Talk:Diode

Unheadered stuff

Does anyone know which type of symbol (DIN 6779 / ISO / IEC / ...) the displayed symbol in the article is? it would be nice to add the comment there...

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Does anyone know how a diode prevents current from flowing in one direction but permits it in the other?

For the case of a semiconductor-based diode see the discussion of a p-n junction on the semiconductor page. Someone might want to adapt this for the Diode main page. -- Matt Stoker

In a vacuum diode, the materials of the anode and cathode have different attraction to keep their electrons, the cathode may be pointed to concentrate the electric field and the cathode is usually heated to "boil" off electons. The anode is called the "plate" because it is flat to spread out the field so it is not anywhere strong enough to pull out electrons. Sorry not to include links. I can help find more detail if needed. David R. Ingham 04:44, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

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Does the use of galena as a detector (referred to in semiconductor devices) predate the vacuum tube rectifier? - David M

The crystal in a crystal radio is a naturally occurring mineral, used as a detector before practical vacuum-tube electronics. (I believe it has a point contact that is at least analogous to the point-contact diode of about 1950 that is the start of the Bell Labs drive toward commercial semiconductor electronics.) If the crystal of the crystal radio is galena, then the answer to your question is yes. --Jerzy 15:34, 2003 Nov 19 (UTC)

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I thought I'd just explain why I changed "current" to "charge". Current doesn't really flow from A to B, but charge does. Just like "water flow rate" doesn't flow anywhere, but the water itself does. --User:Dgrant

Arguable. The current revision "they allow an electric current in one direction" doesn't make sense to me. It seems to be missing a verb. "...current to occur..." sounds better to my ear, but can we just call "current flows" common usage? -- Tim Starling

Yes, you are right. "to occur" or "to exist" would be the purest form in my opinion, but we can leave it the way it is. It's quite interesting I was able to find a fair share of both usages on Google. No doubt "current flowing" is probably more common. --Dave

It was I who changed "charge" back to "current", but in the light of the comments above, I decided that my version was no more or less correct than the previous one. Now, in an effort to please everybody, I have expanded the definition to mention both charge and current.

I think that the question of whether current "flows" or just "is" is merely a question of style. At worst, I think that "current flows" is harmlessly redundant. -- Heron

True. I think I can agree with "harmlessly redundant". I like the first paragraph now, how it uses singular form "diode" and "it" instead of "diodes" and "they".

The phrase "current flows" is harmless only if you already understand electrical physics. For newbies the phrase creates a serious misconception: the wrong idea that "current" is a substance, a substance which can "flow." This error grows to full-blown proportions in textbooks aimed at kids in grade school. Authors of these textbooks don't discuss the flow of charges within wires, instead they explain that "current electricity" flows in wires. An easy way to pop these bubbles of misconceptions is to ruthlessly remove all apparently harmless miswording such as "current flows." Instead say "charges flow" or "electrons flow" or "electric currents appear," etc. --Wjbeaty 21:07, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Unfortunately, there are many examples of the 'sloppy' use of terminology that, IMHO, hinder the learning process. I recently began teaching an introductory class in electrical engineering. In preparing for this class, I came to realize how careless I had become with the terminology of my field. In the end, my own understanding of the material improved once I began to critically evaluate how I used terms such as current. Alfred Centauri 14:17, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Diode vs rectifier

As this is the general 'diode' article, it seems to me that the section on rectification schemes can be moved into rectifier, and the discussion of p-n diode characteristics can be cut down and handled on p-n junction instead. Any thoughts? - mako 05:45, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I agree this article is getting confused between rectifier and diode descriptions. After all, many diodes are not in fact used as rectifiers at all. Rectifiers should IMHO be moved to the rectifier article. Alan

Good point. Let's split them completely. - Omegatron 05:04, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

It seems to me that in its present form the introduction is still confusing diodes with rectifiers. A diode is a device with two terminals. Not all diodes are rectifiers. That's what we learned way back in circuits 101 and that's what it says in Merriam-Webster -"an electronic device that has two electrodes or terminals and is used especially as a rectifier". I'm going to change it to reflect this basic fact that every electrical engineer should know and if anyone wants to change it back to the incorrect definition, please provide a source. Tarchon 20:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Gas discharge diode

