Talk:Joan Jett

Grammar nerdage

"He mentioned a local bass player, Gary Ryan, that had recently been crashing on his couch." It should be "...who had recently been crashing..." "That" describes things. A little pedantic, but still, WIKI's supposed to be accurate, right? 71.178.136.83 (talk) 15:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)Jim

Bisexual category

It says nowhere in this article that she is bisexual, so why is she listed as a bisexual musician? She's very queer-friendly, but I've never heard anything about her sexual preference. Thorns Among Our Leaves 01:11, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I removed it. I expect somebody will try adding it back, and claim "everybody knows it's true". That category should obviously only be used if it's mentioned in the article, with a reliable source. --rob 02:17, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

It's a common misconception that categories must be backed up in the article. Whether or not this category applies here, categories are useful on their own and should not require additional backup in the article, unless there's serious controversy. As a matter of fact I don't think there's any controversy about Joan Jett, though she has not publicly come out. --Kstern999 21:41, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good, except for the fact that now I have "Make Believe" (a JJ song, nonetheless!) stuck in my head. I know, you know... everybody knows it's true... x_x Thanks! Thorns Among Our Leaves 17:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I worked with Jett a number of times in 1996. What was "known" about her then, and supported by her conversation, was that she was a lesbian. At least till that point, I had never heard her mention having a relationship with a man. I don't know, as an assistant recording engineer, that I am a "reliable source." Bifurcation 14:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I worked in a camera store at Roosevelt Field Mall on Long Island in 1987. Joan came into the store with a young female child and older gentleman. Could the man have been Kenny Laguna? The child was about 10 though I could not tell the relationship between the 2. Could it be possible Joan has a child? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.202.98.90 (talk) 05:40, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I just want to add, that out of respect for the queen of rock n roll, we should not specify her sexual orientation without asking her!!!! I hope she is bisexual because i am a 31 year old man and I think she is hot!!!!68.186.59.182 (talk) 04:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, Cherie Currie said in the Edgeplay Documentary that she and Joan had sex during their time in the Runaways. But I guess that's not a valid sorce either?@@ DingoateMyBabyyy 23:21, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Excessive negativity?

While charting at 19 and 57 is a drop from ILRR, Album still charted higher than Bad Reputation and Glorious Results' position is nothing to sneeze at. Aside from charting, Glorious Results is easily her most consistent album to that point and, while lacking a breakthrough hit song, it's a quality album. (Few artists get even one ILRR to drive an album, much less do it again.) Describing these as 'two clunkers' is a region of opinion but goes so far as to be virtually 'incorrect'. Good Music was a disaster, on the other hand.

She was not a 'backup' singer in the Runaways, but a 'backing' vocalist when she wasn't lead vocalist. In a band sense, Curie was the 'lead' but on a track by track basis, Joan would often take lead vocals.

Wouldn't hurt to mention DDDDC was later released on Hit List, though the version lacked energy and the album was incoherent. Also, an expansion on the so-called 'Riot Grrl' thing and a mention of L7 (they recorded 'Cherry Bomb' together, for instance) wouldn't be out of place. It's not so much that the Runaways were huge or Joan Jett or even all the 'Riot Grrl' bands but, together, they form a large and influential stream. Maybe also more on her influences, which are 50s/60s rock, punk, and metal. She didn't just randomly cover everything from Tommy James to AC/DC, but these permeate all her own music, as well. (Part of the reason Hit List was such a bomb was that it didn't convey any of this very well.)

I don't feel up to editing the article because I'm largely ignorant of her non-musical information and I'm biased regarding her music (which I do know) but I still feel my perception is accurate and that this article doesn't really 'capture' Joan Jett yet. --68.221.118.89 20:22, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Danny Bonaduce claimed he had an intimate encounter with her on the radio recently.

Stephanie Adams

I've flagged a mention of Stephanie Adams with a FACT tag; see this for the reason why. -- Hoary 02:43, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Now in the archive of that discussion page. The (near-) consensus on the talk page of Stephanie Adams was that very little of what the article said was both verifiable and non-trivial. So mention of Joan Jett has been deleted from it. -- Hoary 09:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

MusicBrainz

Could be a good link to get to her (and other artists) production of released music from MusicBrainz. They have some information about that she performed under the alias Patti Rasnick (See : Joan Jet's entry).

