Talk:Tornado outbreak of April 25–28, 2024

Re-draftify

This article should be re-draftified for not having enough information. 204.98.124.205 (talk) 01:26, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

It's already been requested over at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests. ~ Tails Wx (🐾, me!) 01:41, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Second this. We need to wait for more information to come out tommorow, please put this in drafts ASAP. HamiltonthesixXmusic (talk) 02:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

OK, the first damage surveys have been released on social media for the initial Elkhorn/Lincoln area tornadoes. Article is good enough to be published independently and linked to mainspace Tornadoes of 2024. HamiltonthesixXmusic (talk) 19:47, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I’d like to request that bot thingy come and archive this section and any other sections that are no longer relevant 2601:5C5:4201:68B0:1C33:5BDD:23B8:FA6D (talk) 00:58, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Might be ClueBot III, don’t know for sure. Just guessing based on the edit history of another article’s talk page with recent archiving. 2601:5C5:4201:68B0:1C33:5BDD:23B8:FA6D (talk) 05:00, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Image used is copyrighted

The "Blair, NE" tornado photo is a screenshot of a copyrighted video which was taken by an unknown man. I have seen this making the rounds on social media, I just wanted to let you know that this image is 100% a copyvio. MemeGod ._. (talk) 01:36, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

iowa

what about the tornadoes in iowa? underwood, minden, shelby, tennant, so on and so fourth? 2600:8804:168B:4000:812B:C115:B336:D847 (talk) 03:23, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Pertinent information will be reflected as appropriate sources (i.e. NWS surveys) come out. Though I will agree Minden seems to be one of the hardest hit communities. AllTheUsernamesAreInUse (talk) 02:23, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Surveys have not been completed; the Iowa tornadoes will be added when they are finished. EPhC4 (talk) 17:50, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Potential EF4-EF5

a bunch of professional storm chasers and weather agencies are calling the Blair-Elkhorn wedge tornado a potential EF4+, so a lot of information might come crashing in here in the coming days. This outbreak is more significant than I thought it would be. MemeGod ._. (talk) 15:20, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, but I really wouldn't spectate on the tornado's rating or the significance of the tornado outbreak itself in general until the NWS surveys come out. ~ Tails Wx (🐾, me!) 15:26, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Potentially, but the lack of any reports of major damage there or in Minden (I think the same exact tornado) makes me think it wouldn't reach anything beyond EF3-EF4 but I don't want to speculate. PaulRKil (talk) 15:37, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Mìnđến was a different tornado. The Blair one hit parts of Omaha, and there is very, very clear EF4 damage. While I’m not saying it should be prematurely rated as such, I was just saying that we should prepare for a ton of info to start coming in quickly. MemeGod ._. (talk) 15:49, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Remember how a lot of social media personalities and agencies thought the Matador tornado was a EF4+ last year, but was actually rated high end EF3. Please wait for official NWS assessments to be released on social media, or other credible rating from the DAT for reference and addition onto here. HamiltonthesixXmusic (talk) 19:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Strongest tornado with damage reports was the tornado near Elkhorn, Nebraska, which is speculated to be EF3. The tornadoes yesterday (April 27) have not had as much time to be assessed, so we will see. 2605:A601:A0F2:8600:FB92:2CCD:C381:68AD (talk) 17:42, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Elkhorn could have been an EF3 or low - mid EF4. EPhC4 (talk) 17:43, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

"Speculated".