I had not heard of this device before. Does it exist? Can anyone refer to an example part or manufacturer or example of useage?? Al

I'm pretty sure it exists; I'll look it up when I have time. BTW, thanks for your contribs. Do consider signing up for an account. - mako 21:41, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

No evidence on these devices has yet come to light so i have moved the para here for consultation. What think you O? Light current 01:27, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Gas Discharge Diode : There are two electrodes, not touching, in some kind of gas. One electrode is very sharp. The other has a smoothly curved finish. If a strong negative potential is applied to the sharp electrode, the electric field near the sharp edge or point is enough to cause an electrical discharge in the gas, free carriers are created, and a low resistance path appears. If the reverse potential is applied, the electrical field strength around the smooth electrode is not enough to start a discharge. (The discharge can only start easily at the negative end because electrons are much more mobile than positive ions.) These are sometimes used for high-voltage high-current rectification in power supply applications.

Ah, sorry, I should've followed up immediately. According to Electronics by Millman and Seely (1951), there's a whole slew of gas-filled tubes, with various internal structures. I'll have to think about where to put them, though, as some aren't really diodes. (As for the paragraph above, I'm not sure about this "very sharp" electrode etc. business; it'd be enough to say that the tubes operate based on breakdown/ionization. It also seems it's a cold cathode tube. I doubt such things are used anymore, as a significant reverse voltage would also cause conduction.) - mako 05:06, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

No V-I curves...?

There are no V-I curves for the different diodes. Perhaps one for the "normal" or rectifier P-N diode and one for the zener/avalanche diodes would be helpful. If there's consensus, I will create the images and insert them into the articles - unless the images have already been created and excluded for some reason. Rohitbd 12:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I made one to show negative resistance, which is used in Gunn diode and Tunnel diode. You could base new ones off of that? Also you should always check Commons before making a new image (I don't do this often enough.) I don't see any images for this on Commons, though. — Omegatron 13:43, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I have created the V-I characteristics image of a rectifier diode as below. Please let me know if it is ok. Thank you. Rohitbd 18:25, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I-V characteristics of a P-N junction diode (not to scale).

Looks good, though some numbers for current would provide useful context. Maybe a title too - "Typical semiconductor diode I-V characteristic", perhaps. - mako 19:50, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

We could indicate current values, but IMHO that will lead non-technical readers into believing that the values shown are the factual ones - which is not the case. Currents vary from device to device. The forward turn-on voltage, however, is true for almost all Si/Ge devices and IMO can be included as a fact. PS: I have slightly changed the V-I curve in the reverse bias region. I believe this to be the correct one for a rectifier - the previous one was perhaps more zener-like. Rohitbd 11:07, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

A non-technical reader may also assume that the chart is to scale; I just think some context is useful. Perhaps then a note in the caption about typical currents would be appropriate. Also, I have never heard these referred to as "V-I" characteristics. The ordering is always Y-axis, X-axis. Is this opposite (to me) convention common in your experience? - mako 22:00, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Ok...but I do not know (rather remember) what typical current values to use. Maybe you can provide me with some (leakage current, reverse current...?). And "V-I" is perhaps my own "quirk"...maybe I memorised it that way all along - I shall use whatever is the accepted convention - good that I did not add this directly into the image. Rohitbd 07:40, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Looking at the datasheet for a 1N4001, the quoted reverse current is 30 uA. There's no forward leakage parameter; not really a factor when rectifying I suppose. I guess I would say typical current in the off region is on the order of microamps. - mako 00:21, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Added the relevant intormation into the image. Please check if everything is in order and I will link it into the article. Rohitbd 09:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Since no one has objected, I have added the image to the article. Rohitbd 10:08, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

types of diodes

i love how the list of diode types is in a completely random order. the descriptions are fine, but it's impossible to quickly find the desired entry. typical "missing the forest for the trees" behavior from wikipedians.

