distance. The previous year, Kashima's game was held at Sendai Stadium, but both Urawa and Jubilo were played at the large stadium. Jubilo outdrew Urawa by 5000. [4] [5]. That is far from conclusive evidence to support either side; but, if you want to make claims, you will need to back them up with numbers. What is going on in 2006/2007 is one thing; but, traditionally extends beyond that. Neier 11:31, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Those figures make very interesting reading. What is happening now is one thing, and it's worthy of note, but as a result, what went before becomes even more relevant. I'll tell you again that there is NO bias against Urawa, but for a team that is now doing well, this has to be put into context in relation to their past. This is not doing anyone a dis-service. What does the encyclopedia a dis-service is when team supporters cover articles with unverifiable claims about "the best fans" "the most loyal fans" etc etc. Nothing I added was anything other than fact, not is it in any way trying to do anything else other than put into context the recent successes. I really don't care about Urawa enough, or have the time or inclination, to attempt to make their Wikipedia article paint them in a negative light. You said that they've been regulaly getting gates of over 50000 since 2002, yet their season average didn't reach above 40000 until last year (funnily enough, the year of their first J-League championship. Cooincidence?) ;-)

If visiting teams only receive 4000 tickets, then that's even fewer Urawa fans in the ground when they don't break 40000 (as has happened several times this season). The only times Urawa have got over 50000 this season has been for the opening match or for the big derbies against Tokyo teams / fellow title contenders. With regard taking 20000 to Yokohama, given that it's barely an hour on the train, surely you could better than that? ;) Shimizu S-Pulse often take that to the Shizuoka Derby over an hour away. The point is it's not unique and you're coming purely from an Urawa fan point of view. You have to accept that while in the last three years things have gone very well at Urawa, before this, and in terms of the big picture, Urawa are not the greatest team in the history of Japan with the best and most loyal supporters in the country. As it so happens, my first J-League game involved Urawa. It was 2004 and there must have been no more than a few hundred Urawa there. The corresponding fixture this year they had several thousand. This puts into stark focus you "most loyal" claim.

Jleagueinfo, one fundamental problem which you appear to be missing is the fact that all your writing comes directly from your own experience. It's your research and your opinion. You are very cleary a big Urawa fan, so when you produce sentences like "the suporters at the club are the most loyal and passionate in Japan" you are merely repeating what every supporter thinks about their own team, and to be honest it makes it hard to take your opinions as anything other than a fan of your team unable to accept anything negative beeing written. The very fact it's always "we, we, we" makes your allegiance clear. Having seen your other edits to Marinos and Antlers, you've systematically tried to belittle those teams and their achievements. Criticizing Marinos for not being able to attract good crowds when their average for the last five years is comparable or better than the first ten years of Urawa's existence is an irony not lost on you, I hope. ShizuokaSensei 12:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The reason for the Marinos/Antlers posts was because I thought a fan of one of these clubs was vandalising the "original" content of this site. Now, you just appear to be manipulating the facts in your favour - exactly the same as what I have apparently done. What makes your posting any more credible? You can state you are correct from your angle but so can I. You make no reference to the fact that up until recently we shared many of our home games with Komaba - so of course our average attendance wouldn't look so good. We were still getting the same sort of crowds at Saitama stadium in 2002 as we are now. Perhaps even more !! Certainly not a "glory" trend. I would certainly like to know which team we only took a few hundred supporters to and, again, whether it was a J-League game or Nabisco Cup. Perhaps a Nabisco Cup game in Oita on a cold wednesday winter night - a ninety minute flight away? As for Shimizu, Urawa always tend to fill the away stand behind the goal but "yes" i'll admit we had a tad more there this year (35 - 40% of the stadium). Where is the educating reference about the 2003 Nabisco Cup triumph? As for away gates - I refer to travelling support. Of course Kashima would outdraw Urawa for attendances at away stadiums in the late nineties and early 2000 due to them being the most successful club in Japan. However, their travelling support was much lower than Urawa's. Urawa now finds itself as the best supported club in Asia (in terms of gate figures) - to which this reference has been removed. The numbers they took to Sydney and Jeonju in the ACL was quite impressive as well. I find the material currently representing Urawa on the article as a manipulation of figures and certainly mis-leading. How about you add the fact that they had to share their home games with Komaba and since the move of all home games to Saitama stadium average attendances have risen accordingly to make them the highest attended club in Asia? I don't know why relegation to J2 is an embarrasment either? Certainly we weren't very good then. (86.143.54.177 13:35, 1 October 2007 (UTC))

