Talk:Too Human

Man, I wish I had more time to devote to fixing up this article. :( Mocheeze 08:13, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Time to start

First off, im gonna start adding to this article using interveiws with the developer and the obvious refrences to Friedrich Nietsche. He wrote a book called Human- All too Human and he is quoted several times in the game trailers. From what I have read this game pulls from norse mythology. While i can write the article im gonna need help with grammer and format. Well let me reprase that, im gonna need someone to check my grammer. I would really like to see a nice clean article about this game and im willing to work for that.Brokenscope 04:04, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I will help out. In the new EGM, they have a cover story on the game with tons of info. Thunderbrand 16:15, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Bad News

During GDC, Microsoft reps were hinting that Too Human may need more time and might not make it to 2007 because there are plenty of other good titles coming out. DarthJango42 04:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha ha ha ha.... It looks like we have a spiritual sucessor to Duke Nukem Forever in the making. Magicflyinlemur 16:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Definitely 2008 according to MS E3 '07 fact sheet. http://www.gametactics.com/?view=article&article=1196&cat=6

New here

New to editing, this page appears to be mising some recent info so I'll try to update it. Sorry if the formating is wrong. PyroBoom 09:41, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I would like to totally rewrite the gameplay section if no one has any complaints. I feel it doesn't adequately describe the integration of linear story, RPG elements and third-person action adventure game. If no one leaves a comment by tomorrow I'll assume this acceptable. PyroBoom 10:09, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead, the edits you've made so far have been good improvements to the page. Welcome, and keep up the great work! SeanMooney 10:35, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou, I updated the section on gameplay and I think the section on the story needs an update as well. I'll probably get to that tomorrow. PyroBoom 11:39, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Separation

I think the story and influences sections should be separated and if I find some spare time I will take care of this. PyroBoom 10:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Edited the story section and seperated it from the influences. 60.242.94.67 10:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Claims to biggest video game budget of all time

Greetings, Editors. I wanted to point out that it is currently claimed the video game project 'Too Human' has between an 80-100 million$ budget, exceeding Shenmue, and is also claimed to be the biggest budget for any game ever. There are a few things I wish to point out, however. First, this information has been added and removed from the main article in the past, and has again been added. Secondly, the source of the information, I do not believe to be a reliable or viable one. We must also consider that Silicon Knights is a small, independent developer. We must also consider that, as difficult as information on budgets for movies is hard to come by, it is even harder to come by for video games. Most video game developers/publishers never anounce the a title's budgets. A good way to assume a high budget is based upon how many developers are working or worked on any given title. The budget given for Shenmue is contradictory, ranging anywhere from 20$ million according to the world record and as stated by one of the developers, to reports of 70$ million budget. If Shenmue were, as the world record states, produced off a budget of 20$, over the years it would've been passed up several times over by such titles as Lost Planet (20$ million), Final Fantasy XII (35$ million), Resident Evil 4, etc. Grand Theft Auto IV currently has slightly over 150 developers (not even including voice actors, etc.) working on that title alone, so it would be safe to assume a VERY high budget for that title, especially given that the previous titles (GTA III, Vice City, San Andreas) all hold positions in the Top 20 best selling console games of all time, and all selling 12 million copies or more. So Take-Two would be willing to spend an unlimited amount on such a profitable franchise. The upcoming PS3 title, Killzone 2, also has over 135 developers working on it, so it is safe to assume an extremely high budget for that title. It is also safe to assume high budgets, exceeding 35$ million for titles like Final Fantasy XIII and Resident Evil 5. 72.49.194.69 03:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Due to the fact that the source of the statements are SK's President, I retract the above statements and apologize for questioning the source. I didn't realize the statements came from Silicon Knight's President. 72.49.194.69 17:02, 25 July 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Statement above retracted, source was not SK's president, just some video game news editor. I cannot concieve that Too Human would have such a high budget coming from a small developer and a yet to birth franchise. Not even Halo 3's budget was that high. 72.49.194.69 07:13, 21 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

