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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Precious Roy (talk | contribs) at 20:52, 22 January 2009 (→That one user: resp.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

There is no Cabal
This user is a member of the Wikipedia Ultra Secret Inner Inner Cabal, a cabal so secret that not only am I not allowed to know who the other members are, I am not even allowed to know if there are any other members, and if I ever did find out that anyone else was a member I would have to kill them immediately.

You can contact WUSIIC on #wikipedia-ultra-secret-inner-inner-cabal on Freenode. As a courtesy you are requested to kill yourself afterwards.


R       E       T       I       R       E        D

This user is tired of silly drama on Wikipedia.
If you are going to be a dick, please be a giant dick, so we can ban you quickly and save time. Thank you so much.

I check in most evenings, and occasionally some days during the day. I am on UK time (I can see Greenwich Royal Observatory from my office). If you post a reply at 8pm EST and get no reply by 10pm, it's likely because I'm asleep. My wiki interests at the moment are limited. I still handle some OTRS tickets. You can find me on facebook: my profile. Please include your WP username if sending a friend request.

Dispute resolution, Bible style - and actually an excellent model on Wikipedia as well.

If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

— Matthew 18:15

Please do not try to provoke me to anger, it's not difficult to do, so it's not in the least bit clever, and experience indicates that some at least who deliberately make my life more miserable than it needs to be, have been banned and stayed that way. Make an effort to assume good faith and let's see if we can't get along. Guy (Help!) 22:16, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

the internets is populated by eggshells armed with hammers

Note to self

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Istria&diff=192329190&oldid=189359747

<3

Joy
Joy

Celarnor Talk to me has given you a kitten! Kittens promote Wikilove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Share the WikiLove and civility with everyone and keep up the excellent editing! Send kittens to others by adding {{subst:Joy message}} to their talk page with a friendly message.




Could you check into one of your blocks, perchance?

This user here: User talk:Pr D Phillip was blocked for abusing multiple accounts, and yet I don't see a list of those accounts. He claims that after his final warning, he had stopped socking, and that your later block was done with no intevening bad behavior by him. I have no evidence to decide either way. Could you perchance look into this, and report the socks he created that led to his indefinite block? Thanks a bunch! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:29, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Disruptive WP:SPA and multiple account abuse. But if you think you can control the problem you are welcome to unblock, the main problem was a lack of any willingness to acknowledge that it might be him that was wrong and not everybody else involved. Guy (Help!) 15:41, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have no opinion one way or the other. I was merely forwarding to you for additional input. I have no desire to mentor or monitor this user in any way. If you can categorically state that you do not support an unblock at this time, I will decline his request. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 16:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Its Pr D Philip here. Ive temporarily logged out, to be able to reply to this as none of you are contactable directly by email. And i dont know what else to do, as I'd like to continue using my username. You say you would not be willing to unblock due to past nonsense, but since a previous administator who is already dealing with this issued a "final warning" I had not made *any* posts whatsoever, and had not been reffered for any futher alledged sockpuppeting, so your indefinate ban applies at a later date doesnt make sense. You also say you wouldnt be willing to unblock unless someoe can watch over my future posts - well there was already an administator doing just that - the admimistrator who issed the original "final warning" -which through evidence shows had already been heeded. 90.194.162.171 (talk) 22:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Where abouts is your email address located? I read through ages about administrators blocking people, and it said you should contact them by email, and that their contact email is on their user page to the left if available. I cannot find any. Also, am I to just re-post what I have written above to your email address? 90.194.162.171 (talk) 22:52, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On the left part of the page, look for a link called "E-mail this user" and click on it. That form sends a email to the address that is sent on the user's preferences, it's done that way for privacy reasons so the user's address is not publically viewable. --Enric Naval (talk) 14:21, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Enric Naval. I have looked on the left hand side and there is no link saying "email this user". Even when logging in this link is not available. This is why I have had to log out to be able to speak up on my behalf. I just want to get on with making contributions. I was originally accused of two suspected sockpuppets, and given a final warning by a moderator. I made no posts after this warning at all and no intervening bad behavior by me, but still a diferent administator has just decided to ban me anyway, meaning I am stuck for ever unable to make posts ever again. I have spent hours reading about blocks, and sockpuppets, and a month waiting to be able to make posts again. 90.194.162.171 (talk) 15:27, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure, but I think you have to be logged in to see that link. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. i got it sorted! :-) i confirmed my email address, and was able to send an email. I've done that but no reply, but im going to assume good faith and wait some more - other than that I dont know what to do. If i dont do anything, i'm banned for the rest of my life. Following procedures doesnt seem to be getting me any where tho, its been over a month now :-( Any suggestions from those who have responded above to help? 90.194.162.180 (talk) 03:18, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]


WP:FANSITE redirect

I've done a little research on your question in WP:EXTERNAL [1]: the redirect itself was editor TheBlazikenMaster, who possibly acted improperly. But I can't get any further investigating. Maybe you know a way to find the original WP:FANSITE page, if there was one? Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 16:55, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"and that any changes in the recreated page do not address the reasons for which the material was deleted."

