Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera

Did you know ... related to opera ...

• ... that German texts by the blind Alsatian writer Gottlieb Konrad Pfeffel were the basis of two songs by Ludwig van Beethoven and Franz Schubert, and of an opera by Joseph Haydn?

• ... that opera singer Zélie de Lussan (pictured) sang 2,000 performances in the title role of Carmen?

• ... that Italian tenor Nicola Zerola began his professional operatic singing career in 1898 performing in Ruggero Leoncavallo's Pagliacci, but as a baritone?

Opera Portal DYK Archive (by topic) • Opera Project Talk DYK Archive (by date here)

Composer and Opera of the Month Proposals

Composer and Opera of the Month Proposals A simple script will automatically replace the text on the front page with the appropriate month when the time comes. Here are the next three months: [edit] Composer of the Month for December 2024 Click Here to set up December's Composer of the Month! [edit] Opera of the Month for December 2024 Click Here to set up December's Opera of the Month! Click here to show the January and February Opera and Composer of the Month preparation areas [edit] Composer of the Month for January 2025 Click Here to set up January's Composer of the Month! [edit] Opera of the Month for January 2025 Click Here to set up January's Opera of the Month! [edit] Composer of the Month for February 2025 Click Here to set up February's Composer of the Month! [edit] Opera of the Month for February 2025 Click Here to set up February's Opera of the Month!

Clean up project: Unsourced biographies of living persons
This is an ongoing project to reference any opera-related biographies of living persons which currently lack any reliable sources. WikiProject Opera/New unreferenced BLPs has a list of all such articles which is updated daily. All Wikipedia editors are encouraged to assist us. Tips on sourcing can be found here.

Clean up project: Copyright violations

Article alerts

Archives
Index

Article creation and cleanup requests

Article requests

In a now archived discussion about List of operas performed at the Wexford Festival, GuillaumeTell suggested that the following conductors/directors/designers really ought to appear in Wikipedia. I'm copying it here for editors who may be interested in creating these articles:

• Conductors – Maurizio Benini, György Fischer, Arnold Östman, Evelino Pidò
• Directors – Jean-Claude Auvray, Anthony Besch, Robert Carsen, John Cox, Peter Ebert, John Fulljames, Stefan Janski, Keith Warner
• Designers – Charles Edwards, John Stoddart, Joe Vaněk.

Per this discussion

• Peter G. Davis (critic and opera scholar of The New York Times and New York magazine)

Voceditenore (talk) 12:43, 10 March 2010 (UTC) (latest update 06:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC))

Cleanup requests

Per this discussion, the following transwikied articles from the Italian Wikipedia need considerable clean-up:

Stefano Gobatti • Luigi Bolis • Lando Bartolini • Gaetano Bardini • Basilio Basili • Lamberto Bergamini • Angelo Bendinelli • Armando Bini • Adolfo Bassi

Opera articles: Recordings - which to exclude?

As there has been no further discussion on this since early December 2010, I've archived this here. But this is a topic we may want to revisit at some point, re expanding/clarifying the current article guidelines. Voceditenore (talk) 08:37, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Lolita (opera)

I gave Lolita a start, my first attempt at an opera, German premiere tonight, synopsis s. the novel, help welcome, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:33, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I have tidied and Englished a bit. I left a number of 'red links' but unless you are planning to do articles on these people soon, I think you might consider removing the links. Best, --Smerus (talk) 15:05, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you and the other helpers! I reduced the red links (the conductor who stepped in for the GMD ...). I also removed the link Ora pro nobis which is pretty useless. The opera is going to appear on the Main page (in prep, with the Internationale Maifestspiele Wiesbaden. Can you help me with the scoring? There are some instruments and abbr. in the listing which I don't know, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:10, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for Scoring and a start of Synopsis. I added a bit and started Music. Found two interesting Schott refs on (their) contemporary opera in general, "Crime on stage" (en/de) and "Musiktheater seit 1990" (de), maybe good for other works as well, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:28, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

The opera is now in prep for DYK, thanks again to anyone involved, including enhancement of a picture. I found a good synopsis (in German), but wonder if the source it considered reliable, so I placed it under External links. The "reliable source" FAZ printed (in the General Edition, not just Rhein-Main area) the nonsense that the Wiesbaden production was the second ever (thank goodness they didn't put that online), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:47, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Should this unwritten opera also be included? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:09, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

