Talk:Meshuggah

WP:METAL Importance

I've added a top-importance tag because the band seems to be very important. Rolling Stone calls them "One of the ten most important hard and heavy bands"[1], Yahoo! Music includes them in their list of "the 25 performing outfits who have made heavy metal what it is" among bands like Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Deep Purple, Metallica, Slayer, etc. [2]. Alternative Press: "most important band in metal" [3]; Exclaim!: one of the most acclaimed and distinctive acts in metal history [4]; and something here: [5] --  LYKANTROP  ✉ 19:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

The first one is a press release from the band's label, and it doesn't provide a citation of where this quote comes from. Also, you want to be wary of hyperbole when checking sources. Honestly, out of the entire 40-year-history of heavy metal, is this one of the defintive, utmost-important bands? Are they as important to the understanding of the genre for a general reader as heavy metal music, Black Sabbath, or Metallica? WesleyDodds (talk) 09:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

It has been stated in one of the publications of Rolling Stone, I do not know when exactly. But that does not matter. It is just a fact and it is sourced. That is what RS said and we do not need the direct sources (indispensably). It is a generally known statement. You can hear it in many interviews, articles etc.

I would answer your question yes, when I read the sources. Regardless, those sources seem not to be enough for you. I accept your opinion and I will write down "high" insted of "top". But I definitely do not agree with "mid" importance.--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 13:29, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Genre

Instead of adding many, many genres to the infobox why not simply add Various genres (See musical style)? Unless this labeling of avant-garde was meant as a catch-all term. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 22:05, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it actually was. They're just experimental, experimenting with all the genres.--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 22:33, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

You're probably right. I think experimental metal suits them better (which indeed would be a catch-them-all term) but on wikipedia we consider experimental metal to be synonymous to AGM (which I think is incorrect, AGM is part of the more broad genre exp. metal but that's an irrelevant discussion). I've reverted the edit as the Musical style section explains it better then some random genres (they seem random as Meshuggah have been labeled dozens of genres). So no genre or 1 catch-them-all term is best. Kameejl ^(Talk) 22:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I perfectly agree that the avant-garde/experimental tag suits Meshuggah, indeed my original removing of the tag was due to a misunderstanding of how the term was being used in that context. However, it seems some object to it reading "experimental metal" in the info box. Why is this? The opening line of this band page reads "experimental metal", and it would seem cleaner to have the two match up, and the avant-garde metal page itself notes that the terms are interchangable. So why refuse to have it? In addition, Garry Sharpe-Young's "Metal: The Definitive Guide" specifically calls them "experimental metal", not using the term "avant-garde", so this would, by wikipedia's rules, be more than enough reason to use that term rather than avant-garde. Prophaniti (talk) 10:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

1. Please do not edit the article so rapidly. Discuss and wait for an answer before you edit it please. The reason for this is that the article is a current Featured article candidate and such a changes could make it look unstable, which would be a problem for the nomination. Thanks.

2. For me is avant-garde metal and experimental metal are synonym. And the same says also the wikipedia article. The reason why I used Avant-Garde is the name of the wikipedia article and its sources. On the other hand, Meshuggah is often called experimantal. So I used both of the terms - one for infobox, the other one for lead section. For me it is also allright to keep both the same, but if there is some support to keep both experimental and avant-garde (as it was), I support it as well.--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 10:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

You're quite right that the two terms basically mean the same thing, and thus it ultimately makes little difference. Personally I think them matching looks best, and given we have a published source that uses that term I'd say that's reason enough to keep it as is. Prophaniti (talk) 12:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, They aren't really experimental. They're your standard thrash/groove metal outfit with hints of proggressive. Experimental/Avant-Garde applies more to bands like Arcturus, Age of Silence, Manes, and Naked City. It has a in-distinct sound, were as Meshugga has a mix of styles that have already been in use. This is why I suggest removing the "Experimental" label and include the genres this band represents: Progressive metal, Groove metal, Death metal, Thrash metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.142.218 (talk) 05:20, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the IP, this seems to be a much more accurate and helpful description. Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:27, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Meaning of the name Meshuggah

Hi, I noticed the article mentions the meaning of Meshuggah as "Crazy" in the Yiddish language. I happen to be Israely and my mother tongue is Hebrew - so I can verify that "Meshuggah" does mean "crazy," but in Hebrew. I'm actually not familiar with Yiddish but I find it hard to beleive that it is the same word exactly.

I can understand the reason for confusion, as both Yiddish and Hebrew are Jewish Languages, but in reality those two languages are very distinct (and actually belong to seperate language groups, as Hebrew is a Semitic Language, unlike Yiddish which is a Germanic language written with hebrew alpha-bet).

