Talk:Alessa Gillespie

Dark Alessa

I took quite some time writing up a nice article on Dark Alessa, including quotes from the director and actress about who she really is. I'm sorry that someone here obviously doesn't get what she is and therefore feels the need to erase all my work, but please stop. It is a fact Dark Alessa is a part of Alessa. Please stop erasing my work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.138.112.29 (talk) 02:54, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

That you view this as "your work" is the point - it is speculative interpretation, and thus falls under the category of Original Research, specifically verboten on Wikipedia. The references by Gans to his work are entirely on topic, and stay - the inclusion of a character not named in the film or elsewhere in the ouvre does not. 99.174.233.4 (talk) 06:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

"I'm the dark part of Alessa". Means she's the dark part of Alessa. Means she's important to Alessa's page. The fact that it's backed up by actress and director interviews just makes it even more important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.138.112.29 (talk) 01:34, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

But that's not what she says. she says "I have many names." Like the devil in the Bible.138.23.208.9 (talk) 15:56, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Recent edits

Its nice to see additional info. But the sources are questionable, as the arise from a fan tranlation of a official source, which isn't wikipedia. Small douses of it are ok, it should, however remain a secondary source not a primary one.Xuchilbara 00:54, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

You could check the official sites if you want. I just went there but got too freaked out before I found anything useful. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 01:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

The problem is translated memories is not endorsed nor official, its a fan translation of Lost Memories. And it seems to be down right now as well. Xuchilbara 02:30, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I know. I guess it's kinda my fault it's being used so much (I used it extensively when I rewrote Silent Hill 2. It was also used on the movie's article.) They've apparently noticed as well. Take a look at their external links. We're under "AFFILIATES". --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 02:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm still having trouble getting it to load for me. :-/ But I am planning to remove much of the article's content and quotes as they are not of a official source. (Sorry!) I might not do it tonite tho, I don't want to start a editing war w/ a bunch of other users. Xuchilbara 03:30, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

This or SH2? --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 03:50, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Here, I don't edit Sh2.... Xuchilbara 04:02, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

But what about the quotes? Has it been ruled that that is no longer the expectation of VG episodes? --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 04:26, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

It'd have to be.... I heard that the fan translation has many inconsitities and until one day Konami America takes the time to translate LM for the public (I would suppose it would sell well w/ all the supporters) were at a loss. However, some things you can piece togather w/out LM. Like Mary actually having been alive in SH2 until quite recently. I usually use Lm as a secondary or third source, given that, there are plenty of in game evidence thats over looked. If you need help w/ something like in game evidence you can leave me a comment on my talk page. :) Xuchilbara 04:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

• Unofficial translations or not, the material itself remains official. If the material contains important information on production/character conception, etc., it should be included. If we merely dismiss these translations as "unofficial," then we dismiss all information that comes originally from a language other than English; in that way, for example, we would also be dismissing the French interviews with Christophe Gans purely based on the fact that they were assessed by a third-party and translated into English, then placed as a reference within an article (translations are bound to not be 100% perfect, even when translated by creators of the series themselves due to the differences among languages, but judging a given translation by simply calling it "unofficial" and holding that against it breaks Wikipedia's neutral point of view). Furthermore, without production information, the article will never make it beyond B-class (eg. even w/ the references to the Translated Memories translations, the Silent Hill film page has gained GA+ status). The out-of-universe information is vital to separating fact from fiction in a fictional universe and in the context of writing an encylopedia article (see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction)). As WikiProject Video Game's featured articles (see Category:WikiProject Video games/Featured articles) demonstrate, framing points such as how the franchise has done internationally in terms of sales and the creation and development behind a character are all essential to making a good article. --Benten 09:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Where does it say wikipedia considered fan translations as cited sourced? Not to mention the inaccuracies with that translation. Xuchilbara 18:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

What's say we take this article to WP:VGPR and hope that some of the reviewers have some advice on this matter as well as the rest of the article? This is pretty close to GA. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 18:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm putting it up myself right now. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 17:11, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Lets say Konami later on puts out a offcial translation, wouldn't we be in HUGE trouble if they found out we are using this? Xuchilbara 02:25, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

What about simply citing the specific pages of BOLM without linking? --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 02:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Assuming you're discussing copyright issues. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 02:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. As well at least when translating a citation yourself, you must cite the original document in its original language. So that people can see for themselves, if they know how to read that language that is..