July/August Composer(s) of the Month

There are several important August birthdays I think we should highlight. Given the number listed below, I would suggest splitting up this list into two parts, some for July and some for August. Alternatively we could just work on the whole list for both months.4meter4 (talk) 09:56, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

• Gian Carlo Menotti (turns 100): The Unicorn, the Gorgon, and the Manticore, Martin's Lie, The Most Important Man, Tamu-Tamu, The Egg (opera), Goya (opera)
• Anton Stepanovich Arensky (turns 150): Dream on the Volga, Rafael (both have been recorded)
• Ambroise Thomas (turns 200): La double échelle, Le caïd, Le songe d'une nuit d'été, Raymond (opera), Psyché (Thomas), Françoise de Rimini, La cour de Célimène
• Yevstigney Fomin (turns 250): The Novgorod Hero Boyeslayevich, The Coachmen at the Relay Station, Orpheus and Eurydice (opera), The Americans (opera), Chloris and Milo
• Jacopo Peri (turns 450): La Flora o vero Il Natal de' Fiori

Sound good?4meter4 (talk) 09:45, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes (except that I've never heard of Fomin). I'm hoping to see Thomas's La cour de Célimène at Wexford, but that won't be until October/November. --GuillaumeTell 10:13, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Given your interest, I just added that opera to the list above. I have good sources for the Menotti works, so that is where my efforts will be concentrated. 4meter4 (talk) 07:58, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

If you want to get them on the main page, you're starting very late. Your only chance would be Featured Pictures if you act fast, or DYK, if you timed it quite well. Anton Arensky and Gian Carlo Menotti are July birthdays (not August; you misspoke on that account); I'd suggest setting them for July, and the rest (August birthdays) for August. There's also a 5x expansion rule at DYK; if there's short articles on their works (or themselves), which haven't been at DYK before, you could do a 5x expansion and thus get them on DYK for those as well. But you'll need to time this very well; consider working on them in userspace until 3-5 days before, then putting them into mainspace, suggesting them on DYK, and pushing strongly for them to appear on the appropriate birthday. You may also be able to convince DYK to let you work on them in advance, and have them held back to the birthday, but that'd need arranged in advance.

Good luck! Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 17:53, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually, a third possibility is Featured sounds, if you can find freely licensed recordings. As one of the FS directors, I think I could probabaly arrange something in the scheduling. I'm not sure how likely finding something is, though. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 20:04, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Adam, the point of 'Composer of the Month', despite its name, is to create new articles on the operas by the composers. It's less about the articles on the composers themselves, although certainly improvements on the composers articles are welcome. I'm certainly not going for FA on any of these, but I may nominate for DYK. Thanks for pointing out my error. I started looking for July birthdays, but then wound up finding so many for August my brain got muddled somewhere. lol I like keeping the lists together personally because it has a wider variety of entries which will appeal to the interests of more editors in this project. Further, since this is summer, many project members go on lengthy vacations at this time and giving them 2 months on this list would be beneficial for those who are traveling/busy. As I recall some project members were gone for pretty much all of July or August in recent years. I myself will be doing intensive graduate coursework for most of July which will basically mean I'm not going to be editing hardly at all. The majority of my Menotti work is most likely going to happen in August. 4meter4 (talk) 23:36, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

I know what they are, I coded them. =) But the point of these selections are the birthdays, and the only way to officially celebrate the birthdays that I see is DYKs on the appropriate dates. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 23:53, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

The current composers being honored in the May COM is a cross selection of those with birthdays from April-June, and i believe we did something similar for another COM a few months back. My suggestion wouldn't be the first time this year that we've done something like what I'm proposing. Also, last summer we carried over July COM to August because so many of us were gone in July. Let's do what is most practical for those editors who regularly participate in contributing work to the Project's COM section. DYK/FA is a nice bonus, but it isn't the focus of this project (Also to get a Menotti or Arensky birthday DYK you would have to write the article in June anyway to get it through the review process in time, and it's better to write the August birthday articles in July for the same reason). We honor the birthdays as a project by selecting them for COM and improving coverage of their works by writing articles.4meter4 (talk) 00:57, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

