Talk:Les Paul

First solid-body electric

In 1941, Paul designed and built the first solid-body electric guitar.

I think Fender had a solid body electric guitar design submitted to them at the same time. I'm not sure, but I definitely remember reading that someone else had independantly invented it too. -- Jimregan 04:35 27 May 2003 (UTC)

It was Leo Fender, I think. The Broadcaster was released around the same time, and I think it was invented around the same time. -- Jimregan 04:38 27 May 2003 (UTC)

No one really knows who invented the first one but Fender definitely developed the first commercially viable solid body in the late 1940s. Ted McCarty of Gibson saw the potential, wanted Gibson's market share and this led to the Gibson Les Paul.--Phyllis1753 (talk) 12:21, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The "Chester and Lester" album was released in 1976. It had a follow-up album "Guitar Monsters" in 1978.

The page says that Les Paul's 1947 recording of "Lover, When You're Near Me" was the first time multi-tracking had been used on a recording." Not true. On April 18, 1941, Sidney Bechet recorded "The Sheik of Araby," playing all the instruments and overdubbing them -- soprano and tenor sax, clarinet, piano, bass, and drums. There may have been others.

"Recorded on WAX". Most unlikely. Wax recordings couldn't be played back - only used as masters. "Instant" recordings were aluminum disks covered with acetate and they could be played a limited number of times without serious degradation. Glass was used instead of aluminum when the WW2 war effort required the aluminum. 24Aug06

Death

i am positive les paul died some time this year. I just don't know when. does somebody know? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.83.8 (talk • contribs)

You are positively incorrect. Les Paul is still ticking, and picking, I believe at the tender age of 91. PJM 00:42, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Several years ago, I saw a televised birthday tribute to Les Paul on television in the US. Many top guitarists played solos, including Steve Miller, Eddie Van Halen, and particularly David Gilmour, at who Les stared wide-eyed and said "Boy, you sure play your ass off!" He actually seemed stunned by David's performance, which was a tremendous solo along the lines of David's typical style. I can never find that show or performance referenced. Does anyone remember it and where can we get it?Joe House (talk) 04:17, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

You probably mean "Les Paul & Friends: He Changed the Music" from 1988. It's available from amazon http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Friends-He-Changed-Music/dp/6302373611 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.194.181 (talk) 17:32, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Uh, he died today.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.209.246.225 (talk) 18:15, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Friendship with Django Reinhardt

This article makes no mention of his friendship with Django Reinhardt, which caused him to shift his musical focus from country to jazz and pop.

What's up with the pictures on this page?

They show an X-box for Les and a silhouette of a tree for "the log".

Ok, pictures back to normal now.

Birthdate?

The article says June 9, 1915, but the infobox says June 7, 1914. Whazzup? 199.126.161.143 23:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Divorce/Les Paul website

I am removing the word "amicably" from the article's reference to the 1964 divorce from Mary Ford for one reason: the official biography on Paul's own site (http://www.lespaulonline.com/bio.html) describes the divorce as "bitter." Sensei48 22:28, 11 July 2007 (UTC)Sensei48

Radio talk

"To this day, no one knows exactly how the Les Paulverizer works." I would think that Mr. Les Paul WOULD be the one to know EXACTLY how the Les Paulverizer works!!! 00:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)Troubleshooter5300:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)Troubleshooter53

Quote at top

OK here's the thing. The page currently says "Apple Inc. recognizes him as 'one of the most important figures in the development of modern electric musical instruments and recording techniques.'" But on apple.com/hotnews, it says "Wikipedia recognizes him as 'one of the most important figures in the development of modern electric musical instruments and recording techniques.'" The fact that I think Apple should not be quoting Wikipedia as a source for this sort of thing aside, who wrote this quote first?!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.135.175.1 (talk • contribs)

Further, the source that the footnote links to does not contain the quotation! Apple's startpage does but won't forever. I'll glance through the history to see if I can figure out what's goin' on.  — gogobera (talk) 19:49, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

What a bizarre case of circular referencing. The statement has been around pretty much from the Wikipedia article's conception, and an IP decides to attribute the claim to Apple, and uses a wrong link. Even then, as noted above, the page where the claim was made actually traces the claim to Wikipedia. Quite embarrassing for both websites, if you ask me. Dancter 20:04, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, an anon edit added, [[Apple]], fixed it to [[Apple Inc.]], and then added the reference link. It's either a somewhat creative vandal or an editor who doesn't quite get the idea of sourcing. Since the editor claims to have "fixed an error" by adding Apple, I lead toward the former. Either way, it's time to go back to how things were. — gogobera (talk) 20:13, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Linkspam?