Xuchilbara 03:48, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Is it even worth mentioning the translation used? --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 05:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm really not sure. What it says is..

"Because this is the English Wikipedia, for the convenience of our readers, English-language sources should be used in preference to foreign-language sources, assuming the availability of an English-language source of equal quality, so that readers can easily verify that the source material has been used correctly.

Keep in mind that translations are subject to error, whether performed by a Wikipedia editor or a professional, published translator. In principle, readers should have the opportunity to verify for themselves what the original material actually said, that it was published by a credible source, and that it was translated correctly.

Therefore, when the original material is in a language other than English:

Where sources are directly quoted, published translations are generally preferred over editors performing their own translations directly. Where editors use their own English translation of a non-English source as a quote in an article, there should be clear citation of the foreign-language original, so that readers can check what the original source said and the accuracy of the translation."

If someone translated Lm by themselves, I don't think I'd have much of a problem with it. But as you can see it makes no mention of a outside translation.

While Lost Memories IS an official item, it DOES have a lot of errors in it, such as saying that Cheryl was adopted by Harry AFTER his wife's death. Also, it was not worked on by anyone involved with the first game.24.3.186.152 23:48, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Xuchilbara 16:53, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Move?

I think Alessa's page should be moved to the characters section of Silent Hill. -- December Man 23:23, 16 June, 2006

Indeed it should. Wanna do it? --Thaddius 02:43, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Heh, I'm just starting to learn how to edit Wikipedia and frankly, I don't know how to do it :P Better do it yourself. -- December Man 19:30, 20 June, 2006

I moved it in the template. I hope that's what you meant. P.S., there's a link to the template in the category section for future reference. --Thaddius 18:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Alessa should not lose her page, if that's what you mean. She's a very important character in the series, after all.24.3.186.152 23:49, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree w/ the above. She is one of the main figures throughout the entire series. she deserves her own page. Xuchilbara 01:57, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Samael

Concerning >The Order seeked to impregnate a girl with the soul of Samael so she would be imbued with his unlimited power (which by proxy the cultists would control).

There's no evidence for this, the cult never says this, and the game doesn't. The only mention is the supposed "mark" Dahlia mentions to Harry that Alessa supposedly has.

According to the offcial Sh1 guidebook:

Q: What is the Mark of Samael?

A: The truth is that there is no profound significance.

Dahlia uses the phrase "the Mark of Samael" while speaking to Harry. This is a sophism to make Harry worry that terrible things are happening that must be stopped at any cost; it's nonsense that falls under the category of wordplay. Dahlia thought she could use Harry to catch Alessa, so she used incomprehensible terms with feigned sincerity.

[1]

I'm putting this up for the Samael rumours to drop. There's hardly any evidence to support a majority of these claims/theories. Yes it IS a theory.

Xuchilbara 04:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure the fact that Samael shows up in 0rigins helps with your 'this is a rumour' theory. --Thaddius (talk) 11:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

He does? I thought the name was simply mentioned in some file? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 19:33, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Jodelle Ferland as Sharon Da Silva

The picture creates sort of a problem. She isn't exactly the real Alessa, although she might be Alessa's half manfestation of something similar in the movie. Therefore I am changing the intial caption. Xuchilbara 03:27, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

On a similar note, the following sentence is not the whole truth: "In the film Alessa is played by Jodelle Farland." Farland plays three persons in the movie, 1) young Alessa, 2) "demon girl", and 3) Sharon Da Silva (some kind of "aspect" of Alessa which was salvaged/incarnated by the "demon girl" from the adult, hospitalized Alessa. Jodelle Farland plays young Alessa in the "flash back" scenes, whereas the present time Alessa is played by Lorry Ayers. 62.16.174.144 20:02, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Good Article review

I have taken on Alessa Gillespie for review under the Good Article criteria, as nominated on the Good article candidates page by Lenin and McCarthy. You'll be pleased to hear that the article meets none of the quick-fail criteria, so I will shortly be conducting an in-depth review and will post the results below.

Where an article is not an outright pass, but requires relatively minor additional work to be brought up to GA standard, I will normally place it on hold - meaning that editors have around a week to address any issues raised. As a precaution to prevent failure by default should this occur, if editors are likely to be unavailable over the next ten days or so, feel free to leave a message on my talk page so we can arrange a more convenient time for review. Regards, EyeSerene^TALK 18:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

GA on hold

I have now reviewed this article under the six Good article criteria, and have commented in detail on each criterion below:

1 Well written FAIL

1.1 Prose

Although this is generally good, flows logically and is pleasant to read, there are a few areas that need attention:

• The prose occasionally drifts from past to present tense and back again. For example, from the Appearances > Video games > Silent Hill section: "Her only friend in childhood is Claudia Wolf, who sympathized with her because she also came from an abusive family background." Such plot-summary type text should always be written in the present tense.