Please, please, please stop thinking that I am out to get you, your favourite Japanese team or anything else. There is no manipulation of anything going on. If anything I can accuse you of the very same thing. I was at the Shimizu / Urawa game earlier this year and your red-tinted goggles and the Urawa-hype machine in overdrive once more. Urawa supporters had one end and a few hundred more overspill in the corners. 35-40% of the ground? Please. Given how much each stand holds, 25% maximum, and even that's pushing it. My first game (Shimizu / Urawa) was a J-League game, indeed it was midweek, but the contrast between then and now is stark. S-Pulse too had a woeful turnout, there were less that 9000 there and Urawa had no more than a few hundred. Urawa's fans are, on the whole, no more loyal than anyone else. If anything, this year proves just the opposite! The current article is written to hold a balance. Saying Urawa would have been getting more than they got had they had a bigger ground is pure, impossible to prove, speculation. Again, we need CITATIONS and SOURCES before anything about biggest supported club in Asia is added. And finally, the "biggest team in Asia with the best and most loyal support in Japan" didn't find relegation embaressing? Jesus, I support Brighton and everytime we get relegated (happens fairly often) it's a HUGE a bloody embaressment! ShizuokaSensei 13:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Our travelling support was higher than Kashima's, even in their glory years. I hardly think we are responsible for the home supporters turning up at other stadiums though. We were hardly the draw card that Kashima was back then. As for Asian attendances, well, there's only one in this SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_club_attendances_%282007%29

In addition, you're telling me Urawa would only have had 18/19,000 at Saitama Stadium had their Komaba fixtures been switched? lol. Never going to happen. I think the reference should be added that "since they changed all their fixtures to Saitama Stadium" rather than a recent up-turn in form. It's a load of baloney !! Change it !!! Please. I find it hard to fathom that a Shimizu S Pulse supporter can have THE say on another clubs encyclopedia page over a fan who knows more about the club, has been to every away ground currently in J1 and many more home games of the said team. How about we try and reach a compromise with the material which is neither misleading or bias? I think that's a fair call. Any moderators around ?????? (Jleagueinfo 20:43, 1 October 2007 (UTC))(86.143.54.177 14:05, 1 October 2007 (UTC))

Who ever said I was a Shimizu S-Pulse fan!? You've fallen into the trap of thinking that this is somehow motivated by football allegiances. It's not. It's about writing a decent encyclopedia article which doesn't look like a football fan's fan page. I never protected this page, a Wikipedia admin did . Probably one who doesn't even know who Urawa Reds are. It was protected because they recognised, like myself, that most of what you was adding was value laden and not of a neutral POV. It might be worth mentioning something about the change in attendances since the new stadium, but we still have the problem that averages crowds have only incresed in any real sense in the last three years.ShizuokaSensei 21:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

All the article should ever be in impartial. It's impossibly to measure claims of "the best supporters team in Japan" (or most fantatical or loyal etc etc) so that information can simply never be in an encyclopdia. I'm really glad to see that link you point to, as it does go a long way to making us able to mention last year's average crowds. We also have the figures to back up the claim Urawa currently have the biggest home average crowds in the J-League (last season and most likely this one too) but for the previous two years, they didn't. This is fact. What's also fact is that even when Urawa played every game at the smaller stadium not each and every game was a sell out with no emtpy seats to be seen. Had that been the case it might be worth mentioning that had they been playing in another stadium they'd have got more, but even then that's pure speculation, impossible to prove and as such can't bve included in an encyclopedia. The fact is they didn't fill their smaller stadium every week. Anyway, I'm going to have a go at a re-write of the intro to include the new info you've supplied.ShizuokaSensei 00:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, as someone who has been to every J-League stadium, I'm interested to know when it was you visited Shizuoka prefecture? I often go to both Jubilo and S-Pulse games and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on both Nihondaira Stadium and Yamaha Stadium in relation to Ecopa. What did you think of the access to Nihondaira or Yamaha? How did it compare to the issues at Ecopa? Are you still getting to many games this season?ShizuokaSensei 04:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I no longer get to any games as I am no longer living in Japan. However, when I returned for a holiday with my girlfriend last season, we took a few games in. The game at Shimizu (when I went) was actually a 3-4 defeat for us, although we were 3-1 up until Suzuki was sent off. As for Yamaha - you've got me there !! The Jubilo away game was at Ecopa (the stadium in the forest). It was a mid-week game and finished 2-2. I can remember having to catch a bus from the nearest town's train station to the stadium (I thought I was on the wrong bus - full of OAPS and high school girls). One things for sure, Shimizu's support is far more suited to football than Jubilo's. Fun to watch. Also, I can't claim to have followed Urawa to Sydney, Jeonju, Indonesia, etc lol. Following the National Team is good fun as well. Coincidentally, Urawa's average attendance in 2006 included one game at Komaba and I think it will this year also. (Jleagueinfo 09:05, 2 October 2007 (UTC))