So I think this issue needs a clarification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bajoran Priest (talk • contribs) 13:41, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, that is interesting, but the sources that I used in the article talk only about the Yiddish language origin, so I can not really do something about it. But the point is that "meshuggah" is an English word with Yiddish origin. This word pobably got to the English language from the Yiddish language and not from the Hebrew language, because Yiddish was used in the European territories more than Hebrew. So the English "meshuggah" has Yiddish origin. The meaning of the word is not the crucial fact. It is the origin of the English version of the word. But thanks for giving information.--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 14:03, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Yiddish, although indeed a Germanic language, integrated many words of Hebrew origin into its vocabulary; it seems that "Meshuggah" is one of these words. It is the same word with the same meaning. Some words travel a lot :-) Gestumblindi (talk) 20:34, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Copy edit in progress

Lykantrop requested that this article be copy edited in preparation for FA status, so here I am. I will try to get through the article in the next week or so and will post improvement suggestions when I'm finished.

As I go through the sections, I may add inline tags to information that needs to be reworded/expanded for clarification, etc. I don't like mucking up articles, but I find that's one of the easiest ways to bring attention to things that need work. If you need to edit the article while I'm doing my thing, drop a note on my talk page, and I'll kindly excuse myself. mo ^talk 09:49, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks that you started the work! I have some comments/questions already:

• About the further information in the Destroy Erase Improve (1995–1997) section: when was "the Hamburg show" and which "Swedish television...": I do not have any sources with specific information. Only what I have is that the tour was "In the autumn of 1995" and the Hamburg concert was after "The first couple of shows". The TV is in the source written with capitals: Swedish Television. This maight suggest that it is the national Swedish TV broadcaster Sveriges Television. But that is a speculation. What do you suggest?--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 16:54, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

If you don't have more information on either of those subjects, I would suggest removing them, as they are awkward in their current forms. mo ^talk 06:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I removed the TV. The sentence "Nordin had to leave the band because of his sickness and was replaced by bassist Gustaf Hielm beginning with the Hamburg show." could be reworded to something like "Nordin had to leave the band because of his sickness and was replaced by bassist Gustaf Hielm during the tour." Is this suitable?--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 14:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

That works well. mo ^talk 15:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Allright, I fixed that.--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 20:29, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• "often with Hagström playing through a pitch shifter downed [clarify] an octave lower." What about "often with Hagström using a pitch shifter to alter his guitar one octave lower."? Does this make it a bit clearer?--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 16:54, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

What do you think of "often with Hagström using a pitch shifter to play his guitar at an octave lower than usual."? mo ^talk 06:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

That is good. I used it.--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 14:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Copy edit finished

As promised, here are some suggestions for improving the article:

• Remove non-essential album info from lead: everything after Destroy Erase Improve
• Catch Thirtythree and obZen section: the image of the band performing is similar to the one in the infobox. You may want to replace that one with the image of Hagström and Thordendal, which appears out of place in the Destroy Erase Improve section because it is not from the 1995–1997 time period.
• Keep captions succinct by limiting them to short, essential descriptions of the people/things depicted; see WP:CAP for guidance.
• Move some of the quotations to Wikiquote; see WP:QUOTE for more info.
• The links to several of the Decibel articles are dead. I suggest using an archiving tool such as Webcite to avoid future dead links.

--mo ^talk 20:11, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll sort it out.--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 14:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

WebCite archives for Meshuggah sources as of Jan 20, 2009

Links to some online sources became dead sometimes, which sucks if an article is based on them. So I archived most of sources for this article on WebCite as of January 20, 2009. Below this text there is a hidden note with those links. To see the hidden note, edit this page and it will show up. Cheers.--  LYKANTROP  ✉ 22:34, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I see that this became a featured article.

Yeah, pretty cool. I saw it one the home page a little bit ago. Congrats to all who contributed positively to this page. BT^C 02:37, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Your welcome. Cannibaloki 03:02, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I was taken aback when I saw my favorite band on TFA. Well done, everyone involved. Nufy8 (talk) 04:58, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Floating participle

The floating participle has been fixed in the article, but is still on the front page - can something be done about that? --5telios (talk) 08:45, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. For future reference, Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors is the best way to request changes to the TFA blurb. Nufy8 (talk) 18:14, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation Key

I think this page could use a pronunciation key to show people how you pronounce the name (such as metallica's. 24.226.55.107 (talk) 23:08, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed 124.87.106.67 (talk) 09:21, 16 January 2010 (UTC)