Jump to content

Talk:Brigitte Gabriel

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by CatherineMartin7 (talk | contribs) at 19:05, 10 May 2011 (→‎Editing Brigitte Gabriel's Page). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


WTF

Who the heck is dropping fact tags on the most basic info like her status as a Lebanese Maronite. Yeah because swarthy looking people named "Gabriel" are always from other places, there are no Gabriel's in Lebanon. Quit politicizing the article with tags, idiots.

How about no dirka dirka jihads edit this page or even comment it because it apparently pisses em off. Let her views and accounts be put into the article. After all she was THERE and you all weren't so who are you to contradict that?? Someones got to take out this "she claims' stuff. It is obviously biased.

Is it also biased to say that she claims that Arabs are "barbarians," have no soul or that Islam is evil?Shabeki (talk) 19:12, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

content errors

There is one piece of the article which I think should be deleted, the small paragraph claiming that Gabriel previously incorrectly identified Hezbollah as the organization that terrorized her family from 1975 to 1982. It is sourced by a website entitled Al-Ahram Weekly. I looked at it, and the article appears to be nothing more than a long rant against Gabriel, hurling insults at her. The website is also extremely anti-Israel and makes several false accusations against it. In light of this, I am not sure how reliable the claim that she made the alleged mistake is, especially considering I have found no other source supporting the idea. If another one cannot be found, then the paragraph should be deleted, as its current source contains errors and bias. --69.128.204.110 (talk) 04:42, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at the website again and found more factual errors that it makes about Brigitte Gabriel. I do not find it reliable and am removing the paragraph that I previously spoke of until another source can be found. --69.128.204.110 (talk) 15:52, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All you have to do, is to look below to see that Dr. Frank Lamb's article was published by other sites other than Al-Ahram. Therefore your beef with Al-Ahram falls apart over here. Moreover you cannot get rid of a source just because you believe it is biased. In other words you have to find a source that says Dr. Frank Lamb is biased, in order to remove it. That's way it's done. Otherwise you saying it is biased, could be perceived as your own POV. George Al-Shami (talk) 07:09, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Maybe, if he has been published by other sites, a different one could be used other than Al-Ahram. I won't remove it again, but the website itself appears to be biased. Would you call a website that contains a number of inflammatory anti-Semitic cartoons unbiased? --69.128.204.110 (talk) 21:55, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, around the world, there is no news organization that is 100% unbiased, just by talking about one thing and not talking about something else; you could mention a bias. For instance the Dutch newspaper that printed the Muhammad cartoons; can we say they're biased against Muslims? Up until now people had a problem with Al-Ahram, not because of the alleged anti-jewish cartoons, but because of its former pro- (Egyptian)regime bias. However I don't think you could frame a news organization to be anti-jewish, just because it printed cartoons that some would consider offensive. I'm from North America, and I could tell you that I have seen many caricatures of the stereotypical Jew in North American newspapers. I saw that once in USA today, and in the New York Times; and the New York Times is owned by a German Jewish family. There is a URL below that features the article by Dr. Frank Lamb from a different site, but I am reticent to use it, because the host site is not as prestigious as Al-Ahram online. But, I forgot to mention, most importantly, that if you want to remove it; you have to have a consensus. Al-Ahram is an old newspaper that was founded in 1897; a blog does not carry the same weight as Al-Ahram. Furthermore I believe you are making generalizations just because you read or was told by somebody about a cartoon in Al-Ahram. I have read Al-Ahram for many years, and I could tell you that, aside from supporting the recently deposed Mubarak, it was a pretty credible site, which published many articles from Western political analysts and thinkers. As it stands now, there is no consensus to remove the Al-Ahram source, and I don't think the below URL, which also published Dr. Frank Lamb's article, is as credible as Al-Ahram. If you have problems with Al-Ahram, then the onus is on you to find another credible site that has published Dr. Frank Lamb's article.George Al-Shami (talk) 02:28, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the alternate Dr Franklin Lamb article located at http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/2008/03/from_lebanon_wi.html might be better since it lists his credentials at the end of the article, and they are substantial: Franklin P. Lamb, PhD Director, Americans Concerned for Middle East Peace, Wash.DC-Beirut Senior Fellow, The Institute for Middle East Policy Dialogue, USA

His published book: The Price We Pay: A Quarter Century of Israel's use of American Weapons against Lebanon (1978-2006) is available at Amazon.com.uk or Lebanese Bookstores (soon also in Arabic). And in the USA, the title is available at www.LebaneseBooks.com, and currently enjoys Free Standard Shipping.122.107.147.121 (talk) 15:24, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Any other views? The above URL links to an organization. Can somebody find the same article published in a more credible site? George Al-Shami (talk) 23:53, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I didn't see it but his credentials are also listed on the Al-Ahram site as well: The writer is director of Americans Concerned for Middle East Peace, Washington, DC-Beirut, and is senior fellow at the Institute for Middle East Policy Dialogue.