Like:

• Joan Jett
• Joan Jett and the Blackhearts

Wig???

The article states in the Trivia section that her hair during the Up Your Alley era was a wig?? Is this true? Is there a source for this? Has she admitted this? I would like to see a source verifying this. I searched the Internet and found NOTHING on it. Can someone help me out here?--Sivazh 19:02, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The author of the wig edit said in their edit summary that they were an assistant on the tour. I guess that goes against wikipedia’s no-primary-research rule but I think those ideological guidelines are mostly meant to smooth out controversy. This seems harmless (and why would someone make that up, I figure?) so I do not think it matters much whether it stays or goes.--209.6.158.247 08:32, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Cats - Where?

So is she from Philadelphia or Long Island - the cats say both.TerriNunn 01:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Long Island?

Why is Joan listed in the "People from Nassau County, New York" category?

Jett a New York Jets fan?

The picture shows a Joe Namath jersy. Chivista 22:13, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

She an ORIOLES fan! Cripes, this article is useless  :(

Joan Jett's date of birth

I ask anybody who wishes to change the birth year to place say something here on the talk page, and please put in a footnote. For now, I'm going by imdb. Also, please label your changes in your edit summary, and try not to lump birth-date change with other, possibly valid changes. Otherwise, you force others to keep all the changes, or revert them all (the latter being common and unpleasant) --rob 10:41, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Hey Rob,

I changed Joan Jett's birth date to 1960. While this is a subject of speculation among fans, her date of birth has always been listed as September 22,1960. Most sources including answers,com list this date as her birthday. (UNSIGNED)

1958 and 1960 are shown. We need a verifiable source. IMDb gives 1958,[1] so I've used this. Any change should be backed up with a reference. Please note many sites such as answers.com mentioned above are just mirrors of wikipedia. Tyrenius 20:25, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Although I also think 1958 is most likely, I would also support the complete removal of the year of birth, until we have a truly reliable source, and feel certain of it. As long as the article can state when various things happened (e.g. album release years), we can give people the required context of when stuff happened, without risking making a factual error. I won't personally remove 1958 as the year, but if somebody changes it back to 1960 again, I will remove that year. --Rob 05:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Someone changed it to 1960 again, but I've changed it back. If you want to remove it entirely I don't care, but it seems like we should be able to find a source somewhere. Natalie 19:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Today, again, it was made 1960. I find 1958 at IMDB and 1960 at allmusic, and no notation anywhere else including her own website. Maybe it should be noted either/or, until a definitive source is found? Salamurai 15:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I found an interview with Jett from Aug 2006 where she's asked how she feels about being 47. That would support her being born in 1958 (to be 48 a month later in 2006), but I wouldn't call it definitive. http://www.montrealmirror.com/2006/080306/cover_music.html Salamurai 15:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

When generally reliable sources contradict one another, they should all be cited and the discrepancy noted in a footnote. For an extreme example, see the footnotes on the birthdate of Magda Lupescu. - Jmabel | Talk 20:47, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe someone might notice that being born in 1958 (or 1960) and moving to Van Nuys in 1962, at the age of 13, is incompatible.DOR (HK) (talk) 06:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)DOR (HK) Feb 12, 2008

The date of birth seems to be getting changed frequently by anonymous people. I changed it back to 1958 today. Perhaps this paged should be protected to prevent this continued year changing battle. Ronark (talk) 14:14, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Discography

The discography section needs to be reorganized- separated by studio albums, live albums, compilations, etc. --Hotdoglives 04:18, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Photos

Several of my 1994 photos I've placed in the linked Commons category include other unidentified musicians (presumably mostly members of the Blackhearts). Someone who knows their way well around Jett's collaborators might be able to improve the photo descriptions. - Jmabel | Talk 20:44, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Robert Pollard comment

Who the fuck removed the comment that Robert Pollard made in the trivia section? It's genuine fucking trivia - ZEROpumpkins 12:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

• Never mind, it's back - ZEROpumpkins 11:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Politics

I remember reading somewhere that she was a spokeswoman for the New York State Democratic Party. Can anyone confirm or deny this? --Eastlaw (talk) 06:14, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Notable Instrument

I was wondering why nobody added this (I did): she played on a Gibson Melody Maker guitar, and Gibson even made a Joan Jett Signature model, though I saw her playing on a few other models in some pictures - is that worth writing?