There is another way of celebrating birthdays/anniversaries and that is to book an article to appear on WP Main Page on the relevant day. For example, the Shakespeare authorship question (in which I had a small hand - don't ask!) appeared on 23 April. However, articles (I think) need to be FAs, composer articles are mostly the province of the Composers Project, and there aren't many FA opera articles. --GuillaumeTell 10:39, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Booking a day is only possible for FA status articles, and is not always a guarantee (i.e. Rinaldo couldn't get its desired spot on the date of the 300th Anniversary because 2 other articles with centenials also were gunning for that day). DYK slots can also be reserved 6 weeks in advance. I certainly agree that FA is a great goal to shoot for, and I have recently been invloved with getting Rinaldo and Nixon in China to FA status. I am familiar with the FA process, and know that it is very time consuming. Getting an article ready for FA review takes time, and the review process itself can take over a month when you consider the time needed for a peer review and then having the article sit at FA review anywhere from 2-5 weeks. At this point, FA is not a realistic goal for any of these composers unless concentrated work were to be started now and a peer review was submitted by early June. But we already have COM set for this month and next. So... I think FA is out. DYK of course is still fine, but submissions would need to happen about 2 weeks prior to the requested dates (Since Menotti and Arensky were born in early July submissions would need to happen in late June. I often put together the DYK queues for the main page, so I am very familiar with review process and how long it takes). Up til now we haven't ever considered DYK/GA/FA etc. when making COM decissions. If this is something we want to do more of, I would suggest next year celebrating "March birthdays" in January and "June birthdays" in April, etc. to give people time to go through DYK/FA review.4meter4 (talk) 11:24, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

[Unindent] Perhaps if important anniversaries were noted for a year in advance, somewhere on this page? Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 20:29, 3 May 2011 (UTC)Then plans could be made as appropriate. Mentioning it two to three months in advance gives very little time to plan anything. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 20:29, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

That's a good idea. Perhaps a calendar page could be created for the project. Remember though, to get a DYK now for a date request the article can be created no earlier than 6 weeks in advance. An article older than 6 weeks will not be featured. That is why I suggested doing 2 months prior, to still allow DYK submissions. We usually set COM in advance, so those going for FA or GA could at least get all their research together before the actual COM month.4meter4 (talk) 23:01, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

That's true, but we may as well have it noted well in advance, so that if people decide to go for FA instead, they'll know. Would a simple bullet-pointed list work? Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 04:15, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Let's not put the cart in front of the horse. I'd still like more regular contributors like Voceditenore, Michael Bednarek, Gerda, GuillaumeTell, Smerus, etc. to put in their thoughts in before we start filling in the details/implementing anything. After all, these are the core editors who are involved with COM and anything we do should be about improving their editing experience in addition to improving the project. Best.4meter4 (talk) 04:56, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I think a simple bulletted list of upcoming anniversaries, Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Anniversaries, would be a useful thing to have. It can be a resource both for deciding on the XoM's and for individual editors who might like to do something on their own. We can post a link to it as a permanent first message on this page. As for letting the list and "getting on the front page" always drive the XoM's, I'm a little more wary. Quite wary in fact. In my experience, asking for small incremental improvements (e.g. sourcing, adding specific sections, stub expansion) and creation of missing articles is much more likely to lead to participation and an actual result than going for FA. Voceditenore (talk) 06:38, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree with that assessment. I do not think factoring in DYK/FA concerns into COM would best fit with the editing habits of the major contributors to this project. However, an upcoming anniversaries page might inspire some individually motivated work which could lead to FAs/DYKs.4meter4 (talk) 07:39, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I've created the anniversaries page now at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Anniversaries with a few entries to get it started. Feel free to add to it. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:50, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Singer categories

As there have been no further responses or updates since 24 October I have archived the discussion here. Feel free to raise it again, if anyone thinks it's important or has any updates. Voceditenore (talk) 10:21, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

I know its been a while since we talked about this, but I decided to be bold and nominate the cats for re-naming at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 May 23#Operatic singer cats. Please take part in this discussion. Thanks.4meter4 (talk) 18:54, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

• Update: Still open and needs further participants. Voceditenore (talk) 09:45, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

• Outcome: Now closed with the summary: "The result of the discussion was: No consensus. Separate categories may be the best next step forward."

  – Voceditenore (talk) 08:46, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Given the outcome of the discussion, does anyone have any ideas for a less controvercial solution?4meter4 (talk) 13:36, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

• As I said at CfD, the problem originally came up when quite a few biographies were being written about Bach specialists, some of whom have supposedly never sung in operas. It would help to know how many actually fit this description, because most of them have sung in at least one opera, even if it's not their primary repertoire, and the original proposal was using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. There might be a few alternatives.

