Jump to content

Talk:Shoot 'em up

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 80.194.73.198 (talk) at 15:15, 8 May 2007 (→Multi-scrolling shooter). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

WikiProject iconVideo games B‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Video games, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Video gamesWikipedia:WikiProject Video gamesTemplate:WikiProject Video gamesvideo game articles
BThis article has been rated as B-class on the project's quality scale.
Note icon
This article was a past project collaboration.
Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks:


Danmaku

How come Danmaku isn't listed under subgenres or anywhere else on the article?

It is mentioned. Fairly extensively. Frogacuda 06:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New merge discussion

The old merge seemed a bit silly. They wanted to merge this article into scrolling shooter, which wouldn't have made seense. However, merging scrolling shooter into this one makes a lot of sense, since it is a sub-genre, and, in fact, the predominant form of shoot 'em ups. Most of the games discussed on this page are scrolling shooters. I think it could easily be intergrated.Frogacuda 21:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]


This article needs some major rethinking and reorganizing. Let's go for GA!

A while back I noticed that none of the gaming genre articles had made it to GA status, which is a problem, because genres articles offer a unique opportunity to discuss a broad movement of gaming history without being too overwhelming. It took a complete rewrite, pretty much from scratch, but I got the Platform game article to GA, and now I'd love to see the shmup article get there as well.

So here's what I think we need to do:

  • Write a coherent history of the genre from inception to present. I've started on this, and will continue to work on it.
  • Trim the jargon out of the article. I started a lexicon of shooter vernacular section where we can acknowledge and define these terms, but using them in the main article is unneccessary and will make the article more difficult to follow for someone with no knowledge of the genre.
  • Narrow the article down a bit. I think we should trim out the stuff regarding rail shooters, since they're sometimes not recognized as shoot 'em ups, and they have their own entry already. Same for run and guns.
  • Merge scrolling shooter article with this one. It offers very little that isn't covered here, and its existence will only confuse people.
  • REFERENCES: We need them in a big way.
  • Cute 'em up doesn't need its own section. A paragraph or two discussing all the diverse themes of shooters would serve this purpose better.

Inappropriate Genre

The "shooting gallery" genre isn't one that I'd say is part of shoot em up. It's definitely part of shooting game, but not the traditional shoot em up. I would rather that be on the shooting game page, and I'm going to try and put it there. --GG Vic Viper 21:58, 17 May 2006 (EST)

What else needs to be done?

This article has matured alot recently. What else do you think needs to be done? Are the current subgenres listed acceptable? Should an overall history be given? Or should the history be kept in teh sub-genres? --Larsinio 20:00, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Multi-scrolling shooter

Is konami the only designer of games that altenrate scrolling schemes between levels?! --Larsinio 20:00, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Progear is both vertically and horizontally scrolling, too. elias.hc 21:37, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So did Thunder Force II, plus others I can't remember right now.

Should scrolling shooter be completely merged into this article?

Should scrolling shooter be completely mergeD? The only difference thing ont included are the charactersitcs like powerups, bosses, and all that jazz. --Larsinio 15:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What else should be added as well? A history section? a Modern section? I dont know what to do from here --Larsinio 15:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely should be merged into this. Most of the stuff regarding powerups and what not isn't realyy needed, anyway.Frogacuda 01:51, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

merge Discussion

They shouldn't be merged. I've edited the Shoot 'em up page to be different from the Scrolling shooter page, because not all shmups are scrolling shooters (Space Invaders, Tempest). Shoot 'em up is a general arcade shooter, and a subgenre of the shooter game genre, because not all shooters are shmups. There are shoot 'em ups/arcade shooters, action-shooters, light gun shooters and FPSs. All are different types of game, and although some others may be released in arcades, arcade shooter and shoot 'em up are the same subgenre of shooter. Scrolling shooters are a part of shoot 'em ups, and both pages should exist. Ditto shoot 'em ups and general shooters.

Shooters and Shmups shouldn't be merged because they are very different genres. First person and third person shooters are usually free roaming and the camera perspective is that of the player, they have many elements other then just shooting. Shmups center around shooting and has a fixed camera. Shooters make up a huge percentage of comercial videogames and should have a page of it's own to describe it in more detail. Rail shooter is a sub genre of shmups, but is sometimes used to describe shmups.

However there is a proliferation of duplicate pages. Shoot_'em_up is basically a younger version of Scrolling_shooter. Pages like the SHMUP have wisely been made to redirect to existing pages and I think there is a serious case for merging and redirecting Shoot_'em_up to Scrolling_shooter.

I also saw a page that had an alternative spelling/capitalisation of shoot 'em up which is inviting people to create yet another duplicate page. I can't seem to find it again though. It was the Computer_and_video_game_genres page which was linking to shoot 'em up*s*. I've fixed it up to point to the existing shoot 'em up page for now.

Hold off on the vote

I am going to hold off for now on voting as I started a discussion on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer and video games about this. PLus im totally confused by also there existing a Shooter game article. So we need to fiogure this all out. As of now id like it to be:


Shooter game

please weigh in. Thanks --Larsinio 19:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Screenshots

I was wondering why I saw no screenshots until the very end of the article. Couldn't we have one definitive screenshot for each genre alongside its blurb? And also maybe put a Space Invaders shot right at the top. The article looks extremely unbalanced right now. I'm personally against the screenshot summaries being seperate... one screenshot per genre should be enough and others could easily be seen by following article links. What do you think? - Phorque 08:21, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I started messing with teh screenshots. IM trying to have it so theres two screenshots on the same horizontal line, but have been unsucessful in my tweaking. Please try ! --Larsinio 15:32, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, maybe there should be a screenshot of Space Invaders in the lead rather than Radiant Silvergun. It does seem like the more definitive title, I just chose Silvergun because there was no screenshot for it and it's such a popular title. Or maybe it's fine as is, I don't know. Manmonk 21:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Modern Shmups?