The article reports that "Kosak says, the cost for a single next-generation title — like Too Human — runs between $80 and $100 million." KOSAK IS SURELY WRONG. Games have nowhere near that budget these days, Gears of War was produced for just over 10 million. Final Fantasy XII for 30 million. Killzone 2 is being produced for over 40 million. Those are among the highest. 72.49.194.69 07:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Please provide proof before accusing the author of being wrong. The author had an intensive inside look and interview with the developer, along with other industry insiders. What he wrote is based more on factual grounds than just plain speculations, which is what you are appear to be doing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.57.56 (talk) 00:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

You need to provide PROOF that what he wrote is based on factual grounds. The fact that you said that already shows you've ALREADY chosen sides about this issue. He is a Gamespy editor and editors are not immune to speculation. He is not Silicon Knights nor is he Microsoft, the only ones who would know the budget for Too Human. I detest you accusing me of speculating but if that's what you want to believe, no one's stopping you from believing it. 72.49.203.96 06:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Nope it doesn't work the other way around. He is a far more credible than you are. Not to mention Silicon Knights likely read and approved the whole article before it was published. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.57.56 (talk) 17:28, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

You'll have to lock the article because everytime you add it, I will remove it. Good luck with that. I'm not letting you cite a gamespy editor as an official source when Microsoft has already said they did not disclose nor will they disclose the budget. Average game costs are not 80-100 million as this editor says. So he's wrong about that aswell as the budget for Too Human, which is beyond absurd. I'm tired of dealing with you 72.49.203.96 00:01, 10 September 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Wait a minute...

Doesn't Loki kill Baldur in one of the original myths? 70.49.21.43 (talk) 05:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Not Loki himself, but he is able to deceive the blind god Hod/Höðr into doing it. Ƿōdenhelm (talk) 08:25, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Baldr returns after Ragnarok, though. Maybe they will pick up from there; although, most of the Æsir gods are dead by then. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.224.1 (talk) 19:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe they're picking up after Ragnarok. Possibly the events leading up to it, as this is a trilogy, however i do remember in one of the dev diaries that odin was mentioned as being an NPC in the game Verratensie (talk) 06:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Release Date

Anyone able to cite where the information for the release date came from, because the official Xbox website lists a much later release date, http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/t/toohuman/. Estrin1 5:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Official Rating for Too Human

The official rating for Too Human is T in the U.S. If you don't believe me go to www.xbox.com and check out Too Human! Thanks-Letter 7/Caleb (talk) 16:13, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Why does IGN list it as M then? I have no idea, IGN is usually very reliable, but XBOX is too....72.138.216.89 (talk) 23:28, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Pre-orders, special editions, etc.

certainly something useful to have, if anyone has information on a special edition of Too Human, or if pre-orders get anything special; please include an article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Verratensie (talk • contribs) 03:59, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Confused

It says on this wiki that there is 2 player co-op, and the site says emphasis on 4 player expeditions. PLEASE TELL ME IT'S FOUR PLAYER! -.- Cowboy Brown (talk) 19:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

From what I gather, it's two-player co-op. Here's one site: [1] Vincent Valentine 23:38, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

It was originally planned to be 4 player co-op, but now it's just two players. SeanMooney (talk) 01:36, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any verification of that? Cowboy Brown (talk) 00:15, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes - ArsTechnica, IGN, Kotaku, Xbox.com... Denis Dyack said the gameplay was too hectic with four co-op players. SeanMooney (talk) 21:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Goblin Man part II

Second part of the Gobin Man documentary JAF1970 (talk) 21:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Character profile: Hel

GameSpy JAF1970 (talk) 22:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

About Co op

Does anyone know if the co op in this game will be available locally, or does my friend have to have a 360 of his or her own to play with me? This game looks like just the game I've been looking for to play with my girl, but if she needs a 360 to play too then forget that lol 72.193.35.195 (talk) 05:24, 21 June 2008 (UTC) Ty

I don't see why this wouldn't be local co-op. I'm not 100% sure, but I'd say it's massively likely that it will feature local co-op. Best, Vincent Valentine 13:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I really hope so, thanks 72.193.35.195 (talk) 16:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC) Ty