Wikipedia is not Reddit, Twitter, Facebook or like any other social media app. When a fact is verified this page can be revised or expanded upon. No other exceptions. HamiltonthesixXmusic (talk) 19:01, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

The tornado near Minden did have possible F5 winds but it only had EF3 damage. EPhC4 (talk) 21:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Absolute insanity in Oklahoma

There are 5 PDS warnings active, 3+ wedge tornadoes on the ground, and the Ardmore HS is currently on fire. This article needs updated ASAP MemeGod ._. (talk) 04:10, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Fatalities

At least 1 reported in Holdenville so far: [1] --Kuzwa (talk) 11:30, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

One more, also another confirmed death in Sulphur. MemeGod ._. (talk) 13:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Rating in Infobox

While I'm sure this outbreak has some violent (EF4+) tornadoes in this outbreak, it appears there's no tornado currently with even an official preliminary rating of EF2+. Maybe change the rating in the infobox to EF2+ until the NWS actually gives a higher rating. Halls4521 (talk) 18:01, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the tornado in Elkhorn, NE, had a preliminary rating of EF3. EPhC4 (talk) 18:37, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

However, the article currently doesn't have any available references to any preliminary EF3 rating, much less one that's higher ( at least the ones shown in the confirmed tornadoes table). Until an official (NWS/SPC) one is found, hopefully soon, I think it be best the Infobox display the highest rating we're currently able to confirm (EF2+).--Halls4521 (talk) 18:51, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

NWS Omaha said that they found evidence consistent of EF3+ strength in some areas but never said where. So no individual tornado has been rated EF3 but it appears as though EF3 damage was found. That's probably why the max rating in the infobox is EF3+ JimmyTheMarble (talk) 18:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Okay then, I'll leave it as is. Thanks.--Halls4521 (talk) 19:00, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Per the following news article they assigned that preliminary EF3 to the Elkhorn tonado. Fatalities have also increased to 4. [2] --Kuzwa (talk) 19:02, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

More images

I think we need more images from tornado damage. Doe anyone know any images that have no copyright? Floriangkmcc (talk) 18:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

As of right now, there aren't many copyright-free damage images. I'd wait a few days until the NWS posts the results to the surveys, which usually includes damage images. MemeGod ._. (talk) 18:53, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

I do have an image of the Sulphur, Oklahoma tornado, but I have no idea where I'd put it. MemeGod ._. (talk) 18:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

I know I'm late to this talk, but I have a myriad of images I took in and around Marietta including the image I added to the weather info box for the Marietta tornado. If you want more, I will provide . JasRazz (talk) 02:42, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Vandalism

The vandalism in this article is crazy. We need to semi-protect this article ASAP. D.P.K (talk) 22:13, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

@TheEasternEditer: If the vandalism resumes, please make a report to WP:RfPP for temporary semi-protection, or I will do so if I notice further vandalism. ChrisWx 🌀 (talk - contribs) 22:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

I'd prefer if you handle the report. D.P.K (talk) 22:17, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Will do, if I notice vandalism on the page again. ChrisWx 🌀 (talk - contribs) 22:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Flooding

Shouldn’t the flooding be added to the event since the wpc did issue a large risk for flooding and that the flooding was pretty bad for Oklahoma Colin777724 (talk) 22:54, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

That's a good idea. ChessEric 01:20, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Damage?

Our list contains no tornado identified as Elkton or Lincoln nor mentions any tornado destroying a single home. Not in line with the images on the news reports. Rmhermen (talk) 23:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

@Rmhermen: There are tornadoes listed for Elkhorn and Lincoln, NE (under "SE of Yutan, NE to Elkhorn, NE to Modale, IA" and "Northern Lincoln to Waverly to SW of Ashland" respectively) and we do list some homes being destroyed in some entries, such as the Minden, IA tornado. The reason why some information is missing because the event happened recently, and the information simply hasn't come out yet. ChrisWx 🌀 (talk - contribs) 00:16, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, I fixed the header to be 2 "==" on each side, if there is an issue with that, please let me know. Thank you, ChrisWx 🌀 (talk - contribs) 00:18, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

problem

I accidentally duplicated everything because the page looked empty. I tried to re add all the topics but it ended up duplicating everything, and I can’t undo it, can someone fix this. EPhC4 (talk) 00:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done here. ChrisWx 🌀 (talk - contribs) 00:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. EPhC4 (talk) 00:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome. ChrisWx 🌀 (talk - contribs) 01:50, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Synthesis and some missing citations