"The Hit list" is not a compilation"

I don't agree with the album "The hit list" being marked as a compilation album. It's not a compilation album, its a Cover album. That was not an album in wich several hits from past albums by joan were compiled, it's an album composed only by covers of AC/DC, Sex Pistols or whatever. It's "The spaghetti incident" a compilation album By Guns n' Roses?. No, it was a new whole album, with no original songs, only punk covers. Same thing with "the hit list".--Barfly2001 (talk) 16:43, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

LGBT category

I put in the LGBT catagory, per Joan's plea that we take her music's word for it, as is sourced in the article. -- AvatarMN (talk) 20:17, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

No. Joan has never expressly self-identified. A living person must self-identify with the label in question. Asarelah (talk) 00:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Her saying that her music has identified the issue doesn't do the job? You want to be one of those people that she mocks for not being able to figure it out? -- AvatarMN (talk) 06:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

No disrespect, but I really don't give a damn what Joan Jett thinks of me. The rules say that that living people must EXPRESSLY self-identify as the sexual orientation in question, not dance around the question. Ergo, I'm leaving the category out. Asarelah (talk) 20:42, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

But what Joan said conveys that she feels she hasn't danced around the question. We'd infer nothing, she said "but I do it (answer questions about my sexuality) in my music". -- AvatarMN (talk) 03:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I disagree very strongly. Please review http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Categories She just hasn't given a direct answer. If you still have a problem with this, we can list this discussion under requests for comment. Asarelah (talk) 17:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Joan's intent is absolutely clear and direct. We know because she says, clearly and directly, that her music can be trusted on the subject and mocks what she sees as the cluelessness of those who don't get it. People get fairly identified as LGBT on Wikipedia all the time when they identfy a same-sex parter but don't "expressly" use the words "I'm gay" or "I'm bi". This is the same thing. If the guidelines are designed to protect a living person, then it's a clear case of WP:Wikilawyering to use the guidelines to override the principles of the guideline. Joan could hardly be more blunt that she wants people to understand her from her music and respect her decision to talk about this only in her music. Whether any of us think Joan's been clear enough comes second to her sourced statement that she feels she has been clear enough, and policies allow for some discretion in order to stick to the principles of the policies, i.e.: WP:IAR and all the other caveats in each guideline. -- AvatarMN (talk) 19:29, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid that we must agree to disagree. I'll list this under requests for comment. Asarelah (talk) 17:45, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

It hasn't shown up yet. -- AvatarMN (talk) 07:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I find it humorous in light of the article that we would be having a debate over any question of categorizing her when she has stated that she will not do so (I see no "plea" but the implied plea to let the issue alone). Leave the little section in the article invoking the controversy, and let her keep her mystery going (at this point, any conclusion one might draw after reviewing her music as she suggests in the interview would by definition be opinion, synthesis, and OR; fun, but not appropriate for encyclopedia).Steveozone (talk) 01:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Surely what is relevant, if not clear, about Joan's statement is: if her sexual orientation can be determined from her music, then wouldn't it be fair to say that the one thing she wants is to not tell the press, the media, and in fact anyone but her fans, what that is? In other words, whatever your personal policy on outing, Wikipedia's is that we don't out, and Joan doesn't want you to. Anarchangel (talk) 10:10, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

External link suggestion: New interview with Joan Jett

As an editor at Crawdaddy!, and to comply with COI guidelines, I am not posting the link to this new interview with Joan Jett and her manager, Kenny Laguna. However, I would like to recommend it on its merits, and hope that an editor will find the time to examine the interview and—if he or she sees fit—post it to the external links section on this page. I appreciate your time. Crawdaddy! [2]
Mike harkin (talk) 18:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Request for Comment: Sexual orientation categories