I don't understand the paragraph concerning gold-dopped diodes: gold is supposed to make the diodes operating faster, but the paragraphs ends on the topic of main rectification (i.e very slow operation). Also, it is said that gold-dopped diodes can operate at "signal" speed. Does that mean "high frequency signal"?CyrilB 13:24, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Thermionic or gaseous state

Is it planed or hoped that gasious state devices will be described here. David R. Ingham 04:46, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Shockley's Diode Equation

I've heard something about the equation not taking into account "photon recycling effects", which cause the equation to be very inaccurate in the case of photovoltaics. I think this would be significant enough to note on the page. Fresheneesz 21:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The Shockley equation is derived with the assumptions that the only processes giving rise to current are drift, diffiusion, and thermal R-G. It ignores photocurrent and R-G center processes. That's why it's often called the ideal diode equation; R-G center current in the depletion region, series resistance at high forward bias, and reverse breakdown processes are all unaccounted for if you rely only on the Shockley equation. -- uberpenguin @ 2006-06-25 13:36Z

Surely this equation should have its own page? 155.198.202.180 (talk) 09:04, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

First Diodes

I always thought the first diodes were point contact diodes, used in crystal sets, but the article claims the first diodes were thermionic. Any references to back the article's claim? Also, my understanding is that the symbol for a diode is actually a drawing of a point contact diode. It has nothign to do with arrows and the direction of current flow. The symbol is polarised as it is because the 'whisker' of a point contact diode is the anode and the flat plate is the cathode. The "arrow" in the diode symbol is really a sharpened needle (whisker) on a flat plate.John Dalton 11:27, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the article needs clarifying. I will try to work on it a little. Maybe the confusion is that the first thing called a "diode" was a thermionic tube. Crystals predated vacuum tubes but they were called rectifiers. Today it would be called a Schottky barrier diode. Snafflekid 19:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

From the rectifier article: "the difference between the term diode and the term rectifier is merely one of usage, e.g. the term rectifier describes a diode that is being used to convert AC to DC.". The rectifer article goes on to describe the *process* of rectification with passing reference to "point contact rectifiers or crystal detectors". As a *device* crystal diodes/rectifiers seem to have "fallen through the cracks" in that the device itself is outside the scope of the rectifier article and not considered to be a diode in the diode article. Perhaps we are a victim of changing terminology? Crystal (point contact) diodes were originally named by the function they performed. At some point as rectifiers found wider application (possibly corresponding with the invention of the themionic diode??) the name of the function (rectification) and device (diode) seem to have been separated. Possibly this is why themionic diode have gottten the label of "first diodes", as they appeared around the same time as the word "diode" found wider usage? Need to find references to back up this theory!John Dalton 20:25, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I've added a section on crystal diodes. The article is now internally inconsistent as both thermionic diodes are crystal diodes are claiming to be the first. If I get the time I'll try to fix it, but fel free to jump in before me.John Dalton 21:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The saga continues. I'm not so sure crystal diodes were used before thermionic diodes now. The principle of crystal diodes was discovered in 1874. The principle of thermionic diodes was discovered in 1873. A Thermionic device was patented in 1883, but developed no further. The first practical thermionic diode was patented in 1904. Crystal diodes were in use before then. Maybe I'll just add a 'history' section to the article.John Dalton 21:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Radio demodulation

By my understanding, crystal radios got their name from the crystal in the rectifier, not the quartz crystal in the earphone.John Dalton

I didn't see any reference to a needle and a razor blade?

Question

Would anyone know the reasoning behind placing a diode across the controls of a DC low voltage relay?

It's a protection diode. When you switch off the relay coil, the collapsing magnetic field creates a voltage (the back-EMF) much larger than that used to energise it, and of the opposite polarity. This voltage can sometimes be enough to destroy the transistor that controls the relay. The diode soaks up the back-EMF without interfering with the normal operation of the relay. --Heron 20:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Not fast enough... I put my explanation, though it is not as good!