So you were at the 4-3 too? That was actually my first J-League game, and despite the terrible crowd that evening had me going back for more! You're not missing anything at Yamaha. It's a pain in the arse to get to (a good 20 miniute bus ride from the station and very little in the way of parking around the ground) and and holds barely 17000. I've only been there once. The Shizuoka derby they put on at Ecopa which is better for all concerned! So you know for next time, there's a station walking distance from Ecopa so you can avoid the bus rides! Saying that, if you came in on the shinkansen it's probably easier just to hop on a bus at Kakegawa. Anyway. :) ShizuokaSensei 11:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot 11:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Again, the reason for lower average attendances in these years has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that Urawa were sharing their games with the much smaller Komaba stadium. Even then, Komaba would be full 19/20,000 and Saitama Stadium would still be attracting 50 odd thousand. Since the move of all games to Saitama stadium the attendance average is now the best in Asia. There is no reference to this in the text, not the 2003 Nabisco Cup victory, or the clubs current situation in Asia and the impressive following it received in Sydney and Jeonju. As for away gates, I mean the number of fans travelling. Of course Kashima would out-draw Urawa in the late nineties and early 2000 at away stadiums because they were the most succesful team in Japan. However, their travelling support was much smaller than Urawa's. A trend which hasn't changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.54.177 (talk) 13:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

So, excuse me if I'm misundertstanding you, but "the most loyal supporters in Japan" were outnumbered in the early 2000's by other teams becuase they weren't doing as well? Urawa now outnumber them becuase you're more succesful? Doesn't do much for your loyalty claim. Bandwagon jumping and fair weather fans is a fact of football all over the world. A big chunk of Urawa's current support are no different. With regards those other points (best current support in Asia, the teams's current "situation" in Asia, "impressive" travelling support to Sydney) these are things you have to back with sources.ShizuokaSensei 13:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Our travelling support was higher than Kashima's, even in their glory years. I hardly think we are responsible for the home supporters turning up at other stadiums though. We were hardly the draw card that Kashima was back then. As for Asian attendances, well, there's only one in this SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_club_attendances_%282007%29

Anyway, how have you suddenly become webmaster for this page? My argument and angle holds just as many facts as your manipulation of the facts does !! What qualifies a Shimizu(86.143.54.177 13:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC))

Agree. I am a Japanese living in Shanghai and find the Urawa information tainted with resentment. I do believe that Urawa played 2 games at Komaba in 2007. Also, if we were to take in only league attendances then the average would be over 50,000. These facts are ignored and I urge the controller of this site to allow enthusiasts with more knowledge regarding Urawa to post the information. As for Urawa being "one of Japan`s best supported clubs" WTF !! When does outnumbering every other attendance by two or three to one (consistently for 8 years) not constitute BEST supported club status? How about the 2007 ACL also receive some more prestige rather than made to be a consolation prize in the gloating of Kashima taking the title from Urawa. Urawa raised the profile of the competition and captured the imagination of football in Japan and on the continent. A very well known club belittled by someone with petty club rivalries at heart. Urawa deserve better on wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.86.1.71 (talk) 12:41, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

The average league attendance in 2007 was 46667. That included two games at Komaba with a capacity of 21500. So if you really want to balance it out, lets add 25167 x 2 (to take those games both up to the average of 46667) to the season total of 793339. Then you have 843673. Divide that by 17 and you get 49629. So we're still not at the magical number of 50000, even if we start thinking about what might have been if such and such game was played at such and such stadium. You can do the same thing for the one game in 2008 at Komaba and you'd also fail to reach a season average of 50000. Who can say if those three games (against Kobe, Oita and Kyoto) would have reached the season average anyway? So it's probably time to let any claims for a 50000+ average gate rest for the time being.