Everything I have read says xbox live co-op only, nothing local. If you can find somewhere that says there is local co-op, put it in the article, as I am in the same boat regarding wanting to play local with my GF. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.198.205.9 (talk) 17:43, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

viral video

I changed the heading title and edited the text, the title "Alternate Reality Game (ARG)" made no sense.87.102.86.73 (talk) 13:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

removal

I removed this :

• Influences

In addition to Norse Mythology, Too Human is also influenced by Friedrich Nietzsche, who wrote a book by the name of Human, All Too Human. A Nietzsche quotation, "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he doesn't become one himself," is shown in the beginning of a teaser trailer for the game. The same quote was also used in the introduction movie of the PC roleplaying game Baldur's Gate. One other possible influence could be the Roger Zelazny novel, Lord of Light.

It would all need citing to be included. Additionally I see no link between F. Nietzsche and the game except the title, and that could be chance.87.102.86.73 (talk) 16:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

The robotic enemies in this game are becoming human as the humans are becoming more cybernetic. So, basically the game's entire known story is from ideas by Nietzsche and elements of Zelazny's novel. (Futuristic humans using technology to become "gods".) I think this should be put back into the article, as it definitely has a place.

Where is that in any of Nietzsche's work - I'm not an expert but the article didn't seem to say anything like that.

As for Lord of Light there are similarities, but so has Stargate and probably many other sci-fi works. Did the developers specifically state this as an influence?87.102.86.73 (talk) 11:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I have never seen Stargate, so I'm glad you brought that up. While this isn't specifically inspired by Zelazny (as far as I know), it is very much alike to the story in the novel. (from what I have seen in the demo.)

As far as Nietzsche, I think that his quote at the begining of the demo might be as far as the similarities lie. Maybe when the actual game comes out there will be more, but at this point no one knows.

I imagine the theme of 'gods as spacemen' is quite common in science fiction, I've heard of other novels using a similar theme..

Hopefully one of the developers will 'spill the beans' in an interview about there influences, there likely to be more talkative after the game is released, (provided it's a fair success)

As for the Niettzsche quote - that is in the intro video etc, and the name 'too human' does seem to be inspired by the book Human, All Too Human, but I can't think of a way to put it in the article without it sounding like a guess ie speculation.

These writers [2],[3] do make the connection with Nietzsche, but I prefer something to link to that comes from one of the developers mouths. I'll have a look around and see if I can find anything..87.102.86.73 (talk) 10:27, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Not a very successful search.. here [4]from [5]

What are some of the influences you've used in the game?: (Dennis Dyack) There's Norse mythology for sure. I'm a big fan of literature. There's books like Hyperion where Dan Simmons tells the story of the war of the gods. It's one of my favourite series of all time. Lord of the Rings is Norse mythology but it's reinterpreted with all the same characters but spun in a different light.

was all I could find.87.102.86.73 (talk) 10:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Demo Class Glitch

I don't know how the person who wrote this thought that you can only unlock bioengineer and defender with the "stick + A" trick, but I'm playing as a commando right now via this glitch. Feel free to try it. 72.188.159.168 (talk) 22:17, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

release date

the new game informer magazine is out and it says that the game is already out (like august 5 i think it was) and it got a rating of i think 6.75 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.161.219.164 (talk) 00:49, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Develepmont history

There's comprehensive development history article at Ripten's website: http://www.ripten.com/2008/08/17/the-life-and-times-of-too-human/

That would make solid material for the development section of this article. Don't know about how reliable source Ripten is however... --Mika1h (talk) 19:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Release Date

A few anon ips have been adding "upcominggames.net", and its sister site "upcominggames.co.uk", as "references" to Too Human's release. While I don't think these are necessary at all, I changed the reference to Eurogamer instead, as it has established notability, verifiability and reliability, which upcominggames has none of (it's the sixth google results for "upcominggames"). Anyway, if anyone has a problem, discuss it here. Fin©™ 18:36, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Plot

Hi has someone finished the game so he could write a thicker plot? the current one is pretty lame 189.141.169.222 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm working on one, in the meantime I've been expanding the rest of the article. Stabby Joe (talk) 20:40, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