Thus G4 did not apply to My Life Would Suck Without You, as crystall ball had been addressed, as had other N issues. Aboutmovies (talk) 21:34, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Do you have any idea how pissed off poeple get playing whack-a-mole with rightfully deleted articles on things whose fans then keep recreating them with a tiny bit more every time and the repeated assertion that now it's good enough? Take a sourced rewrite to WP:DRV. If you want the content userfied so you can do that, then ask any admin (including me) but don't simply ignore results you don't like, that type of anarchy causes far too much friction especially in areas like this where absurdly promotional content aimed at spreading the word is a long-standing problem. Guy (Help!) 21:38, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Expanding on Aboutmovies comment, consensus was hardly reached in the original AFD discussion. jenuk1985 (talk) 21:42, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Which is what WP:DRV is for. Sometimes process is your friend. Guy (Help!) 21:43, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry you feel the article needed to be deleted. I truly did not mean to ruffle any feathers. I will take a look at DRV, as required. I'm sure the article will return in one form another by the end of the week. Thanks, and best wishes! -Whataworld06 (talk) 21:45, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Until 1 hour ago I was uninvolved in this entire process, so there was no ignoring of any results by me. But thanks for the AGF and now tying this up via DRV for what was done in the proper order as DRV says (be bold and re-create). Aboutmovies (talk) 21:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have created the DRV, but its worth noting that as part of that process it suggests contacting the admin concerned, which I did, but the admin concerned did not want to enter into any form of discussions, instead resorting to swearing (in the comment before mine), and what could be constituted as a personal attack. jenuk1985 (talk) 21:58, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is, if you follow process, you will have fewer arguments. This has been deleted a lot of times now, so it makes sense to do it the right way because then there will be less argument. Guy (Help!) 22:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

reply

I suggest that this comment is a lapse from the principle of discussing the issues, not personalities. Geo Swan (talk) 23:26, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Condensed matter nuclear science