The magnetic coil of a relay is an inductor, so it is not possible to instantaneously interrupt the current in it. If you try to do so, using a switch or a transistor, the inductor will generate high voltages that can damage or destroy your switch. Placing a diode across the coil provides an alternative circuit to the current (until the inductor is completely discharged), so there is no overvoltage. -- CyrilB 20:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm considering rewording the "Overvoltage protection" section and possibly renaming it to something more appropriate as i think it might be missleading, especialy to an amateur. the section should realy refrerence inductance with perhaps a wikilink to inductors. i would appreciate peoples thoughts before i change the section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Keirstitt (talk • contribs) 10:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

There is now an article that talks about exactly this -- flyback diode. So ... should we explain this in both diode and flyback diode ? --75.37.227.177 15:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Radiation Detector

(mostly as a reminder to myself) the section on radiation detection needs clean-up and correction. Unfortunately also the semiconductor detector article is not good, so I can't copy from there. Sergio Ballestrero 23:10, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Picture Links

I made the titles of the schematic diagrams into links to their respective articles.--24.16.148.75 23:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Manatom

I have removed the obscure line:

                                   Engr.Louriel R. Manatom

I have no idea why it was there; if somebody has an explanation, he's free to offer it. John Reid 07:36, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Caption

I suggest this be added to the caption. It would make the illustration useful for someone trying to figure out which way a diode goes. The trouble is I'm not sure it's true - can someone who knows, check?

Types of diodes. All of these would be represented by a diode symbol (see below) with the arrow pointing down.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 190.56.56.246 (talk) 13:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

the left one (and now in the article the bottom one) is a bridge rectifier (containing four single diodes), that makes it difficult to find a proper caption for arrow directions. Other types show a band for the cathode terminal, the screw-like ones mostly have the case as cathode terminal.--Ulfbastel 13:32, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Greek roots

The term "diode" does not come from "two" and "odos". The "di" is from "dia" so "diodos" is "dia-odos", the path through which something passes. On the other hand in William Eccles the story goes that Eccles invented the term Diode to describe an evacuated glass tube containing two electrodes; an anode and a cathode.. However the word doesn't have that meaning in greek, it would be nice if there was a source so we could know what Eccles was really thinking - Badseed 00:48, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The OED says di-, twice, and odos, way. Is it wrong? --Heron 10:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Unlikely, but the fact is that that's not what it means in greek. Maybe i got the etymology wrong, I'll dig into it more - Badseed 22:58, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

In Greek di in diode comes from dia. I am certain about this, since I'm Greek and study at the Technical University in Athens. Please think about what a diode does: it allows current to pass in a certain direction. So it is a *path* *through* which current passes. And yes Oxford English Dictionary is the definitive dictionary of the English language -no question about that-, but two-way has no real meaning for what a diode does. But as I said, a *path* *through* which current passes in a certain direction tells us definitly what a diode really does -at least in Greek. If di came from two "to describe an evacuated glass tube containing two electrodes", then what does two and path really mean? If an English word is really a Greek Word and this etymology is more logical, then why not accept it? Or at least write both, and give the reader the privilege of choosing?

We're not in the business of original research, so unless you can come up with an authoritative source, then the OED version stays. Etymology is based on history, not logic or even meaning. It doesn't matter whether Eccles got his Greek right or wrong, or even if he made it up on a whim: if he said that he was inspired by those Greek roots, then that, by definition, is the etymology. Anyway, going back to your logic, maybe he should have called it the "dielectrode", but I think he showed good style by abbreviating it. --Heron 19:43, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

1N numbering

This article is barely more than a stub. No mention of the 1NXXXX numbering system, used for decades as the main way of labelling diodes. No references. No See also or External links.-69.87.199.84 12:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Numbering

A standardized 1N-series numbering system was introduced in the US by EIA/JEDEC (Joint Electron Device Engineering Council) about 1960. Among the most popular in this series were: 1N34A/1N270 (Germanium signal), IN914/1N4148 (Silicon signal) and 1N4001-1N4007 (Silicon 1A power rectifier).