Someone added a comment about the Iridium jazz club (the ONLY place to see Les Paul these days -- his Monday gig is not only well known but quite an accomplishment at age 93). It got reverted for lack of a source. So I added a link to a page that has tons of content. Not linkspam, since the whole point was to provide support for text someone ELSE added! What happened to assuming good faith? Oblivy (talk) 03:44, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

It's a non-notable club, which would make it linkspam. However, Katharineamy makes the excellent point that it shows he is still performing at 93, which is notable. Edward321 (talk) 23:49, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I moved the information up into the section that already talked about the iridium gig (which maybe should have been done in the first place). Think this is a reasonable resolution, but feel free to disagree/change.Oblivy (talk) 02:23, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll weigh in that this gig is worthwhile information for inclusion. Even if the subject were to die tomorrow, the fact that he maintained a regular nightly public gig into his 90s would deserve inclusion, and I think it would be informative rather than commercial to mention which club the gig was in. A number of other notable musicians have come to see Paul perform at Iridium Nightclub, e.g. Paul McCartney. Robert K S (talk) 18:37, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Couple of things..

First, I noticed some weasel words in the text, but as I haven't been editing the article, I left it alone. Second, shouldn't the Epiphone company get more than a sentence mention? Gibson has a big part in the guitar, but aside from Epiphone makes models that are cheaper (or something like that), there's no real mention. I couldn't figure out what to do with some signature Les Paul guitars, like the Slash 2008 Gold body Les Paul. I put it in the Honors section, since I couldn't figure out what else to do with it. Can someone help with that? Thanks. --leahtwosaints (talk) 10:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the Slash sections you added don't have a relevance to Les Paul. Also, those sections were repetitive, poorly written and sounded promotional to me. That material, in a more trim and slim format, would be appropriate at the Slash page or the Epiphone page, but not here at Les Paul. I removed the sections. Binksternet (talk) 12:31, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Birth name

"His birth name [of Polfuss] was first simplified by his mother to Polfuss". Eh? Isidore (talk) 20:04, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, it says at the top of the article he was born Polsfuss, with an s, so I guess the first sentence in the Biography section: "He was born in Waukesha, Wisconsin to George and Evelyn Polfuss.[2]" has a typo. Reference [2] only talks about Polfuss, though. Isidore (talk) 20:14, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

This was a time where surname spelling was not set in stone and many immigrants simplified their names over the years. If the mother did it, she got her in-laws to change their name, too. Questors (talk) 20:28, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Les Paulveriser

The short section on this, I believe, needs a rewrite. The more research I do on this subject the more I come to the conclusion that the whole thing was an elaborate fake/hoax. The 2 commonly seen video clips (both on youtube), when examined carefully, show quite clearly that the phrases he plays are actually nothing like the phrases that play back to him afterwards. Take the "drumming" he does on the guitar strings. This actually starts partway through the phrase but when the "Les Paulveriser" plays it back, the drumming starts immediately, ie right at the beginning of the phrase.

Also, the chords he plays are slightly different from what gets played back.

In one particular section the "device" starts to play back before he has swtiched it on!

In one invertew Mr Paul almost (seemingly) admits that the "invention" was device used to *explain* how he could play 2 guitar parts at once, as opposed to a device to actually allow this to happen.

I don't wish to take anything way from Mr Paul as he did a lot regarding the initial introduction of the instrument (guitar) but I think this matter needs clearing up.

Anyone up to the task? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.120.42 (talk) 16:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I've rewritten it to reflect the fact that it is actually a hoax and that the device didn't actually exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.88.175 (talk) 09:10, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I see this section is back stating the device exists and even to how it worked but no citations. It did NOT exist. The technology simply did not exist in those days. Another Wikipedia "fact" joke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.47.222.8 (talk) 10:13, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Big Band & Jazz Hall of Fame Foundation

I took out the mention of Paul being inducted into the Big Band & Jazz Hall of Fame Foundation's Big Band & Jazz Hall of Fame in 1990. This organization, based in the relatively empty north half of San Diego County, California, is not prominent enough to make their recognition of Paul noteworthy. To me, it looks like an active big band grew out of the foundation or vice versa, muddying the waters regarding what the org's mission is. Are they about getting gigs and preserving the big band experience or are they about hosting awards ceremonies and reaching out with education about the inductees? I don't know. The band's current website, bigbandjazzorch.org is a recognizable descendant of the Foundation's old website but there is no longer any mention of the Hall of Fame. It appears as if they stopped supporting the institution.

