This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to pop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject R&B and Soul Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of R&B and Soul Music articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.R&B and Soul MusicWikipedia:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicTemplate:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicR&B and Soul Music articles
Hi Dxneo, we use the Billboard chart because it combines both streaming and radioplay into its numbers (and thus is more accurate as a national chart), whereas TOSAC has separate charts for streaming and airplay, and is therefore not as useful. See WP:CHARTMATH for more details. Thanks —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 17:20, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A ranking of the top songs based on streaming and sales activity from within the country- as tracked by Luminate. The ranking is based on a weighted formula incorporating official-only streams on both subscription and ad-supported tiers of leading audio and video music services, plus download sales from top music retailers within the territory.
”
Therefore, it does not say anything about the airplay and I also noticed that there's also US Afro but not her national charts, so what's going on? dxneo (talk) 17:57, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For the Tyla discography section however, she has charted in so many countries around the world so its good to show the global spread by having one chart from each country (except for US Afro bc she's charted a lot of songs there so its proof to readers that she has made a massive impact on that market-- unlike the TOSAC radio chart where's shes only ever charted two songs if I'm not mistaken?).
What I'm trying to say is that because Tyla has had fewer charting songs on TOSAC compared to Billboard SA, replacing the Billboard chart with the TOSAC chart on the table would make it look like she's not as popular as she actually is here. Therefore having the Billboard chart in the table is a more accurate representation of how famous and successful she is in her home country. What are your thoughts? —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 18:23, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay Cybertrip, let's start here, which fewer songs charted on TOSAC as compared to Billboard? If you can name at least one song that charted on Billboard South Africa Songs and not on TOSAC, I will rest my case. I don't see why they cannot co-exist. dxneo (talk) 18:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dxneo: Art and Jump have both not charted on the TOSAC chart (NB: I'm looking specifically at the "Local & International" airplay chart bc the Local one is exclusive to SA artists and doesn't encompass the entire music market, thus making it subjective to what the country consumes) —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 18:44, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cybertrip, precisely my point. We are talking about South African charts here, not international, therefore you cannot look for international charts on national charts (not sure if that makes sense). For an example, see Lisa's discography and point out international charts on that list maybe I'm missing something. dxneo (talk) 19:40, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dxneo: Both the TOSAC and the Billboard chart are still South African charts since they both represent the music consumption of our country, but I think you might be misunderstanding TOSAC's use of the words "local" and "international" perhaps? They use these words to refer specifically to the citizenship/nationality of the ARTISTS whose songs are charting. I can compare the TOSAC Local Top 10 to the New Zealand (Artists) Top 20 chart, which ranks songs specifically by artists from New Zealand (denoted by the little green icon on the corner of each single cover), where as the New Zealand (Official) Top 40 chart, like the TOSAC Local & International chart, ranks all songs by NZ locals AND foreigners (or "internationals" in the words of TOSAC) combined. By this definition, all of the charts listed on Lisa (rapper)#Discography are technically "international" charts because none of them are exclusive to native artists of those countries. Hope this clears that up? —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 20:31, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Coolmarc, I absolutely agree with everything you are saying. However, both charts are allowed to be listed under songs weekly charts, I was just wondering why it is prioritized over the national chart on the singer's discography. I came to realiser that TOSAC (RiSA) is not as advanced as other countries' music charts and/or certification systems, whereas other countries have archives. For an example, here on Billboard you can see every song that charted on this particular chart, and when accessing the RIAA auto-generated certificate link it leads you straight to that specific recording and reveals the number of (Gold or) Platinum certificates, RiSA doesn't. I was actually trying to get the charts information updated at {{Template:Single chart}}, but when I was asked to provide the charts archives here I couldn't cause there isn't any, meaning in the meantime we can only have HOTW charts (Billboard) as an identifier. dxneo (talk) 22:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
TOSAC have charts online dating back to 2021 that can be accessed by simpling editing the week and year in the url. They are able to be archived. There is no excuse to not use this chart when it's the official record chart run here in South Africa. It sucks that they only post a top 10 online (they used to post a full top 100 before, maybe they will again). As mentioned, there is consensus that the Billboard HOTW charts should only be used if the artist/Song has not charted on the main national record chart (TOSAC in this case). Cool Marc✉23:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Coolmarc, cool. How about we start here, please provide the archives and we will take it to the template editors then our problem will most definitely be solved. Why do you think we use URLs for South African charts instead of {{single chart}} like most of Billboard charts? Please do provide the archives as requested by Muhandes hereThank you. dxneo (talk) 23:56, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are numerous countries charts that do not use Single chart templates. That does not mean the chart is any less important and it's not a requirement. Many of the templates become faulty with time due to website and url migrations, and then they can't be archived at all after that, especially Billboard if they end up discontinuing a chart. Anyway I have given the url details on the Singlechart template talk page. Cool Marc✉01:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. dxneo (talk) 23:56, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
