Talk:Mexico

External links

• Mexicanos en USA
• The Presidency of Mexico
• Official site of the Government of Mexico
• Chief of State and Cabinet Members
• Mexico Connect
• "Mexico". The World Factbook (2024 ed.). Central Intelligence Agency.
• Mexico from UCB Libraries GovPubs
• Mexico at Curlie
• Wikimedia Atlas of Mexico
• Mexico, an external wiki
• Template:Wikitravel
• Viva Natura: Biodiversity of Mexico

Mexican Population

according microsoft encarta 2009 the mexican population 2009 is 109.955.400, could you change please?

Communications

hi im living since always in mexico and yI will tell you that the biggest companies in telecomunications are :

1º telmex
2º unefon
3º Telefonica (movistar)

and right now other companies are getting on the business companies that began as cable companies as:

1º megacable (is more common than unefon) and is getting to be the first rival for telmex in mexico.
2ºtelecable (is being purchased by megacable little by little by sectors)
and more

well the point of this is to tell you that Axtel and Maxcom aren't players on comunication in mexico

Irrelevant Content and undue weight

The article has come to a point where we urgently need to fix it.

I see editors with hidden agendas adding content that is completely irrelevant to the article and that seems to me much more as fan talk than anything else. I lived in Mexico for many many years and I still have lots of contacts there. I closely follow the mexican press and I know:

• That 'Hydra Technologies' is not a major player in the aerospace/defense industry
• That 'Zonda Telecom' is not a major player in the communications/electronics industry whatsoever
• That this list will certainly grow as other editors with conflicts of interest continue to add content that is much more WP:self-promotion than anything else.

Mentioning CEMEX, TELEVISA or AEROMEXICO in the article seem perfectly normal to me as they are internationally recognized companies that play a major role in the country in their respective fields. But Zonda Telecom? Really? Do people looking for information about MEXICO really need to know that Hydra Technologies won a prize that no one ever heard of?

To the editors that seem to have an special interest in having mentions to the above mentioned companies in THIS ARTICLE:

please explain why and how are these mentions worth including in an article that is supposed to be about A COUNTRY.

I'm once again removing this irrelevant content from the article the time being.

Before reverting this edit or replying, please read wikipedia's policies about undue weight thanks.Cerealito (talk) 16:10, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

This Content is not irrelevant and just because something doesn't interest you or you haven't heard of it dose not give you the right to eliminate other peoples right to know this in information. Hydra technologies is relevant because Mexico is trying very hard to become to become a major aerospace power and Hydra represents the first internationally recognized aerospace innovator of Mexico. Zonda telecom is actually fairly well known even as far away as Russia and Europe so i don't get why this can't be mentioned since Mexico is a country which is becoming ever increasingly known for it's telecommunications sector. Lanix is a world contributor to the electronics industry so it seems very weird that you say it should not be featured in the scienc and technology section. I've read the undue weight section and talked it over with another editor and the undue weight doesn't apply to this. Also, corporations play a huge part in modern Mexico so they will have to be mentioned so there is no reason to revert things just because they involve private companies. Just because a private company is mentioned and positive things are said about it, it doesn't mean that it's a wikiad Rahlgd (talk) 00:45, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree, the content is not irrelevant `just because something doesn't interest me`. As matter of fact I do work in the aerospace industry. I'm deeply interested on UAVs. And that does not make Hydra technologies more or less worth mentioning in this article. Don't be ridiculous, I'm not taking anyone's right to know anything. They still have their right to know whatever they want, they just have to look it up in the appropriate sources, NOT HERE. The greatest example is the paragraph about the `Leonardo Da Vinci` prize. I'm not claiming it's not true I'm just saying it does not belong here.

`Mexico is trying very hard to become to become a major aerospace power` (sic). First of all, Mexico is not a person. Mexico can not be 'trying very hard' to do anything. If there are official policies to make the aerospace industry grow, that's cool. THAT might be of general interest in the article, maybe in the industry section. For now I just see a minor, not-well-known company taking two out of the seven paragraphs of a section that is supposed to be about the GENERAL state of science and technology in a country. How you ruled out undue weight there is completely beyond me.