Just in case anybody wants to see who else this non-profit org nominated for their Hall of Fame, here's an archived list of inductees from 1978 to 2004, a snapshot from 2005 near the end of the domain's usage by them. Their old URL, www.jazzhall.org, was lost to a domain squatter, so only the archived versions of the old website are available.

Bottom line is, I don't think this particular Hall of Fame is a strong enough entry for placement here on the Les Paul page. Binksternet (talk) 01:40, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Needs work badly

This article is full of hear-say and uncited material.It should be cleaned up or pulled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.71.115.212 (talk) 15:57, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.102.55 (talk) 02:30, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Section with quotes from others

I deleted this section added by Master of Puppets, as it is not encyclopedic standing alone as it does, and against the hidden note at the top of the section, the quotes are not actually necessary to establish Paul's notability. Any of the quotes that people would like to keep should be worked into other sections where the presence of the quote makes sense chronologically or in terms of subject matter. Binksternet (talk) 02:57, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

They're not there to establish his notability, but the notability of his death. How else do you suggest we gauge public reaction to this? There are barely any articles on it or interviews with celebrities. The quotes are the only information we've got. Though next time it would probably be a better idea to check here first before deleting... :P Master of Puppets - _{Call me MoP! :D} 03:00, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

What is the "notability of his death"? The best way to use these quotes is to work them into article text, to wrap contextual prose around the ones that have a context. Binksternet (talk) 03:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Work them into the article text? How? You'd turn it into an obituary if you did. The quotes will be gone after we've got enough material for a sturdier section; for now, they're needed (and aren't standing alone) to establish reaction to his death. Without them it seems like nobody's responded. Master of Puppets - _{Call me MoP! :D} 03:04, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

How is it not an obituary with the quotes? Binksternet (talk) 03:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

As I've said before, the quotes are the only thing right now we have in the sense of the reaction of the community. You'll find them in every magazine or newspaper press release. They're inevitable because it happened today. Not including them seems silly, to me at least. Also, if they're only in one section then they're not filling up the whole article. We'll remove them after a few days. Master of Puppets - _{Call me MoP! :D} 03:16, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not down with an addition that is intended to last only a short while. I'm no fan of recentism—I try to edit for the long haul. I don't think we need a sense of the reaction of the community to his death. Instead, we should have more of people's responses to what he did in life. Binksternet (talk) 03:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

It wouldn't be recentism - his death, and community reaction to it, is encyclopedic and important to note. Again, the usage of quotes would be best. We can improve the life section, too, of course. Master of Puppets - _{Call me MoP! :D} 03:34, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Anyone could quell an argument regarding is notability in general by drawing one's attention to the fact that many people "invented" and "built" and "played" solid body electric guitars and experimented with overdubbing and multitracking long before Les Paul did, he was merely one of the first who were noticed through making it commercially viable/successful/popular. There are countless others who unarguably did far more for SBEGs and recording techniques than he. Nick carson (talk) 12:41, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

There's nothing talking about whether he invented them or proving his notability in this section... Master of Puppets - _{Call me MoP! :D} 14:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

As a further reply to Binksternet; notice the very prominent usage of quotes in news publications right now as the only view of gauging artist tribute; BBC News and NME, for example. Every other publication just gives a history of his life, which is dandy and everything, but there's no attention paid to the reaction to his death and how this is affecting things. Unless I've gone insane, I think that's got encyclopedic importance. Master of Puppets - _{Call me MoP! :D} 14:40, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Children

Why no mention of his offspring? He had four kids, two of whom he had with his first wife Virginia, who is also unmentioned. -- 98.221.131.77 (talk) 03:35, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Born/died symbols

Why is there an asterisk and a cross in this article's born/died line? (* June 9, 1915; † August 13, 2009) I have not changed it since I am unsure if it actually means anything beyond someone's effort to emphasize the dates. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 10:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe that the cross is a traditional European way of denoting DoD--Phyllis1753 (talk) 12:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia convention is" (b June 9, 1915; d August 13, 2009). Nick carson (talk) 12:36, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

English Wikipedia convention is (June 9, 1915 - August 13, 2009). Information yes (talk) 17:18, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Tributes in 'death' section