As for your other beefs, it's probably worth remembering all the years (for there were many) when other teams got higher average gates than Urawa. Things changes. Fans come and go with success, and who can say ten years down the line that Urawa will still be getting 40000 on a regular basis? Just look at Verdy Kawasaki. :-D 210.146.178.126 (talk) 02:10, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

The 2010 season ended with a 39941 average crowd, a 9.6% drop on the previous year and 16% down on 2008. At this rate Urawa will be back to their historical average of 25000ish in no time. ;) Joking aside, it clearly highlights the fluxing nature of average gates and how quickly things change. --Publicviewingdays (talk) 13:02, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Propsed new introduction paragraph

• Urawa Red Diamonds (浦和レッドダイヤモンズ, Urawa Reddo Daiyamonzu?) or more simply, Urawa Reds (浦和レッズ, Urawa Rezzu?), is a professional football club in Japan's football league. Since 2006 the club has been able to boast the highest average crowds in both Japan and Asia, averaging well over 40000. The club's move in 2002 to the newly built Saitama Stadium, coupled with an upturn in form, has been responsible for swelling average gates to nearly twice that of their historical average. Its hometown is the city of Saitama in Saitama Prefecture.

What do people think? I cut the regulaly attracting 50000+ crowds line becuase, quite frankly, it's not that regular of an occurance. A handfull of times out of the the season would be a more accurate way to describe it. There's simply no denying the upturn in form is in no small way responsible for the crowds increasing so much since 2004. As we know, the average didn't climb above 40000 until the first championship winning season last year, and Niigata averaged bigger crowds for both 2004 and 2005. The so-called awe-spiring away support has been shown to matched by other teams, and unless we can locate statistics detailing average number of away fans taken on the road by each team, we can't put the information in. Anyway, I have some real work to do. Let me know what you think. ShizuokaSensei 01:03, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

It's an improvement I suppose, although average figures are closer to 50,000 than they are to 40,000. Since 2002, it would be interesting to see how many 50,000+ crowds Urawa have acheived at Saitama Stadium (incl friendly games against Feyenoord, Mau Utd, Barcelona, Munich). I'd wager over 20 times - which is quite regular in my book. As for away crowds, I suppose you'll just have to continue watching the J-league highlights and see which side seems to get a huge proportion of away tickets, fills the away stand and then some. It may be worth your while looking at Urawa Reds Supporters Media and Urawa Reds on You Tube. I'm sure you'll be impressed :-) (Jleagueinfo 09:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC))

Those 50000 busting crowds are still the exception rather than the rule though. I qill change the crowd figure to over 45000 as that's a better reflection of the truth. I do also intend to get the 2003 cup victory info in there somewhere, it just got forgotton a bit with all the other discussions. ShizuokaSensei 11:47, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I hope you've got your ticket for the Shimizu game at Saitama Stadum on 18/11/07 - it's heading for a 60,000 odd sell-out. http://www.urawa-reds.co.jp/index2.html Bottom of the page on the left hand side. All the x's. There are a couple of good (slightly dated) books on the J-league. One - Japanese Rules and, the other, Ultra Nippon - written by a Shimizu S Pulse fan - which, in all fairness, mentions that even in Urawa's relegation year they were the only club that could pack their stadium out throughout the season (and the first place he saw ticket touts in the J-league due to lack of available tickets). He also goes on to describe Jubilo Iwata as the "evil" empire and responsible for bringing the "dark arts" to the J-League. Here's another telling link, about Urawa Reds, for good measure: http://www.wldcup.com/Asia/jleague/reds.html (Jleagueinfo 07:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC))

The thing is, a lot of sites like that one more often than not fail to meet Wikipedia's reliability guidines, and there's still not really much you could take from it, save for some vague line like "regarded by some as the loudest supporters in Japan" which doesn't really cut it for an encyclopedia. The figures we've included do a pretty good job of describing in a measurable way support over the last 14 years. I honestly have no axe to grind or bias against Urawa and I'm looking forward to my trip to Saitama in November. S-Pulse sold out their A Zone tickets before I even realised they were on sale, so I'm in SA Main Away (upper), although that's pretty meaningless to me right now. ;-D I'll just have to wait till I get there. I'm with that author, btw. Jubilo certainly are the Evil Empire. It's just such a tragedy that my better half is a rabid Jubilo fan... It's caused one or two problems I can tell you. We did the double over them this year though, so it's not all bad. :-) ShizuokaSensei 11:07, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I undid the recent revision to the intro paragraph as it repeated itself (it's already stated the team moving to the bigger Saitama Stadium impacted on average crowds), and the average crowd last season was over 45000, not 46000. Given the contentious nature of this article recently it's probably best to propose changes to here. Especially for the intro paragraph which had been discussed and, I thought, agreed on. ShizuokaSensei 23:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Another 50,000 plus crowd at the Saisuta again today. I think should you check the attendances on the www.goal2002.com website you'll find there have been enough 50,000+ crowds this season to warrant a return of "regularly attract 50,000+ crowds". But please note 50,000+ crowds at the Saisuta were common before our trophy years. The actual content of the page, before it was changed, did paint an accurate picture. The Reds are a success as a self-sustainable club in Japan and no matter which way you want to look at it, are a special club in the J-league. You don't have to be a Reds supporter to see that. (81.159.145.220 18:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC))