Hi Guy, User:Abd, who I know you've had some recent conflict with on cold fusion-related stuff, has asked me to restore (or provide him with the content of) Talk:Condensed matter nuclear science, which you deleted. I see the article itself was redirected, and I have no doubt that the redirection was appropriate (having cursorily followed the cold fusion Arb Comm case, I can say with some confidence that I'd side with you and SA on cold fusion-related content disputes roughly ten times out of ten), but I admit that I'm foggy on exactly why the associated talk page needed to be nuked. Would you object to my restoring it? Sarcasticidealist (talk) 02:51, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I would not support the undeletion of any content related to the promotion of this fringe field, but I would suggest that you ask some people whose good faith is somewhat less bruised on this one. Guy (Help!) 13:14, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We've had disagreement, to be sure, and my opinion is that JzG has used his admin tools in conflict of interest, and I've expressed this (beginning with asking him to reverse one of his actions) but I have never impugned JzG's good faith, I see no evidence that his intention is anything other than the welfare of the project as he sees it. What he's done in this case is to delete, without any necessity, Talk discussions that may be useful to others. The article is not deleted, it's been redirected. Condensed matter nuclear science is a general field, and is only partially related to cold fusion, which is a term that is largely rejected; majority opinion within the field seems to be that (1) something is going on that isn't understood, (2) it's possibly nuclear in nature, and (3) it isn't "fusion." Keeping the encyclopedia focused on what was really an old error and old history-of-science issue is essentially forcing a POV. That is, there are peer-reviewed articles being published on condensed matter nuclear science, which is a general field which includes low energy nuclear reactions. By redirecting CMNS to the Cold fusion article, we are enforcing a point of view that all this is "fringe" and "rejected." "Cold fusion" is rejected, even within the CMNS field.
There is in fact no scientific consensus that this field is fringe and not worthy of research, there is the opposite. There is a general attitude among many scientists (quite possibly the majority) that cold fusion is rejected, "junk science," "fringe," and worse, but those who have actually studied the research, and especially the later research, not just the 1989 reports and conclusions, seem to, by a majority, consider the field worthy of further research to discover the cause of anomalous results. Now, my own opinion: we don't know bleep about condensed matter nuclear science. Most nuclear science was based on the study of nuclei either in free environments, or as if they were free, i.e., the environment they were in wasn't relevant, and it was assumed that it was irrelevant, and there was little or no evidence that it was relevant. Is it irrelevant? The hypothesis that it is lasted so long and was so unchallenged that it came to be considered a fact, so much so that our ability to even imagine something otherwise was weak. Is it a fact? Well, there are now possible counterexamples, but, because of association with the whole cold fusion debacle, it is, quite clearly, very difficult to get the kind of vigorous debate, attempted replication of experiments by critics, etc., that would normally happen. Instead, the continuing researchers only debate within their field, for the most part, and must depend on each other for skeptical review, and are then criticized from outside for a lack of critical review! (Even though there is plenty of skepticism, actually, within the field, some of the researchers -- not all -- are very cautious.) Pcarbonn wasn't topic banned for promoting a fringe POV, he was actually banned, as I read WP:Requests for arbitration/Cold fusion for having proclaimed, outside, an agenda to, as he would say, restore NPOV to Wikipedia on the topic. I.e., the violation was of WP:BATTLE, not anything to do with fringe as such. JzG has taken this as a call to remove all traces of "fringe advocacy," as he sees it, from Wikipedia. He's used the blacklist, he's blocked users, he's deleted pages, such as the subject page here. I don't know what else, this is just what I've noticed casually. --Abd (talk) 15:22, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you read up on the definition of conflict of interest. I have no vested interest here, other than in Wikipedia's core policies as a vested contributor. We should avoid careless use of these phrases, as it makes it less easy to understand what is going on. A conflict of interest arises from, say, a webmaster promoting his own website, or someone active in a field of research (as a scientist or as a publisher) promoting funding of that field. A Wikipedia sysop removing links to unreliable sources is not a conflict of interest. It may fail the "uninvolved" test, but that is a different matter. Your assertion that Pcarbonn's problem is purely that of bringing a battle to Wikipedia is at odds with the evidence provided in the arbitration case. If he had not been promoting a fringe POV then I think it is unlikely there would have been any arbitration case. The consensus as represented by mainstream publications is that this is a pariah field. You can dress that up in whatever flowery language you like, it won't change the fact that it has on real currency outside of a small and dedicate group of proponents. I have no opinion on whether they are right or not, but I do have a very firm opinion on whether they may use Wikipedia to reshape the picture of scientific opinion as they wish it to be rather than as it is. 17:13, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't referring to formal COI on a topic caused by outside "vested interests," but the kind that suggests that administrators involved in editing an article not use their administrative tools, absent emergencies, to enforce their preferred edits or POV. I.e., JzG was "involved." So I apologize for my unwikilawyerly failure to use the precise term. I surely hope I don't have to compile the evidence of the involvement, but it's easy to find, and it goes much deeper than removing a few suspect links! The arguments about fringe here are incorrect, likewise his judgment of the ArbComm case, but that's moot on the issue here. I see no argument here that suggests deletion of that Talk page. --Abd (talk) 04:54, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, but I would assert that I am not really involved ont hat article, other than as a janitor enforcing policy. One of the great ploys of civil POV-pushers (not accusing you here, but others) is to assert that every admin who takes any action in respect of a conflict is then involved or conflicted and can't take action; I think you'll find if hyou look in detail that I have very little involvement other than trying to push back against the egregious POV-pushing of Pcarbonn, and there is no doubt that this is exactly what it was: POV-pushing. And yes, the arguments about fringe are precisely correct. Read Physics Today and you will find that out. Of course, Pcarbonn fought tooth and nail not to have that commentary included, or any other commentary which reveals this to be a fringe field, but it is a fringe field, due to the highly public controversy over the Fleischmann-Pons experiment and its premature publication. I have a close friend who is a professor of electrochemistry at a British university, knows Fleischmann and Pons, was working in Fleischmann's labs at the time of the original publication, and took some part in the experiments. I rely on his judgement, not my own. His view was (and this appears to be endorsed by the DoE review panel) that there is something going on but that they have pretty much comprehensively failed to prove that it's fusion. Until they abandon the crusade to prove it's fusion and focus instead on the basic science to document the underlying mechanism, so that the scientific community is faced with something that has a credible basis in known science rather than one of the long-standing wishes of science fiction authors, they will not achieve mainstream acceptance. That is cold fusion for you. Whether condensed matter nuclear science exists as a separate field, other than as a way of avoiding the stigma attached to the term cold fusion, I do not know. As I said above, you'll need to ask someone whose good faith is somewhat less bruised than mine. Remember, I have been attacked around the place for daring to assert what the RFAR actually proved, which is that Pcarbonn is a POV-pusher advancing a non-neutral agenda in an attempt to use Wikipedia to shape rather than reflect real world opinion. I am somewhat concerned that you still appear to be repudiating the fact that Pcarbonn's work was POV-pushing. I don't see how there can be any doubt of that. And I don't see ow there can be any doubt, from the context and evidence in that case, that cold fusion is a fringe or pariah field. It is not being published in the high-impact journals, it is mainly published in journals of no obvious expertise in the field (who thus may not have the review board expertise to spot bad science in detail) and in fringe journals around the free energy suppression movement. But none of that is relevant to the WP:CSD#G8 deletion of a talk page of a POV-fork, and again as I said above you will need to find someone whose feelings are less informed by past abuses of good faith. Guy (Help!) 11:05, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, JzG. Your analysis of the situation is understandable, though problematic because it's incomplete; this is not the occasion to debate any of that. First things first: I read the above as a recusal from specific objection to restoration of this page; if we accept all of the arguments you have made, it would not indicate deletion of that page. As you wrote, and as you have made clear, you would "not support" it, but you did not indicate that you would oppose it and "you'll need to ask someone [else]" means recusal to me. Of course, I did ask someone else, Sarcasticidealist. I really should have asked you, technically, but I was first thinking only of userification and, perhaps correctly, anticipated your response (and he correctly asked you about actual undeletion to article Talk space). Condensed matter nuclear science wasn't deleted, the Talk page, then, shouldn't be deleted -- unless there are conditions there that would require such a drasic step, which, of course, I can't see. --Abd (talk) 16:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The main problem is that the article was a POV-fork and most of that talk page is the usual suspects advancing the usual crap. I think a tabula rasa is a much better idea, even if you want to restart the article. But the sound you hear is me walking away from that. Guy (Help!) 17:25, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree about POV fork, but you have no obligation to discuss this. Briefly, though, the field of CNMS is a substantially broader field than Cold fusion. The article may have been used as a POV fork, or not, that would depend on a lot of things I haven't investigated. What should really be done is to have an article on the field of inquiry (known in the field as CNMS, no longer simply LENR, not for a long time as Cold fusion, that article being NPOV, of course. And then the Cold fusion article is really about science history. Few are now claiming "cold fusion," the early Fleischmann claims are generally rejected. What's pretty clear, your friend confirmed it, is that something not understood is happening in those experiments. What is it? Is it nuclear in nature? There is now a lot of evidence for something nuclear, not necessarily "fusion." No neutrons -- or, recent research, only low-energy neutrons. Conclusive? Well, as you know, big claims require big proof. Given that most "think" of the field as "cold fusion," it's hard, apparently, to get critics to attempt replication of experiments. But the field of CNMS is not fringe, there is lots of stuff in peer-reviewed journals, etc. And a few reviews have been published. Inadequate, as yet, to be considered "conclusive" in my book. But not a whole lot below that!