So a tag has been placed on some text indicating possible OR/synthesis in this article, and I've added an additional cn tag. Some statements pertaining to PDS tornado warnings also lack citations. I have work to do tonight but I figured I'd pop in. TornadoLGS (talk) 00:28, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Velocity scan of the Elkhorn tornado

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2024_Elkhorn_Tornado_on_Velocity.jpg I have a picture of the velocity scan of the Elkhorn, Ne tornado if anyone wants to use it in the article. Gavintheweather (talk) 15:41, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Conflict with official tornado c ount

How are you all counting only 56 tornadoes with this event? The SPC storm reports lists 178 unfiltered and 145 filtered tornadoes over the 4-day period. -Rolypolyman (talk) 19:40, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Some tornadoes were reported may times 2600:1014:B138:C8E6:0:6:4FAE:3701 (talk) 19:45, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Many tornadoes have been unconfirmed/reported multiple times, the count can definitely go up as info is sorted. MemeGod ._. (talk) 19:46, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Title

I think this is more of a tornado outbreak than tornado outbreak sequence 2600:1014:B138:C8E6:0:6:4FAE:3701 (talk) 19:46, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

This is a tornado outbreak sequence, as violent tornadoes were reported on April 26, 27 and 28. MemeGod ._. (talk) 19:47, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Only one violent tornado occurred, plus a tornado outbreak sequence has to be 5 days or longer 2600:1014:B138:C8E6:0:6:4FAE:3701 (talk) 19:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

1. Doesn't have to have a minimum amount of days (a few days suffices)
2. Sorry, not violent, EF2+. There have been 3+ days of EF2+ tornadoes.

MemeGod ._. (talk) 19:51, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Possibly may continue until the 31 if a tornado occurs today 2600:1014:B138:C8E6:0:6:4FAE:3701 (talk) 19:55, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

You predicted the future MemeGod ._. (talk) 12:18, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

This was caused by two separate systems in close proximity, so this suffices as a sequence. See above discussions. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 19:55, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Ardmore tornado

Why is it listed as an EF?. It is shown as an EF2 on the DAT. 2600:1014:B138:C8E6:0:6:4FAE:3701 (talk) 19:58, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Holdenville tornado

The DAT only list its as an EF3, not EF3+ 2600:1014:B138:C8E6:0:6:4FAE:3701 (talk) 20:10, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

As of a few minutes ago, the Holdenville tornado is no longer listed as EF3+ here. TornadoLGS (talk) 20:12, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Hey ClueBot!!

I’ve got a few obsolete talk page entries on here to be archived. 2601:5C5:4201:68B0:1C33:5BDD:23B8:FA6D (talk) 05:06, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think archiving discussions that aren't even a week old is a critical priority. Master of Time (talk) 16:04, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Well I’m always a stickler for not having obsolete entries in a talk page. I’m in the mindset that someone might accidentally duplicate something that has already been done. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:994F:43F1:5581:8D85 (talk) 17:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Sulphur tornado

When more information comes out, I think an article should be made for the tornado. Yshehru72727 (talk) 12:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Already working on it, as of right now the community has come to a concensus that it should stay a draft until WP:NEVENT is satisfied and that this tornado has proved notable. See Draft:2024 Sulphur tornado. MemeGod ._. (talk) 13:18, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

extending the article to include the 29?

since there were tornados on the 29th would it be beneficial to add the 29th? and possibly the 30th and 1st depending on what happens? 50.201.134.50 (talk) 14:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

They did issue a Tornado Watch for parts of Iowa and Nebraska for today. 2601:5C5:4201:68B0:B17C:1145:B767:8AC6 (talk) 18:46, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

No tornadoes happened on the 29 Yshehru72727 (talk) 20:38, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Exactly 2601:5C5:4201:68B0:B17C:1145:B767:8AC6 (talk) 21:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

One has been reported near Grantsville, KS on the 29th, and we had another wave of strong tornadoes and a fatality on the 30th. We should at least consider expanding the article. Thoughts?