Strong Oppose : This speculation upon Joan's sexuality is no more factually conclusive than, and follows the same methodology as, a reading of the I Ching. If it is as spiritually uplifting, then it is so at the expense of WP verifiability. Her 'cited' comments' primary characteristic is deliberate vagueness, with the one exception being when she specifically and repeatedly made it clear that she doesn't want to say. Anarchangel (talk) 21:56, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Oppose The rules on biographies of living persons are fairly clear about this. Martin Hogbin (talk) 21:35, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment Steve: Joan saying "if you don't get it from my music, you won't from me talking to you" is not a plea to leave it alone, it's an invitation to refer to a previous statment and confirmation that the statement is accurate. Angel: Coming out in something public but directed at fans is a far cry from coming out to family and not the public. Darren Hayes came out on his web site, and I don't hear anyone saying that he was outed to non-fans by the reports on his statement at his site. Martin: the guidelines about Wikilaywering and upholding intent over misuse of the language are fairly clear about this. -- AvatarMN (talk) 20:29, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Oppose : I don't see her confirming anything in the interview, I see her being coy. The invitation to the reader to refer to her body of work and draw one's own conclusions is an invitation to engage in WP:OR and WP:SYN, fine for fan mags, not for an encyclopedia. There's enough here to justify only the existing article section indicating that she has purposefully encouraged speculation and cultivated mystique. Steveozone (talk) 21:28, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment Now after reading the quote from the Spinner interview that's been added to the article, I feel like a little bit of an asshole... But with just the Seattle Times interview alone, I really believed she was saying she considered herself out. -- AvatarMN (talk) 07:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Well I guess its settled then. Don't feel like an asshole, we all make mistakes like this. Asarelah (talk) 15:15, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

• RfC response: Wikipedia's policy is that the only way that a living person can be included in a subjective category (religion, political party, sexuality) is that the party in question must explicitly say so in to a reputable, verifiable, published source. Wikipedia does not interpret song lyrics to determine these things, even if it seems obvious, because this is an EXTREMELY dangerous precedent and goes against WP's policy of original research. For example, if you listen to Toby Keith's lyrics, you would swear down that he was a Republican although he self-identifies as Democrat. What Wikipedia does do is report on the facts. The facts here: she made the above oft-quoted statement and her lyrics include LGBT themes. The reader can draw their own conclusions -- which will probably lead to the truth anyway.--Esprit15d • talk • contribs 18:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

New pic?

How 'bout a newer updated pic? EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 04:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

That was a great picture, but you're right about it being dated. I put in a newer picture found at the commons. -- AvatarMN (talk) 07:23, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

It occurred to me that the former infobox picture could be used lower down. -- AvatarMN (talk) 07:31, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! I agree, it was great, but the new is excellent! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 22:02, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Maryland or California - Age 12 - 16

I am not sure the Wikipedia article is correct about where Joan Jett went to high school. The article says that she moved to Wheaton, MD in '67 (11 to 12 years old) and attended high school there. Classmates.com <http://www.classmates.com/directory/school/Wheaton%20High%20School_3.jsp?org=1800> says a Joan Larkin attended Wheaton High School in Maryland from 1971 to 1975. That would be from age 13 to 16. Various articles then say that a parental transfer brought her to Los Angeles, but not when. At least three articles say she moved to L.A. at age 12. <http://therunaways.com/> then select the Joan Jett page, <http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/jett_joan/bio.jhtml>, and <http://www.inoutstar.com/news/Joan-Jett-born-Joan-Marie-Larkin-1972.html> Is there any proof that she went to high school in Maryland, or is that just another Joan Larkin? Or is it a history re-write to imply she was in L.A. earlier than she was? If Joan was born in 1958, then she was a 16 year old going on 17 when she founded The Runaways, and yet most articles say she was 15. If that is part of the rock myth, then is her L.A. years pre-'75 also a myth? Mburrell (talk) 09:24, 4 March 2010 (UTC)