• Some sections (notably Characteristics and the Appearances > Video games sections) are written from an exclusively in-universe perspective. They would benefit from a slightly more out-of-universe perspective in their approach (see WP:WAF for further explanation).

• A few sentences need rewording for clarity:

"Her appearance changes depending on the place within which she resided..." I'm not too sure what this means; Alessa 'resides' in Silent Hill. Is this referring to her mental state or physical location?

"Had she been living under normal circumstances, her abilities may have almost never manifested themselves..." This is rather awkward phrasing, and comes across as OR (the citation at the end of the sentence looks like it relates to the latter part of the sentence, ie the reason she was branded a witch).

"...but dropped it in favor of "Alessa" when they decided that it was much too uncommon of a name." much too uncommon of a name is a very US way of expressing the idea; I know the article follows US spelling, but this phrase could do with rewriting in a less idiomatic way.

"When she was young, the girl enjoyed collecting butterflies and drawing pictures, but she was afraid of insects other than butterflies, and menacing or frightening animals like large dogs, snakes, and worms." This sentence reads slightly awkwardly, but more to the point I don't really see its relevance to the article as it stands. Presumably the implication is that some of the creatures that later inhabit Silent Hill are created from her childish impressions of these animals?

"The burns suffered in her mother's ritual are reflected in writhing shadows and the twisted movements of Silent Hill's creatures..." Maybe something like "The agony of the burns suffered in her mother's ritual is reflected in writhing shadows and the twisted movements of Silent Hill's creatures..."?

"halved things" I think I understand what this is getting at, but it might benefit from a more explicit description.

1.2 Manual of Style

The article complies with the MoS in its layout, headings are properly formatted, it is well-wikilinked to add depth, and (although not a GA criteria but a nice extra touch) templates are used where appropriate in citing references.

2 Factual accuracy PASS (but see comments)

The article is generally well-sourced. Editors may wish to supply a reference for the Actor portrayal paragraph, and the Other media sub-section would benefit from further citations, but these issues will not affect this GA assessment as IMO sourcing is currently adequate for GA pass.

3 Coverage PASS

The subject is covered in appropriate depth, and the article remains focused in its coverage.

4 Neutrality PASS

The article is neutral in its tone throughout.

5 Stability PASS

The article history shows no evidence of instability or recent edit-warring.

6 Images PASS

All images used are appropriately captioned, and bear suitable licenses.

As a result of the above concerns I have placed the article on hold. This gives editors up to a week to address the issues raised (although in some circumstances the hold period can be briefly extended). To help with tracking, editors may like to strike through each comment as it is dealt with, or use the template {{done}} after each comment.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or are ready for a re-review. In any case I'll check back here in seven days (around 25th August). All the best, EyeSerene^TALK 16:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

GA fail

The hold period has now expired, and despite the good work put in by Lenin and McCarthy, I have reluctantly failed this article because some of the points raised above have not yet been addressed. If you believe that I have applied the fail criteria inappropriately, or have any other concerns about the conduct of this review, you can list Alessa Gillespie on the Good article review page for discussion by other GA reviewers.

Alternatively you may wish to address the remaining issues (namely, those relating to article clarity) and then renominate the article on the Good article candidates page. Please also feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Regards, EyeSerene^TALK 13:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

VG Assessment

This is in regards to the request at the VG Assessment page. I'm rating this article as B-class, Low-importance. Usually I would in an assesment go into more detail and give a mini-peer review as to how to fix the problems with the article, but in this case it took so long to get to the article that the GAC reviewer above this has already left a wonderful summary of the problems and proposed solutions. I would, however, add that generally the use of single-sentence paragraphs is heavily discouraged, as they are considered to be poor writing (and, at least in my opinion, just look bad). The solution, of course is simple- merge the short paragraphs into the surrounding ones. Good luck fixing all of the reviewers concerns before the deadline! --PresN 03:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Alma Wade

She bears quite a resemblence to Alma Wade for the RPG F.E.A.R. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.58.211 (talk) 08:20, 22 March 2008 (UTC)