TornadoInformation12

TornadoInformation12 (talk) 04:55, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I think we should Yshehru72727 (talk) 12:14, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Isn't what happened last night a separate outbreak? I may be wrong, but it was formed by a different trough and line effectively making it a completely different storm. MemeGod ._. (talk) 12:15, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

An outbreak sequence can have multiple troughs Yshehru72727 (talk) 12:16, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose I think there should be a separate article on account of the fact that April 28th saw NO tornadoes. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:994F:43F1:5581:8D85 (talk) 17:47, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

April 29 and 30

These days should be included in the article and title. A tornado touched down in Northeast Kansas on April 29. An outbreak of at least 13 tornadoes happened on April 30. A few of the tornadoes on the 30th were intense to violent. Also, at least 1 person was killed on April 30. Yshehru72727 (talk) 12:42, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah but NO severe storms happened on the 29th. That broke the streak. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:C5F8:EAF6:E74F:F1B0 (talk) 15:35, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

The report for the 29th is erroneous, the tornado actually happened on the 30th. Awesomeness16807 (talk) 20:39, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Multiple major tornadoes happened on the 30th, including the one that looped back on itself and the briefly stationary anticyclonic tornado. - Tenebris 66.11.165.110 (talk) 07:37, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Description of random radar images and loops as "public domain"

This discussion explicitly mentions a rad loop in this article, but figured I'd mention it here too. Just because a radar loop some random Twitter person made uses NEXRAD data doesn't make it public domain. See the broader discussion here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Severe weather#Description of random radar images and loops as "public domain". Master of Time (talk) 00:40, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

They are per a Wikimedia Commons’s administrator after a duplicate question arose over there. I quoted it and linked it in that other discussion. Either way, case was already solved for us last year. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:04, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I think if it comes from somewhere like Radarscope for instance and it is clearly NOT on NWS servers; then I think it should be considered copyrighted because Radarscope imposes a copyright. I imagine GR2Anylast does too but NWS does host some images on their servers (thus making the NWS images public domain) 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:994F:43F1:5581:8D85 (talk) 17:50, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Especially if it has say a Radarscope logo on it or something. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s just my opinion anyway. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:994F:43F1:5581:8D85 (talk) 17:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I am obviously not a Philadelphia lawyer. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:994F:43F1:5581:8D85 (talk) 17:52, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Keeping in mind that the radar images are generally screenshots of non-free software. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:994F:43F1:5581:8D85 (talk) 17:54, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Per an administrator on the Wikimedia Commons: “The data is clearly PD. While the software which was used to present it is copyrighted, the only human involvement is by the uploader…It is well established the output of a computer does not itself have a copyright unless it is derived from a copyrighted work.” The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 18:08, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Marietta tornado gone from article?

looks like the section for the tornado has disappeared, maybe from not enough information or temporary formatting stuff. Pretty important knowing that it was the highest rated tornado of this outbreak so far. JasRazz (talk) 05:52, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

See my talk section below. It's because of NWS Norman and the way they do things. We don't have close to enough official survey info yet, and it will probably be a while until we do.

TornadoInformation12 (talk) 11:40, 4 May 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12

Move Sulphur Back To Table ?

So we really don't have enough info/details right now to do a full summary for Sulphur, and it will likely be a while until we do. Why? Because NWS Norman takes FOREVER to add their damage points to the DAT. NWS Norman has said on Twitter that they always want make sure they have the surveys 100% finished, make sure everything is absolutely correct, and get some post-analysis done before they add any damage points to the DAT. As a result, it's a slower process with them compared to other NWS offices, and they usually don't add the damage points until at least a month or two after an outbreak has happened. However, once they do decide to publish their survey details, everything will be added to the DAT all at once in one big info dump. That's what they did after the Cole/Shawnee outbreak last year, and I believe it was months later. Anyway, permission to merge back to table until DAT info is released? Once it is, I will likely make a full summary for the Marietta EF4 as well. TornadoInformation12 (talk) 11:38, 4 May 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation

Nobody seems to be against it so I went ahead and put it back in the table.