This information is irrelevant, one can be assured there are many guitarists out there sending tributes via all sorts of mechanisms, why should we focus on Rolling Stone Magazine as the medium and the famous guitarists listed as the tributaries? This is very nearly merely blatant advertising and I have removed the content. Nick carson (talk) 12:29, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, Rolling Stone is a premier and internationally-recognized source for music news. That's not advertising, that's fact, and that's why we accept it as a reliable source. You could use any other source (in fact, I did) in the same manner, though; I just chose Rolling Stone to further signify the notability. People are very keen on reading into things these days, aren't they? :P Master of Puppets - _{Call me MoP! :D} 14:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Illness

"His attorney stated to the media that Paul had been "in and out of the hospital at least 9000 times" because of illness." - so this means he had been in and out of hospital OVER 9000 times... -- Jimbo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.26.199.252 (talk) 13:09, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Hall of Fame

The article claims that Paul and Ford were inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame in 1978, but from what I've been able to find, the HoF is for specific recordings, not people. The duo are in with "How High the Moon", but that's in 1979. Am I missing something? Clarityfiend (talk) 01:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Ancestry

The article currently states that Paul was Jewish, using this website source, but I don't think it's all that reliable - dated August 13, 2009, the writer could well have just copied the Wikipedia page (and I don't see any older sources state that Paul was Jewish). The 2003 book "Famous Wisconsin Musicians" by Susan Masino (and with a forward by Paul himself) mentions Paul's attendance at church socials (Pg. 9-11). It also states that his mother was related to the founders of Stutz Bearcat and Valentin Blatz, founder of the Valentin Blatz Brewing Company, who wasn't Jewish. I think Paul was just of non-Jewish German background (the fairly long family history here doesn't mention a Jewish background). All Hallow's (talk) 04:27, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

http://blastmagazine.com/the-magazine/entertainment/2009/08/a-blast-goodbye-to-les-paul/

There are many refs from jewish sources as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.212.90.254 (talk) 19:18, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Your cite only says that the father was "Prussian" and emigrated to the US via Germany. He may or may nothave been Jewish. His mother probably wasn't Jewish, but about the father---who knows!

The cite you removed said "Lester William Polsfuss, the son of a Jewish-Prussian family in Wisconsin." Stop removing citations. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 13:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

The Log

I heard a description of this on NPR yesterday, and was hoping to find an image of it here. Is it worthy of an image, given it was his first Solid body guitar? ThuranX (talk) 06:55, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely. It was the first electric guitar, period, I believe. If a usable image can be found, it would improve the article. Jusdafax (talk) 22:42, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

What? It wasn't the first electric guitar by many, many years. It was almost a decade after other companies were already selling them in shops never mind messing around trying to get one working. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.121.202 (talk) 21:58, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Order of Names

Why is Slash listed before rock legends like Jimmy Page and Pete Townshend in this article? That just looks silly - like it was written by somebody with a Slash agenda.

59.97.64.88 (talk) 09:43, 15 August 2009 (UTC)GD

Rolling Stone accolade

I added Les Paul's inclusion in Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time as a tribute only to see it immediately reverted as "too promotional." However, I see a clear indication herein (re quotes from the magazine upon his death) that Rolling Stone is a recognized and respected source. On this basis, and because I find it significant, I will reinsert the statement (slightly reworded) within the next hour or so unless I see a better argument against it on this page in the interim. 99.246.28.112 (talk) 01:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Here's a six-week-old thread that was my basis for taking out your recent addition: Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2009_June_12. Many of the arguments expressed apply here. Nothing personal, man. Cheers! Binksternet (talk) 01:42, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Death

I deleted the list of tributes because the three articles cited did not support at least 8 names (out of 23) including Townshend, Clapton, Page, Anastasio, May, and The Edge. I haven't checked them all, but this list has become a magnet for random namedropping (as in today's Zakk Wylde tag). If I'm mistaken please let me know. The articles do support the quotes so I moved them. Oblivy (talk) 00:37, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Good move. :-)

Binksternet (talk) 05:29, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Date of Death

Les Paul's date of death has been an issue over time on his page, but editors seem to have settled on August 12th based on the official website [[1]] and a photo of the brass plate on his coffin. The problem seems to be that the New York Times obituary gives his date of death as "Thursday [August 13th]." [[2]] I think the 12th is the right date, but wanted to make a note in light of the recent edit by User:66.189.178.14 and reversion. Oblivy (talk) 14:27, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Broken Records Paragraph

Noted the new paragraph on a broken records interview. This doesn't seem to fit wikipedia's standards, for a few reasons including (1) non-notable publication, (2) no citation/verification of the "last cover story," and (3) written like an advert for the article. It's also misplaced in the article. Am considering removing from the article but would like to give others a chance to weigh in first. Oblivy (talk) 02:10, 13 August 2010 (UTC)