Talk:2009 attack on the Dutch royal family

Dudes, how is this wikipedia worthy?? It's a news item, not an article that should be featured on wikipedia. Maybe as a small subsection in 'Monarchy of the Netherlands', but jeez...

Comments

Is this a specific crime in Dutch Law?

Ricardo Monteiro (talk) 21:17, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, according to NOS (dutch) the suspect is charged under a (normally rarely used) article 108 of the Criminal Law which deals with attacks on the head of state. Rpvdk (talk) 22:20, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes it is, though technically an attack against the Crown is punishable under article 92 of the penal code. Article 108 is part of the criminal code, book two, title two "concerning felonies against the Royal dignity". Punishible with up to 15 years of imprisonment against anyone who attacks the Crown's consort, the presumed heir of the Crown or the Heir's consort. Punishable with imprisonment for 30 years or life if death follows or if deliberat. Occasionally it's also one of the few crimes in the Netherlands who's mere utterence is a felony in itself (thus without the usual prerequisite of actually having made preperations for the crime).Egishnugal (talk) 00:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Royal Family - Royal family - royal family

As far as I can tell "Royal family" appears to be the correct English/American capitalization. Is that correct? The article currently carries different versions. Yintaɳ  09:15, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

If we look at royal family, and then focus on the most widely known and likely most edited royal family, we see British Royal Family. But there does not seem to be a clear convention however. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:52, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

That difference is pretty easily explained though, just notice the difference between a god (as in any god) or God (specific). So I'm quite sure the first letter should be Capitalized, if we'd follow the dutch (and british) example the second letter should also be capitalized. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.86.118.151 (talk) 13:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, thanks. Yintaɳ  13:44, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Related: Should it be 2009 attack on the Dutch Royal Family? –Howard the Duck 15:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Context

One thing (speaking from my own curiosity) that I'd like to see brought out in this article is just how much in danger is the Dutch Royal family in danger from attacks like these? In other words, what is the general Dutch public opinion towards their Royal family? My impression is, as an outsider, that like practically every European country, in the Netherlands their Royals are widely viewed favorably if not treasured. (Well, at least those members who stay out of politics & controversy.) Even anti-monarchical groups simply want to remove them & replace the crown with a republican form of government -- not kill them off. So unless there is a dark underside to the Dutch psyche that is kept hidden from the rest of the world, is it safe to conclude that this is widely seen as the act of someone with personal or mental troubles? -- llywrch (talk) 15:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

That is opinionating and somewhat difficult to do in a Wikipedia article. Speaking personally however... Yes the royal family is generally loved and is almost a sort of "tradition" in its own. There are no indications that anyone but this person were involved of aware of this attack, and it is known the attacker has recently lost his job (he was working night shifts in "security"). He was also losing his apartment due to financial issues apparently, so that might have attributed. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 16:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I know it is difficult, but it can be done. (For example, did any of the Dutch media describe the attack as "shocking"? That would help to define the context in an NPOV way.) But the strategy I would recommend in this case is for Wikipedians fluent in Dutch to be alert to any verifiable sources which discuss this very point, then add it to the article. And until then, I feel TheDJ's response here is sufficient; anyone who wanted a sanity check on whether this act was truly bizarre & out of the ordinary has it. -- llywrch (talk) 16:29, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, there's no hardcore anti-monarch organisation in the Netherlands; atleast, none willing to go so far as assassination. It's most likely the work of the individual who perpetrated the attack, rather than a group; and could be totally unmotivated by anti-monarchism, such as when John Hinckley attempted to Assassinate Reagan in order to impress Jodie Foster. Anyway you look at it, it's speculation for the moment; so untill any further information comes forward on his motivation, we're in the dark as much as the article. 92.11.148.153 (talk) 16:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Perpetrator's background/ethnicity

Not that I'm implying that race has anything to do with it, but I'm sure most Dutch are wondering his ethnicity. "Dutch national" is meaningless.

Does anyone have any information on his ethnic background? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.251.194.221 (talk) 16:05, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Most Dutch know. 38 year old white/blond male. As plain as they get. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 16:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Besides, "Dutch national" isn't meaningless at all and his ethnic background is, in my opinion, completely irrelevant in this case. It doesn't appear to have been a racially motivated attack (and if it was, we'll never know now) so caucasian, black, red, green, purple.... doesn't matter. And no, he doesn't appear to have been a religious extremist either. Just your ordinary Dutch guy. Until yesterday, at least. Now he's probably the most hated dead man in the Netherlands. Yintaɳ  16:41, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Victims

Has a list of names of the victims been released yet? I admit this has nothing to do with the article, but I have friends I cant reach who live in that town. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.255.223.108 (talk) 17:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)