The key word is regularly, and from 20 league and cup games at the Saitama this year, only 6 have broken 50000 with several around the low 30000s. To be fair, the final two home games (and the second leg of the ACL final) will be too, but that will still be only around 30%. I'd presume that for less successful seasons that figure was lower. At the end of the season the new average figures will be available and we can take info from that to paint a better picture. With regard your last couple of sentences, please please bare in mind the big picture. Reds are doing well now but Kashima won the J-League three times in four years (or four times in six, depending on how you look at it) not so long ago, and have since gone off the boil. J-League is far more fluid than the Premier League (thank God) so until we have evidence of sustained success over a period of several years claims of 'special teams' are a little premature. On a different note, S-Pulse have sold all their away tickets from next month (A Zone, SA, SB and SC) and I've been trying to find out a figure, but not getting anywhere. Has to be at least 5000 in a stadium that size? ShizuokaSensei 21:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

• • Just as an aside, it's turned out that the statement above about Antlers going "off the boil" couldn't have been more inaccurate! --OrangeWinghead (talk) 03:07, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Further to the above, I've been having a look through stats in an effort to give some weight to points made about large support. Not 100% on the figures yet, but how does the following sound?:

Urawa Red Diamonds (浦和レッドダイヤモンズ, Urawa Reddo Daiyamonzu?) or more simply, Urawa Reds (浦和レッズ, Urawa Rezzu?), is a professional football club in Japan's football league. One of Japan's best supported teams, the club has been able to boast the highest average crowds for eight of the J-League's fourteen season history. In 2006 Urawa averaged over 45000, both the biggest in Japan and in Asia as a whole. The club's move in 2002 to the newly built Saitama Stadium, coupled with an upturn in form, has been responsible for swelling average gates to nearly twice that of their historical average. Its hometown is the city of Saitama in Saitama Prefecture.

How's it sound to the Urawa fans? I'm pretty sure the eight out of fourteen is accurate, but I didn't have enough time to check every team's averages. ShizuokaSensei 06:46, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'm going to update the page with the above information (save for the fact it was 7 seasons out of 14, rather than 8). There's no evidence to suggest any mitigating circumstances for being out-supported for the other seven years. Regardless of being in the smaller ground in the early nineties they weren't filling it like they did in the late nineties, nor can relegation in 2000 be used to excuse the 17000 average: Albirex Niigata managed an average of over 30000 while in J2.ShizuokaSensei 05:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Video on youtube

An interesting English language programme has just been released regarding the Reds, series title: Kings of Clubs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNZOtRgV5hU&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IHiohiYmm4&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QK-T3Qgl2U&mode=related&search=

Part 3 produces a lot of well known facts about the club. (86.149.130.22 20:36, 11 October 2007 (UTC))

Rather than posting links to a You Tube video in the middle of the article, what you have to do is take the facts you're citing from it and then reference the source at the botom of the page as a reference. What information are you wanting to cite from this video? ShizuokaSensei 21:47, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

International Games section

The effort gone into is awesome, but I'm not convinced of the worth of listing a teams every international game. I can't see a precedent on other more internationally prolific teams, and should this be done for certain teams it would stretch over several pages! Am I alone in this opinion? I'd suggest at least that it be moved to the main competition record article.--OrangeWinghead (talk) 00:39, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

• OK, I'm going to move it to the competition record page. While it's a useful reference for some information, it heads into the realm of obscure football statistics and can't really justify cluttering up the main article. OrangeWinghead (talk) 03:17, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Controversies

Should we be talking about the Reds' recent racist incident on March 8?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-14/racist-sign-leads-to-all-fans-banned-from-j-league-game/5321298 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kumazaki.Yuuji (talk • contribs) 05:23, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, we should. Definitely. This is amazingly huge news in the responses-to-racism-in-Japan world. --Douglaspperkins (talk) 08:21, 17 March 2014 (UTC)