`Zonda telecom is actually fairly well known even as far away as Russia and Europe.` Citation needed, please. I'm writing from a western European country right now. Never did I hear of Zonda Telecom until I came across with its mention in this article. We can keep the mention to Lanix if you want, at least I remember considering buying one of their computers.

As for your statements defending mentions of corporations in the article, I don't understand why you wrote them. I never had a problem with those, as I stated from the very beginning. Cerealito (talk) 11:02, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

In order to achieve concensus in the Industry/communications section, I'm removing the image of Zonda Telecom but leaving the text mention. I've requested citations though; the information given is very dubious. Cerealito (talk) 13:24, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

The glowing mention of Zonda, Hydra Technologies, and Lanix certainly fall under undue weight. This is not because I'd never heard of them (I hadn't, except for Lanix, neither in Mexico nor in Canada, where I live now), but because they are not representative of Mexico. Think the disaster the Mexico page would be if every moderately large company that won some award, or that exports to Latin America, or that does business with Europe or Russia, was featured on the page. JorgeAranda (talk) 13:33, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Fellow wikipedian Rahlgd: I deeply regret that you keep adding content to the article that is not relevant to it. We have a serious discussion going on here and you just reverted changes without any further explanation. Reverting changes without any explanation is against wikipedia's spirit, so please take the time to explain your reverts in the future. Let me assure you once again that I don't have any kind of problem with private companies. Please stop insinuating that, it is simply not true. There are many mentions to them in the article and I have never attempted to delete them, I'm fine with them and I will try to add more if they make a better article.

The point here is: the mentions to Zonda Telecom and to Hydra technologies are completely out of scope. I've given you my reasons and replied to your arguments. Fellow wikipedian JorgeAranda gave you more reasons. Looking for a consensus I edited the article removing the images but leaving the text mentions and asking for further references. You responded with a revert and silence...

could you please at least read the concerned sections as they are? I'm waiting for your reasons and arguments, don't you think that we could get to an agreement? Cerealito (talk) 21:00, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I honestly do think that it is completely appropriate to have at least Zonda telecom mentioned in the communications section because they have contributed a lot to the Mexican telecom industry and have made large strides to advance mobile technology in Mexico and as far as not being recognized internationally i don't see why Zonda would not be considered multi-national considering the six meter high zonda mptrez billboards in Moscow. I do understand the your issue with Hydra however and i will not attempt to over state them in the science and technology section but i do think that we can have the Zonda phone in the communications article because even using the logic that Zonda is not big outside of Mexico (which is not entirely true) it is still a major company in Mexico and the article is about Mexico and that section is about the communications of Mexico. To not include zonda in the communications article would be like talking about the automotive industry of Japan and not mentioning Toyota or Honda. Rahlgd (talk) 21:40, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Hello Rahlgd, thanks for replying. I see that you didn't completely reverted my changes. As a gesture of good faith I will do my best to get to an agreement here before I commit any changes to the concerned sections.

`I do understand the your issue with Hydra however and i will not attempt to over state them in the science and technology section` - OK now, I guess we just agreed on one point. Hydra technologies has text mention on the industry section. I guess that's already enough for a company that does not represent Mexico at all. Can we just leave the s&t section without any further mention to Hydra technologies? Moving on to Zonda Telecom...

`Zonda telecom (...) they have contributed a lot to the Mexican telecom industry and have made large strides to advance mobile technology in Mexico` - According to whom? please point me to at least 3 reliable sources stating this, otherwise this is just original research or your very personal point of view; In this latter case there is no reason to mention Zonda Telecom in the article.