The redirect essentially freezes in place a POV, that CMNS is simply Cold fusion under another name. Got RS for that? One step at a time, JzG. Thanks for recusing yourself. --Abd (talk) 19:04, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • The redirect reverted a POV-fork. There has never been any prohibition on good faith users building new content on provably significant subjects at titles previously occupied by POV-forks, but be warned that it will be necessary to fight off the same crowd of kooks on that article. I trust you will be co-operating in that necessary work. Guy (Help!) 19:40, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rona Aybay

Hi there JzG. I have no affiliation at all to Rona Aybay and came across the article and cleaned it up and categorized as part of the uncategorized task force. I think being a judge of a notable human rights tribunal (Human Rights Chamber for Bosnia and Herzegovina) is enough of an establishment of notability to survive an A7. That court has its own article and two of its members have articles. Can you please restore and if you feel you must, start an Afd? Scarykitty (talk) 00:49, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

COA article and blocking

Hello. Since you have suggested a block if I make further edits, I would appreciate if you would respond to the questions I asked you on my talk page, and the points I made on the incident report. Thank you. --Elplatt (talk) 16:05, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That one user

Working on the R and I as you mentioned, but can't handle the B myself. May I ask you to block her work IP (her only currently unblocked one)? She's in overdrive this afternoon. If you'd rather not, where would be the best place to ask, WP:AIV? Another possible solution would be to semi-protect her user and talk pages, since that's all she seems to be editing. Precious Roy (talk) 19:12, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Precious Roy (talk) 19:23, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. Let's keep the drama down, though, just courtesy blank everything and leave it to someone else to do anything linking the idiocy to the account, there is at least one person out there who goes completely ballistic any time the user name is even mentioned, especially by you. Not rational behaviour, but not controllable either. Guy (Help!) 19:37, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Note, however, that a while back I meticulously went through and blanked every related page (every talk page, user page, etc.) and she still came back. Precious Roy (talk) 20:27, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You were expecting rational behaviour? Face it, this person is obsessive. Guy (Help!) 20:44, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
True. In any case, thanks for your help. Precious Roy (talk) 20:52, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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