So what that previous IP complainer was on about I don't know. I found another link http://www.countercurrents.org/lamb250208.htm but I think Al-Ahram is just fine.122.107.147.121 (talk) 03:26, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Islamophobia

Gabriel has been accused of being 'anti-Islam' and Islamophobic. She has made sweeping remarks about Muslims.

Generally if someone has made such remarks about Jews, and media sources called this person, we would title the section antisemitism.VR talk 07:38, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gabriel does not criticize Muslims in general but rather the religion and the Islamic terrorist attacks (which number up to almost seventeen thousand since the 9/11). She has stated numerous times that she does not believe all Muslims are terrorists and that she even knows a few moderates. Criticism of a religion is not racist. Islam is not a race. Nor is questioning the claims that Islam is a "religion of peace" a "phobia." A phobia is by definition an irrational fear. There are Islamic terrorist attacks every day, so being skeptical towards the "religion of peace" slogan is perfectly understandable, especially for someone who grew up in the middle of it. Accusing someone who disagrees with you of having a phobia is a poor attempt to dodge criticism and actually rather juvenile. --69.128.204.110 (talk) 18:32, 20 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"A phobia is by definition an irrational fear." In the Crusades of the Middle Ages, from years 1095 to 1291, it's estimated that Christians killed anywhere from 20,000 and 500,000 Muslims. Adolph Hitler, a Catholic, is estimated to have been responsible for the murder of 5 million Jews. Harry Truman, a Southern Baptist, killed over 100-thousand Japanese by dropping atomic weapons. Andrew Jackson, a Presbyterian, killed an untold numbers of Native Americans in his zeal to colonize the west. George W. Bush, a Methodist, ordered the invasion of Iraq and is the man most responsible for the deaths of 100's of thousands of Iraqis. Timothy McVeigh, a Catholic, killed 169 people in the Oklahoma City bombing. The overwhelming majority of serial murders are white males of some Christian faith. But it's the 19 al-Qaeda terrorists, who murdered the nearly 3,000 people, who inspire a rational fear? You tell me, what is an irrational fear and what is real? Is the fear based on facts, on the historical record, or on someone's ethnic or religious affiliation? It seems as though if the world were being rational, it has most to fear from white Christians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.98.121.228 (talk) 01:49, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Uh, do you have something against Caucasions? A person really can't help the color of their skin.

Aside from that, a few of your facts are inaccurate. Timothy McVeigh claimed to have a few "Catholic values" but in regards to religion said he was an Agnostic. Hitler, though on a rare occasion referenced God for political benefit, is clear to have been disgusted by Christianity. He called it "an invention of the Jew," a product of "sick brains," and "gutless." In fact, the Nazis listed Geistlich (pastors, priest, and clergy) right alongside Jews in the concentration camps. The majority of Europeans who sheltered Jews during WWII were Christians. I would hardly label Hitler a Christian. As for America's war with Iraq, there was a strong suspicion of nuclear weapons, which could easily result in mass destruction. Your number of deaths is in addition highly inflated.

On the other hand, there have been in the last ten years an estimate of seventeen thousand Islamic terrorist attacks. Their literature often refers to Israel as "the small Satan" and America as "the great Satan." Is further comment necessary? --12.187.9.2 (talk) 22:06, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Archived

I tidied up a lot of the old discussions. Clearly the living subject is a bit controversial. Moving forward, please remember WP:BLP applies on talkpages also, attacking opinionated uncited claims and comments about living people are violations of policy. Also please keep discussion focused on content additions and removals etc and avoid WP:FORUM discussions and please avoid posting external links that are not WP:RS as such they are of no benefit to the article because they are unable to be added to it, thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 16:32, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Page protected

There have been unacceptable breaches of Wikipedia policy on this article. New editors in particular should read WP:COI and WP:3RR, as well as perhaps taking some comfort from WP:BALANCE. In the meantime, I recommend some WP:TEA and while you drink it, I've semi-protected the article. --Dweller (talk) 16:57, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Editing Brigitte Gabriel's Page