`i don't see why Zonda would not be considered multi-national considering the six meter high zonda mptrez billboards in Moscow.` - Where are you getting this information from? This is the kind of statements that make me think of a Conflict of interest going on. How did you get this specific information? Anyways, I won't even ask you for further references on this. Even if Zonda Telecom is considered 'multi-national' they do not represent Mexico at all and an image of their products has no place in this article. If their billboards were double the size and they had them in London as well, that wouldn't change a thing: Zonda Telecom is not relevant here. You can add that to the Start-up Companies based in Mexico article if you want, but not here.

Finally, I do not think it is legitimate to just erase tags. I did add them because some statements seem dubious to me, and I ask for reliable sources. Content that is not verifiable is subject to be deleted in a reasonable amount of time. Cerealito (talk) 22:41, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Fellow wikipedian Rahlgd: You keep removing tags instead of adding sources. I couldn't find any reliable sources stating the information you insit to add to the article and that I find very very doubtful. I'm kindly but firmly requesting you to assume your burden of proof.

I'm also removing this statement: `Many Lanix products and other Mexican electronic products are marketed in the United States and Europe by Phillips, Sony and other companies under royalty agreements.` That was 'supported' upon this citation: http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/mexico/403485-1.html. As any editor will be able to see, that webpage has nothing to do with the Lanix corporation.

Cerealito (talk) 20:39, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Well i don't know how else to prove to you that Zonda is major representative of the Mexican telecom industry. That's like asking someone for proof that Samsung is a major representative of the South Korean electronics industry. It's just common knowledge. And yes there are Zonda billboards in Moscow right outside of Domodedovo airport and in downtown which i have seen so i'm pretty sure Zonda is known in other countries. I don't know why your so transfixed on getting rid of Zonda Telecom. Why would you even try to delete it's main article? If anyone has a conflict of interests it looks more like you just have some problem with Zonda. Zonda is representative of the Mexican communications industry for the following reasons:

1.It's Mexicos first indigenous mobile phone designer and manufacturer
2.It's products are used by large companies such as Telcel and America Movil
3.It is a Mexican company that other foreigners may know about
4.It has a large revenue and is a major corporation in the cell phone industry in Mexico and is known in other countries
5.It has integrated very advanced technologies and has been the first Mexican company to implement these
6.It employs over 19,000 people!
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Rahlgd (talk • contribs) 17:37, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Although I can see that some Mexicans may be proud of this list, none of its items are compelling reasons to devote a fragment of a page on Mexico to Zonda. A firm need not be mentioned in a country's page because it designs and manufactures mobile phones indigenously, nor because some other companies use their products, nor because foreigners may know about it, nor because it has a large revenue, nor because it features 'very advanced technologies', nor because it employs lots of people. Again, if criteria like these were to be used to accept mentions of firms in Mexico's page it would soon become a long and uninformative business directory.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I, too, sense a conflict of interest. I find it strange (but not impossible!) that a neutral Wikipedian would spend so much effort squeezing in a mention to this particular telecom. Perhaps you have nothing to do with Zonda and it simply makes you proud, and I sympathize with that, but I wish you could also see that, from a neutral perspective, a firm like that has very little to do in an article about a country. JorgeAranda (talk) 22:04, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Rahlgd: please review these very important wikipedia's policies Wikipedia:Verifiability. and Wikipedia:ADS#Be_careful_when_giving_examples. In a nutshell:

`The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed.` (emphasis mine). None of your claims have been sourced. Common knowlege does not apply here: I've been around for a while...

`Examples in articles tend to attract spam. Sentences such as, "For example, Chevron Corporation has ..." tend to attract editors to add more examples. Examples should be sourced with independent, reliable sources. Such examples should also be highly relevant to the article topic.` (emphasis mine). Even if you provided sources to the information you state, HOW relevant is it to THIS article?

`Review your intentions. Wikipedia is not a space for personal promotion or the promotion of products, services, Web sites, fandoms, ideologies, or other memes. If you're here to tell readers how great something is, or to get exposure for an idea or product that nobody's heard of yet, you're in the wrong place. ` (emphasis mine). You say that I have a problem with Zonda Telecom. Well not directly with it, but with their fans adding carefully masked promotion to wikipedia.