"The JEDEC Solid State Technology Association (Once known as the Joint Electron Device Engineering Council), is the semiconductor engineering standardization body of the Electronic Industries Alliance (EIA), a trade association that represents all areas of the electronics industry. JEDEC was originally created in 1960 as a joint activity between EIA an NEMA, to cover the standardization of discrete semiconductor devices and later expanded in 1970 to include integrated circuits." [1]

http://news.elektroda.net/introduction-dates-of-common-transistors-and-diodes-t94332.html http://semiconductormuseum.com/Museum_Index.htm -69.87.199.84 13:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

"SemiConducting Diodes" section

There seems to be a small error in this section of the article. The author says that when an electric field is placed across the diode which has the same polarity as the "built -in" electric field, then current is allowed to flow. Assuming that the author is using the conventions of positive charge movement constituting current flow and electric field lines pointing from regions of positive charge to regions of negative then and only then does the reader know what he means when he says that current flows from the P region to the N region. P-type semiconductors are doped with group IIIa atomic elements and N-type semiconductors are doped with group Va atomic elements. On their own they consitute neutral atoms, however, when placed in the silicon lattices of a PN diode electrons move around to form these "built-in" electric fields. The author says that in order for the holes naturally existing in the P region to be filled wiht electrons, electrons must leave the N region to combine with the holes. Being group V elements in the N region, this would leave behind a net positive charge in that region. Conversly, there being group III element in the P region, having these holes filled would create a net negative charge in that region. So we have established that there then should be electric field vectors in the material pointing from the N region to the P region. Since diodes only allow current to flow in the direction of P to N however, placing an electric potential across the diode which has the opposite polarity of the "built-in" field will allow current to flow. This contradicts the statements of the author. Furthermore, you can make sense of this in your mind by thinking of the "built-in" field as a manefestation of the depletion of charge carriers at the interface as the author suggests you do. Then since this built-in field is caused by the device taking on insulating qualities, it would make sense that you should destroy these qualities to allow for conduction of charge: hence placing an electric field across the device with a polarity opposite to that of the "built-in" electric field. 24.248.230.218 16:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC)Ted Cackowski Jr.

hello this will be grate if u give a sketch sectional view of a diod with labeling and from that labeling discribing the specific usage of that part of the object(diode).-rathin dholakia(india)

VI curves

Should we show a log-log VI curve? — Omegatron 04:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Question of merge with PIV

In my view the PIV article should be deleted as it is very specific to a particular application, making it misleading the way it is linked in most articles. Brews ohare 19:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I have added an alternative case to the Peak_Inverse_Voltage article that makes it acceptable (in my view). Brews ohare 19:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Meaning of 'diode'

"In electronics, a diode is a two-terminal component,"

You'd expect so from the word derivation, but direct (filament heated) thermionic diodes have 3 terminals. (Similarly, direct heated triodes have 4 terminals.)

For sources for this, see any valve/tube basics text.

The term 'diode' may have originated with a 2 electrode device, but for a century or so, ie almost the entire history of the word, it has been used to describe devices that conduct one way better than the other, and of course some of these are not 2 terminal devices. Tabby (talk) 18:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Appearance

"similar in appearance to incandescent light bulbs"

1920s ones were, but not more modern valves. The shape, metal innards and base are all different to familiar filament bulbs. Tabby (talk) 19:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Rectifier vs diode

"From the rectifier article: "the difference between the term diode and the term rectifier is merely one of usage, e.g. the term rectifier describes a diode that is being used to convert AC to DC."."

This is incorrect though, there are a number of non-diode devices which have seen use as rectifiers. Commutator and vibrator rectifiers are 2 examples. Tabby (talk) 19:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Guthrie

The article credits Guthrie with discovering thermionic emission. Per the reference, he studied hot metal objects in air. Thomas Edison discovered the unidirectional conductance in a vacuum from a heated filament. This is surely not a "rediscovery" unless Guthrie also used an evacuated tube or globe in his research. Was a hot metal object in air ever used in the vacuum tube era of electronics? Edison (talk) 18:38, 12 December 2007 (UTC)