In editing Ms. Gabriel's page today I did not think there would be this eruption and such a war here. I dont think that it really helps the article to have her name as other than Brigitte Gabriel and for security and privacy purposes it should be deleted. The article is a negative portrayal of what her mission and I know that being a public figure as she is there are always going to negative things written about such a controversial person but in all fairness maybe you could have written some positives about her in the article to balance the negatives. I appreciate your help in the editing process and you did a great job with your research. I just recommend that the article remove her name and in its place as Brigitte Gabriel only. Also lastly, the Alan Kornman incident was not of her doing and she is not affiliated with this at all. Yes, it happenned at an ACT Chapter Meeting but it was denounced by her and the matter was taken care of. Once again - thank you for your edits and your research. I just wish we would could have some fairness her.

Catherine Martin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cocomac7 (talk • contribs) 17:10, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. That wasn't a war it was just a little wiki spat and then the real business of discussion begins, the only way to works things out here is through discussion and WP:CONSENSUS - clear policy violations are removed and then discussed if need be. So you want to remove the real name for security and privacy and you feel the article is unbalanced towards criticism and that she was not connected and actually denounced the "Alan Kornman incident" - so there are alt least some issues to discuss now, thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 17:29, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I trimmed the content about other people, such as Kornman - they are nothing to do with this living person. If people want to add content about other people from ACT! For America - they need to create an article for the group. As for the name, I can't see where it is cited from and if it is well known I don't know I will look later on a google foo search. - WP:BLPPRIVACY and WP:WELLKNOWN are the guidleines that I think are related. - Off2riorob (talk) 17:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The name "Nour Saman" is not Gabriel's real name. It is another alias she used while working as an anchor. It is cited to an article in the NYTimes (see here) which is cited in our article. Gabriel's real name, according to Debbie Schussel, is available online at the latter's blog. I won't be adding it to the article because I don't think Schussel is an WP:RS. If an WP:RS prints it though, as they printed the name "Nour Saman", then of course, it should be included in our article. Tiamuttalk 18:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the link, just getting slowly up to speed. Off2riorob (talk) 18:52, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please add / change the following: Gabriel also used to tell audiences that Hezbollah <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah> was the group that terrorized her family for the seven years between 1975 and 1982. She stopped making this claim after people objected, pointing out that Hezbollah was formed after she left Lebanon, as a direct result of the Israeli invasion and occupation of 1982.[13] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel#cite_note-AL-AHRAMweeklyonlin e-12>

(She never made that statement and said that Hezbollah terrorized her family. She always say that Hezbollah was founded in 1982. She always say that the Muslims formed "Jaish Libnan Al-Arabi" Arabic Lebanese Army headed by Ahmed Al-Kahtib and those are the ones who bombed her home).

Also please change this paragraph below:

Using the name Nour Semaan, Gabriel was a news anchor for World News, an Arabic-language evening news broadcast of Middle East Television <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Television> , a Marjayoun-based station that was run by the now defunct SLA <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lebanon_Army> and funded by Israel <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel> .[16] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel#cite_note-15> [13] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel#cite_note-AL-AHRAMweeklyonlin e-12> Broadcast in Israel, Egypt <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt> , Syria <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria> , Jordan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan> and Lebanon <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon> , through her work there, Gabriel covered the Israeli withdrawal from central Lebanon, the Israeli Security Zone (occupied South Lebanon), and the Palestinian uprising in the West Bank <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank> and Gaza <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza> . The television station moved to Cyprus for a time and was later purchased by Pat Robertson <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson> .[13] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel#cite_note-AL-AHRAMweeklyonlin e-12> Gabriel moved to Israel[13] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel#cite_note-AL-AHRAMweeklyonlin e-12> before immigrating to the United States in 1989 where she founded e-12> a television production, marketing and advertising agency.[17] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel#cite_note-AboutMsGabriel-16>

To this:

Using the name Nour Semman, Gabriel was a news anchor for World News, The Arabic language evening news broadcast for Middle East Television and was based in Jerusalem Israel from 1984 till 1989. Broadcast in Israel, Egypt <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt> , Syria <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria> , Jordan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan> and Lebanon <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon> , through her work, Gabriel covered the Israeli withdrawal from central Lebanon, the Israeli Security Zone in southern Lebanon, and the Palestinian uprising in the West Bank <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank> and Gaza <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza> . The TV station was based in Nicosia Cyprus. Gabriel immigrated to the United States in 1989 where she founded a television production, marketing and advertising agency.

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brigitte_Gabriel&oldid=428461021"