I'm sorry but I still don't see WHY should an article about Mexico have a big picture and a glowing mention of Zonda Telecom. In the best interest of Wikipedia and the present article, the disputed content should be deleted. It would be a real shame to take this discussion to the COI noticeboard Cerealito (talk) 01:48, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

In the absence of reliable sources, the poor relevance of the disputed content to the article and the lack of response from the interested editors, I'm once again deleting this information in spite of the lack of consensus. Cerealito (talk) 09:44, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Climate in Mexico

The information about Mexico's climate is poor because is missing much of the information of the northern desert climate and the extreme temperatures of 45 °C of more in the desert. {{editsemiprotected}}--Mario 181193 (talk) 04:07, 12 November 2009 (UTC)Mario 181193

Please explain exactly what changes you want made, and provide a reliable source supporting it. AJCham 04:23, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that this section should include the geography of the desert in Northen Mexico like in Sonora, Baja California, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, and small portions of Tamaulipas. It should include the extreme temperatures of 50 °C and upwards in the Sonoran Desert in Baja California and Sonora and the extreme temperatures of the major city Monterrey of 40°C adn upwards in summer time and that northern mexico is located at the same latitude of the deserts in northern africa and Saudi Arabia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mario 181193 (talk • contribs) 01:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Editsemiprotected

On the right section where it shows Mexico's declaration of Independence as sept 15 1810 that is incorrect the real date for Mexico's declaration of Independence is Sept 16 1810 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlochacon (talk • contribs) 07:20, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

mexico

many of our modern foods now come from mexico do to all the imigrents takeing there culter with them, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thereal21 (talk • contribs) 03:48, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

with population of 111 million, it is the 11th most populous country. Two amazeing to beleeve--all these 1s in a only place. is it be true? 70.153.208.164 (talk) 23:36, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Too many images?

This article has multiple issues, the most visible, perhaps, is the unnecessary amount of images. I've removed some myself (size has been reduced by nearly 8 KB), but I think it'd be better if there were a clear consensus concerning which images should be removed. Kraft. (talk) 03:21, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you. I have been deleting unecessary images for months! Sadly user Rahgld is to blame. He sometimes adds images that have nothing to do with Mexico, such as the one of Burbj Kalifah (world's tallest tower) or one about Voladores de Papantla is the sports section (C'mon!). Some very short sub-articles such as culture or tourism, have been stuffed with 2 or even 3 pictures in the past, something that is just too much. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 07:57, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

H1N1

In the section on Health and Education, I wanted to add http://content.glin.gov/summary/218560 so researchers can see the gamut of legal measures taken as a response to the H1N1 virus.

Reverting Rahlgd's edits

I felt I had to revert the recent edits by user Rahlgd for the following reasons: First and most upsetting, Rahlgd vandalized some numbers, such as the estimate of population in prehispanic times. Second, he continues to add pictures to an article that has already been discussed, several times in the past, as having too many of them. Third, several of the pictures suggest personal bias or conflict of interest issues. Fourth, some of the edits consist of dozens of small changes, few of them objectionable on their own, but together they add up to present the subject matter on a very different tone than what had been agreed by the community before --this is notable in the Industry and Military sections. I am sorry to revert other people's edits along with this. JorgeAranda (talk) 19:28, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