Perhaps a section mentioning shmups today and their decline in popularity in the west (as well as their...essentially maintained popularity in the east), and special cases like Ikaruga or Radilgy?

Any thoughts? What would it be called without being clunky and superfluous (or could it be put in another section)? "Modern Developments?" Donno.

Lockeownzj00 06:37, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed shooter

I've had this discussion before, but nothing ever seems to come of it. Is Fixed shooter an actual genre, or is it a term that's been invented for convenience? I've never seen it used anywhere except Wikipedia, and most Google hits for it point to here. Spottedowl 16:08, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I dunno, i dont think its invented. But it could be. I did some cursory research and found no references otehr than wikipedia. Gallery shooter is a common accepted term however --Larsinio 17:36, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

SHMUPS - problem with name

Who actually uses the term "SHMUPS"? I know one guy who invented it to be unique, but nobody actually uses it. And it's annoying. I vote to replace all entries of SHMUP in the main article with "Shoot 'em up."

It seems to be recognised enough to be the title of a website dedicated to shoot 'em ups, www.shmups.com. However, I too hate the word. :) Spottedowl 18:11, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's a British phrase, and very popular over here. VERY popular. I've added a short history of the word, and how it originated. Including a link to a place that has scans of the magazine that first feature it, Zzap 64. I can't be bothered to find the exact scans though, I leave that up to you guys. It is true though. I've noticed quite often on Wikipedia, that a lot of things are removed simply because Americans don't know of them, or don't understand them (what springs to mind is several famous UK developers who worked on the ZX Spectrum, where, during voting for these pages to be deleted, scores of Americans claimed "never heard of him. Delete." - Now, I'm not trying to be Xenophobic, but please, consider that maybe something was huge mainly in the UK and Europe, and that's why you haven't heard of it in America. It really saddens me when I see this happening. Not so much related to this shmup page, since clearly it's still here, but I felt like ranting about some of Wiki's seemingly random deletions of UK-centric pages. ;-)
That's strange. I'm British and have been reading computer magazines since the early 1990s, and I never heard the term until a few years ago. I thought it WAS American. Was it perhaps a console thing? Spottedowl 11:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No, I'm 100% certain it was coined by Zzap 64, a magazine dedicated to the C64, an 8-bit home micro. Here's a good link, showing it originated in 1985, just search for "shmup": http://www.zzap64.co.uk/zzaped85.html
They talk about the creation of new words. Also, scans:

http://www.zzap64.co.uk/cgi-bin/displaypage.pl?issue=003&page=019&thumbstart=0&magazine=zzap&check=1

Apologies about the long link, I hope it doesn't break this page.
Did it become popular, though? You say it's very popular in Britain, but I never heard of it in about six years of reading Amiga magazines (mostly Amiga Power) and ten years of playing computer games. To me it's always been shoot 'em up. Maybe it was just Zzap64 that used it? Spottedowl 14:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, shmup.com is a website that uses the name and is dedicated to the genre. Ironically actually, although it started in a UK home computer mag, it became most popular among console owners, specifically those who enjoyed Japanese imports. For example, Saturn collectors, who imported a lot of "Japanese shmups" - quite fascinating really, the whole lexical shift. Since there is often quite a dichotomy between console and home computer owners (such as those with a C64 or Amiga), and a word that originated (and maybe died out?) in the one group, was adopted quite seriously by another. Another word combination among Japanese games importers is "Hori Shmup", or horizontal shoot-em-up. It's very possible that the gaming circle you moved in didn't use the word. Well, most of this is just casual chit chat of course, since it probably falls under "personal research", the whole movement of the word from one group to another, but it's definately used by many varied groups today. Is there a "gaming terminology" page on Wikipedia, just out of curiosity?
No. There's a whole category. :) Category:Computer and video game gameplay. This used to be the 'terminology' category, but the categories have broadened; Category:Computer and video games may have something more relevant to this particular term. Spottedowl 01:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bad History

Asteroids and Space Invaders are both greatly predated by MIT Space War. Heck, by the time Asteroids came out, people on the PLATO network were already playing Empire; 30 players dogfighting in 2D over a nationwide terminal network. Akb4 10:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We've always had a little problem deciding just what is a shoot 'em up and what isn't: I think the article currently reflects this indecision. I used to think that scrolling shooters like R-Type were 'true' shoot 'em ups, and games like Space Invaders were just 'kind of shooty games'. I have known, however, that at the moment the article is inaccurate; for example, if Asteroids is a multidirectional shooter, then Computer Space (according to its article) predates it by a number of years.

This Empire thing is intriguing, I've never heard of it before. Spottedowl 17:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About axes of movement

How's that? More than two axes? What is this?? Shoot'em ups are 2D, aren't they?? The controlled vehicle can have more than 2 DOFs, yes, but that's another story... --Alexander Ivashkin 17:58, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shoot_%27em_up&oldid=129255456"