TornadoInformation12 (talk) 06:06, 5 May 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12

@TornadoInformation12: Just merged the article into this page. It's a huge mess but don't feel like fixing it. United States Man (talk) 02:32, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Merging of 2024 Sulphur tornado

Some help will be needed in merging 2024 Sulphur tornado into this article, as that was the consensus of the AfD discussion. I will still be working on the article on my sandbox as to not disturb the encyclopedia, but until the article is sufficient in info and long enough, it should be merged as soon as possible. I'm not good with merging articles, so some help is requested. Thanks! :D MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 22:54, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Utah tornado

CNN states that this tornado outbreak actually began with a Utah tornado, per https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/09/weather/us-tornado-reports-streak-climate-dg/index.html?iid=cnn_buildContentRecirc_end_recirc . Other sources clarify that this was a landspout tornado. - Tenebris 66.11.165.110 (talk) 16:12, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Merge this, April 30 - May 4 and May 6-10?

The Storm Prediciton Center has officially referred to this period as a long tornado sequence. Should we merge the three current sections into one large article, similar to the tornado outbreak sequence of May 2019? Considering this one was both in April and May, an exact date range is necessary such as Tornado outbreak sequence of April 26 – May 10, 2024. Thoughts? MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 01:15, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, I'd be down for it. Seeing how we've seen nonstop tornado activity, it fits. MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 01:16, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

No. By that logic, the May 2019 sequence should've gone out to June 1.--2600:4808:353:7B01:A2C2:1257:E352:E18A (talk) 01:25, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I made a quick mockup in my userspace in case anyone would like to see how it would be structured. If a consensus forms to broaden this I will add this and preserve the original outbreak’s history (unless there’s some that want the May 6-9 article to have its revhistory merged too. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 01:38, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think SPC is designating this as a single outbreak sequence, just generally referring to a very active stretch we've been in. There are gaps in the activity that prevent that entire period from being one continuous outbreak sequence. wxtrackercody (talk · contributions) 02:56, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Just as an example, in one of the tweets in that thread, they group together the April 13-15, 2011 and the Super Outbreak, even though they were distinctly different. I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from their tweets. wxtrackercody (talk · contributions) 02:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

That seems to be an exception given how prolific that month was, as the rest are all documented sequence pages we have currently on Wikipedia, so the recent sequence should be no exception. As a side note, the only missing date in this entire sequence we had was April 30, but technically by UTC time it occurred so it’s an uninterrupted sequence. The May 1995 sequence has one gap day and it’s still considered a sequence too. Also I think if it comes from the SPC which an official organization, regardless of outlet they say it on, that should take precedence over other opinions. It’s like saying the NHC said something on Twitter about a hurricane but not including it in the article about it because it came from Twitter. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 03:22, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not taking exception that it came from Twitter, just the implication that they're officially designating the entire period as 1 outbreak sequence versus broadly making note of how active it's been lately. wxtrackercody (talk · contributions) 03:38, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree with those mentioning that the SPC has referred to this extended period of time as extremely active tornado-wise. However, there were multiple days within this long stretch of severe weather that did not contain any tornadoes, and the different outbreaks came from completely different atmospheric systems, so it would not be coherent to do so, even if it would be convenient in the editor mind. Mjeims (talk) 04:37, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I think the upticks in activity are what is most documented in the two outbreak articles. Note that the period between the two outbreak articles, which had 120+ tornadoes each, has only 29 tornadoes as of right now. I could see why combining all the days would make sense, but I like the way it is now. ChessEric 05:15, 11 May 2024 (UTC)