The numbers in the pre-hispanic times were sourced from national geographic. Also while you mean good faith in your revert you also reverted other peoples work and shouldn't have just reverted everything. If you want to get rid of some images, we should go over them instead of just reverting the whole thing. Also i am confused on how any of the images are a conflict of interest. I am going to revert the most recent edit and from there we can then decide what we should change. Rahlgd (talk) 21:50, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm with you Jorge. Rahlgd has been adding some dubbious information here and there, and while I personally am not against adding industry examples of success (such as Zonda), I am of adding too much pictures that are not representative of Mexico, such as the Burbj Kalifah or Aztec dancers. Rahlgd, I understand you want to portray better the image of Mexico to the world, but sometimes your edits are very childish, they lack of verifiable sources and sadly, other user might consider them objectionable due to the fact that it seems boosterism. The discussion about too many images has been long in the past... with you. You seem not to understand that a good article doesn't require that many pictures. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 22:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I haven't been very active lately because of personal issues, but I had been thinking of reverting a number of Rahlgd's little changes myself. It's really sad that some people just don't get that Wikipedia is about verifiable, neutral content and not about promoting their very personal idea of things. Cerealito (talk) 14:08, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah okay that sounds reasonable. Okay then, i'll not add information that might sound dubious without sourcing then. Sorry if i added thing that could be portrayed in a personally advancing manner, i realize what you mean now. I must disagree on the statement that Aztec dancers don't relate to Mexico. I'm not at all advocating the removal of of the other image in the culture section but i think that there can be both without the article having too many images. Rahlgd (talk) 18:10, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

No one (at least NOT me) has ever said that Aztec dancers "don't relate to Mexico". Current Mexican culture is far better represented by folkloric dances. Every single Mexican state have one typical dance. No state is represented by an Aztec dance I can assure you. And nationally, Jalisco dances have always represented the country and certainly Jarabe Tapatío is one of the most known Mexican folkloric dances in the world.

Also, there is the issue of too many pictures. A subsection with only one paragraph does not need two pictures. I have erase and will continue to erase the Aztec dancer picture. It simply does not belong to a subsection of culture.AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 06:56, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Prehispanic culture is definitely an important element of Mexican culture. But Prehispanic culture is already represented throughout the article, and this "Aztec Dancer" picture is of dubious representativeness. I traced it back to its source in flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dawn_perry/1120985813/), where I found that the picture shows "Aztec dancers demonstrate for the "Queen" at "tea time" at the Bristol Renaissance Faire in Bristol, WI." It is a bizarre picture, actually, and a caricature, and I do not think it is representative of Mexico at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JorgeAranda (talk • contribs) 14:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I honestly believe that the Aztec dancers can be considered a relavent cultural aspect to the culture section but i do see your argument that it could be considerd none-representative of the country as a whole. However i don't believe the current picture is completely representative to Mexico as a whole either and i think massive segments of the national population would agree to neither of the pictures as being not universally representative. So i believe that both can be considered equally relevent. If we only leave either one it is not completely representative of the whole nation and will lean to one stance or the other so i think that having just one is not trully representative of the cultures that make Mexico. Rahlgd (talk) 22:57, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

You're missing out the most important point: it is a sub-article. Sub-articles should not have that many pictures. So if one picture is displayed, let it be the one that represents better the "culture" of Mexico. Aztec dancers are not better to portray Mexico than a Folkloric dance, which is far more actual and more spreaded in all of Mexico. Also our marvellous prehispanic cultures are already well represented in the article, in other sections. Using too many pictures of ancient cultures only promotes a stereotyped Mexico. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 00:43, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I only want to point out the fact that Raghld has attacked me in a very uncivil way. He went for "help" to other user talk page kinda spreading a prejudice against me. He said that I'm against native Mexicans because I find the Aztec dancer picture not suitable for the culture section. WE have given him our arguments, yet he decides to make this a personal battle. So I'm not sure how productive is to "talk" to Raghgl, when it seems that the only thing that matters to him is to get the things done his way. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 00:54, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I said that because you have made those kind of remarks against me in the past and called me a racist because i said that there were more indigenous peoples in Mexico than whites. YOU CALLED ME RACIST! If anyone has spread prejudice it's you! You had no right to call me racist against anyone just because you disagreed with what i said! I'm not even indigenous so the fact that you said i had prejudice against whites and mestizos was ridiculous and purely you venting on me because you didn't like the information that i presented! I don't think that the Aztec dancer represents a stereotype at all. In fact it seems like you just have some problem with showing the Aztec dancer because it does not adhere to the culture you have in your mind as being the "true" culture of Mexico. And in the above text you failed to mention how you were the one who said i was racist in the first place, and i did not say you are biased because you did not want the Aztec picture, i said you were biased because you called me racist for saying there are more indigenous peoples in Mexico than whites and how you kept changing the numbers in the demographics section so it would look like there are more whites than indigenous people behind my back even though the information i presented was cited and accurate information! You were the one that lied and tried to inflate the white population and then you call me racist for presenting accurate information that went against you! That is why you appear to be biased against indigenous! It also appears that you are biased against them because you won't put a picture of an indigenous dancer because you say it does not represent the culture of Mexico! IT DOES REPRESENT THE CULTURE OF MEXICO! If you think it gives Mexico the wrong image then that's a shame because it does represent Mexico and it should not make you think it's the wrong picture of Mexico for people to have. It is downright disrespectful to think of a certain aspect of Mexican culture as wrong! It's no different than saying the people that practice it are wrong! If you really think that it is a stereotype than i don't get you at all. There are indigenous dancers because there are indigenous peoples. Just because you think that it may not look good and you may think that it is a stereotype doesn't mean that it is not a true representative of a part of Mexican culture. There are indigenous peoples all over Mexico and there are still people that adhere to indigenous cultural ways, and that doesn't mean that they are not representing Mexican culture. Maybe not the culture of Mexico you know but, still it is representative of Mexican culture! If you don't think it does than i can't do anything to change that. Are you honestly saying that 30% of the population does not deserve a single picture on the culture section showing an interesting aspect of they're contribution to Mexican culture as a whole? I could say that the Jarabe Tapatío does not represent Indigenous culture of Mexico so why should that be up any more that the Aztec dancer? Rahlgd (talk) 04:10, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