WPVG assessment/review

Also consider this a peer-review in which further improvements can be made. I will do about half now and half later. For the first half:

Lead and gameplay

• The lead says "action-RPG video game" while the first sentence in the Gameplay section reads action-adventure role playing game. Recommend change the latter to "Action-RPG" to maintain consistency and not throw off the reader.
• Camera control is limited to player, with the choice to readjust the camera back to its default third-person view being the primary following the player and swinging when the player does the same, similar to an auto targeting system.
  • Very wordy and needs to be clarified better. The sentence after that also needs sprucing up to improve the flow. (I cannot readily understand what is trying to be said, so I will not try to correct it myself.)
• Attacks can be combined to execute attacks…
  • Redundant. Rephrase and maybe change the second mention of "attacks" to "moves."
• For example, the Berserker being combat focused, Bio Engineer having advanced healing abilities and the champion being a balanced all rounder.
  • Make sure that is cited from the manual and not simply a synth or original research.
• During the game, the player players can collect various items that they can equip
  • Watch the sentence structure, there. Also make sure to maintain list form with commas and avoid overuse of prepositions when simple infinitive can do the job. I copyedited that and the following sentences, so hopefully it's a little better. The last sentence read more like comma splices, so I set the appositive off with dashes instead of commas. Also avoid weasel words like "further" and "also" if at all possible.
• As the player players progresses through the game…
  • Again, make sure all parts of the sentence agree with the noun type. I also moved the "slaying foes and achieving high combos" to after the mentioning of leveling up, as you want to say that players level up by slaying foes and achieving high combos.
• allowing access to more efficient items and skills that are used in the game’s Skill Tree mechanic
  • It seems to drone on a bit. I'll try splitting with a semicolon.
• In the early stages of the game, the player can choose between to alignments; Cybernetic and Human, both of which are.
  • both of which are what? Seems like something is missing there.
• Along with the single player campaign, Too Human also includes - another weasel that is not needed.
• I split Hosts can support… into two sentences, as it again seems to drone on.
• …single player games, earning and earn experience, levels, and items online…
• Avoid using abbreviations such as "co-op," as lay readers might not readily understand.

That's it for the first half. Will do the second half later. Good work, so far. MuZemike (talk) 05:22, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• In addition to what is mentioned above, more info on sales data and real-world impact beyond reviews should be added. Gameplay section needs to be trimmed as well. I gave it a C-rank as it is clearly a cut above start, but still a long ways away from a B-class.じんない 07:24, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Here is the other half:

Plot

• Baldur, the main character, is viewed by the other Norse gods as being…
  • Go to active voice here as opposed to the passive voice. i.e. The Norse gods view Baldur as being… (It's already acknowledged that Baldur is the main character in the previous paragraph, so repeating that assertion is not necessary.)
• "too human".
  • Remember, the quotation mark comes after the period/comma/etc.
• I am adding a {{refimprove}} template to the section, as it needs better referencing. Internet forums are normally not considered reliable sources. It is OK to use some primary sources to verify the plot such as the instruction manual or quotes/excerpts from the game if necessary. Try to keep the referencing as concise as possible and don't go overboard on it.

Development

• Watch the weasel words like "finally" or "also."
• Don't make external links to websites in the article itself. It not only is against the standard Manual of Style, it also comes off in a spammy manner.
• Remember to set off appositives (i.e. Excavation) with either dashes or commas. I have elected to set them off with dashes.
• The one sentence describing the mockumentary is way too long, please split those up into smaller, more manageable sentences, like I have done here.
• It is not necessary to tell the reader where to find it. It is better to include an External Link to the website under the External Links section.
• If conjunctions are not being used as coordinating, then do not set them off with commas, i.e."Unreal Engine 3, but is now…"
• it was announced that Silicon Knights was suing
  • Just use "Slilcon Knights sued." Try not to be that fancy with wording.

This is it for now. MuZemike (talk) 01:05, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Engine used for release

The article says that the unreal engine was not used eventually, can someone confirm this with a reference. Thanks.77.86.67.245 (talk) 01:22, 11 May 2009 (UTC)