My thoughts: The Aztec dancers are folkloric dancers since they are predominantly a custom of the common people (hence the name Folkloric). These dancers are also found in professional schools of dancing and theater across Mexico. They have a very wide presence all over Mexico (even in the U.S.) and vary in style from amateur to professional. I have seen Aztec and other native American style dancers perform in the prestigious Teatro Degollado in Guadalajara Jalisco alongside other folkloric dances. As the people in this discussion have already said: these sub-sections are stubs and only the most general and wide ranging elements should be used as brief narratives, details should be saved for the main articles. In short words, we must stick to the "stereotypes," that is, those images that are immediately identifiable by the widest audience possible as being Mexican for the sake of overview. Putting up an image of an Aztec dancer will not affect the article at all and they are just as legitimate as the Charro if anyone wants to argue that only Mexican folkloric images should be included.

Also, You guys have hit a very complex snag which is basically the tip of a social iceberg. I have noticed that there is an ongoing battle in the Mexican community over conflicting identities with some arguing towards the Hispanic image while the rest argue towards the indigenous image with the "mestizo" awkwardly stuck in the middle. It's no mystery that the poorest people in Mexico are the indigenous and the upper classes are predominantly white Hispanics. Mexican politics and the media contain a mostly white staff despite the fact that the majority of Mexicans are darker. The racism and racial stratification that is a legacy of colonialism is still very present in Mexican society and attitudes. Many Mexicans are just resentful of Hispanicism and want nothing to do with a Hispanic identity thus lean and identify with the indigenous ancestry and heritage and try to uproot the Hispanic element. This is happening because Mexicans are feeling discriminated in their own country as the Mexican media mostly caters to a white upper class audience and promotes a culture that feels alien and foreign to the common Mexican. This harbors a cultural cringe as a result of the upper entrepreneurial classes judging the common Mexican to be inherently inept at being independent and autonomous which causes them to have to import almost every complex and manufactured thing (technology, training, machinery etc) from Europe or the United States while at the same time diminishing incentive and initiative in Mexican society. The resulting inferiority complex is only exasperated by the government and the upper classes welcoming all types of foreign nationals while deliberately oppressing it's own people as it.

Now I think I have gone way off subject. I only wanted to give a very brief explanation of what is happening behind this seemingly simple debate. These are very murky waters in the middle of a storm so the best advice I can give here is to stick with the facts and keep idealism and opinion at bay. Keep it simple as well because if you get into too much detail you will end up with the paragraph I wrote above. The article should only include what is relevant and encyclopedic, I personally believe that pictures are better than plain text. The number of pictures should be limited to somewhere between 1 and 3 if the text is long enough, and they should be relevant to the subject. Ocelotl10293 (talk) 03:09, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Ocelotl. I also think that folkloric indigenous dances are perfectly acceptable material for the Culture section. But the picture in question (source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dawn_perry/1120985813/), from a "Renaissance Fair," is a bizarre candidate to fill this role, as it doesn't represent any culture (Amerindian or European) appropriately. JorgeAranda (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Snowfall in Sierra Madre del Sur

I have never heard of such a thing... is there a reference? Snow is common in the Trans-Mexican Volcanic Belt (a.k.a. Sierra Nevada). In fact, the picture shows pine trees, which are not common of the Sierra Madre del Sur, but are very common of the Sierra Nevada. The author of the pic, describes it as "Snow in the mountains of central Mexico", but Sierra Madre del Sur does not cross central Mexico. --the Dúnadan 16:50, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Improving the history section

I noticed that recently someone changed the history section by adding a heading that said 20th century. That got me thinking that maybe we could expand the history section and provide more in depth explanations of specific times or Era's like in the Russia article. I think this would be a great way to improve the article and it would give a lot more understanding especially if each section in the history area explained how these specific times effected the people and influenced specific cultural or societal aspects. If anyone has ideas please share them here. Thanks, Rahlgd (talk) 19:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Deleted sentence from lead

I saw AlexCovarrubias and Bambuway working on this sentence in the lead: "Despite Mexico's position as an emerging power, the increase in drug-related violence and uneven income distribution remain issues of concern."

It appears that Mexico is a middle power and an emerging market. However, when I read the whole sentence, I started to feel that it is not quite right. Here's the problem: the structure of the sentence is "Despite the fact that X is true, Y is true." The use of the word "despite" suggests that one would expect Y not to be true when X is true but that in this particular case Y is surprisingly true. If we look at the list of middle powers in the middle power article and the list of Emerging markets, there are several other countries that also have drug-related violence (Colombia) and uneven income distribution (Brazil, India, Phillipines, Indonesia). Thus, I don't think the sentence gives the reader the right impression so I deleted it. There's no problem with either half of the sentence. It's just that when joined together with "Despite", the sentence implies something that is not true which is that it is exceptional for a middle power or an emerging market to have drug-related violence and/or uneven income distribution.

--Richard S (talk) 18:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right. The sentence was misleading in many ways, especially for implying Mexico as a great power, and the idea of a drugs problem being rare for a middle power / emerging market. Bambuway (talk) 18:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I also think you're right, and I think that information doesn't belong in the lead paragraph not just for syntactical reasons. The lead paragraph should give a very broad overview of the article's topic; drug violence and income inequality are important topics in Mexican society, but I think better dealt with later in the article. So, I commend you for being bold. Moncrief (talk) 17:15, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Mexican period. Starts in 1910, not in 1821.

For some reason, the U.S. or Wikipedia considers Mexico as a country since 1821. That is a totally different and disrespectful point of view to the Mexicans'. Mexico will celebrate it's Bicentenary in 2010. For Mexicans an for nowadays Spanish too, Mexico is a country since 1910. The 100 year anniversary was in 1910. 2010 is the year of the big bicentennial celebrations. Wikipedia has to change their wrong and disrespectful point of view. In 1821 the Spaniards finally gave up and signed, but for Mexicans, this doesn't mean that they were not a country since 1910. This is true not only for Mexico, but for many other countries in Latin America, and if you have any doubt of it, Spain is going to be present in the bicentennial of all these Latin American countries. Spain also acknowledges 1910 as the big date. Why the U.S. doesn't? This is true in many references to the History of Texas, the history of Arizona, and many more, where they state that Arizona became independent from Spain in 1821. Mexicans had their own congress long before, even if the Spaniards repeteadely killed their leaders. That should be revised.