  One is Category:Classical singers as a subcat of Category:Singers by genre (If there are enough of them I guess you could create subcategories under Category:Singers by genre and nationality instead. If the goal is specifically to make it to make it a sub cat of voice type rather than genre then possibly create Category: Classical foo under Category:Singers by voice type as a separate sub cat from Category:Operatic foo . There seemed to be some support for that at the CfD, but be aware that it will difficult to define the categories so as to exclude singers who are or claim to be classically trained but perform largely popera and couldn't sing the solos in the St John Passion or Beethoven's 9th to save their souls, e.g. Katherine Jenkins and Paul Potts It would probably better to discuss setting up either of these two categories with WikiProject Classical Music.

  A third option involves re-describing the various Operatic foo categories to include performances in oratorio and as soloists in symphonic choral works. They are currently all of the type "Operatic tenors are men who sing tenor roles in operas for opera companies in opera houses." This was done in April 2008 [1] following this discussion. Although that might prove controversial. Voceditenore (talk) 16:55, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Louise Bertin's La Esmeralda

As one of this month's CoMs, I was planning to create and develop Louise Bertin's La Esmeralda which kind of fits in with another WikiProject I'm involved in. But I don't want to duplicate work. Was or is anyone else planning to work on this one? Voceditenore (talk) 10:52, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

I have something to throw in but I won't find the time to do the article properly myself; I will be very glad to build on anything you do (assuming you leave any bells unrung :-}) --Smerus (talk) 20:03, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

The Genius of Valmiki?

New article, completely unreferenced, although there seems to be plenty of material about it in reliable sources. However, most of them don't call it an opera. I provisionally bannered for WPO but don't know enough about the subject to tell whether this would really come under our scope or is best left to WikiProject Theatre. Voceditenore (talk) 16:25, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Jonas Kaufmann II

I don't think this is enzyclopedic? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:26, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree, plus there is no citation for the information. --Robert.Allen (talk) 16:08, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

I reverted it 4 hours ago per "unsourced claim added to a biography of a living person" when I saw Gerda's note . I've put Kaufmann's article on my watchlist as well. Voceditenore (talk) 16:48, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Well the event was notable enough to be the main subject of this article in The New York Times, as well as articles in many other international media outlets (see [2], [3], [4], for a few examples). Google news shows that several hundred media outlets carried the story.4meter4 (talk) 04:14, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Let's return to the start: I believe it's true and supported, but is it enzyclopedic? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:54, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

As it was phrased it was silly, snide and not encyclopedic. He was one of four major stars who pulled out of the tour, two of them even later than he and Borodina did, and none of the sources state that radiation levels were lower than in Europe. His withdrawal was simply cited to "personal reasons". For all we know he may have been afraid of earthquakes not radiation. Or, he may have had completely different reasons which are... er... personal. I suppose if someone insists and it were accurately worded and sourced, it could go in. But frankly, it's a non-event bordering on trivia and I wouldn't include it, especially in an article that brief. Opera singers cancel all the time. It's one of the reasons why I strenuously try to avoid living singer biographies. They get skewed by what people see in newspapers and plunk into the article with no context. More often than not these types of editors know little about the subject and lack any kind of perspective. Or they are disgruntled fans or detractors who just want to put the boot in.

OK rant over.;-) Voceditenore (talk) 10:33, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I absolutely agree which is why I haven't attempted to restore the content. I was merely trying to point out that it wasn't made up content or a blp issue.4meter4 (talk) 11:14, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I didn't think you wanted to restore it.;-) I was referring to the IP. When "drive-by" editors are challenged to provide a reference, they rarely return with one—too much trouble. Interestingly, the IP is from Tokyo. Disgruntled fan who bought a very expensive ticket for Don Carlos months in advance? Best, Voceditenore (talk) 12:41, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Jane Rhodes

Opera News just reported the death of soprano Jane Rhodes here if anyone cares to create an article on her. Page 407 of The Grove Book of Opera Singers also has an entry on her written by Max Loppert which can be found here.4meter4 (talk) 04:05, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Die Stadt hinter dem Strom

Looking for details about Die Stadt hinter dem Strom (opera), I found a performance history of the Theater Wiesbaden, which says 1953-1955, 1957-1958 (p 427). If these figures are the years when it was played in Wiesbaden - which I would assume - it says that it was played more than once (good news) but contradicts the premiere date we had so far? Do other opera sources tell more? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:06, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Needless to say, the history contains a wealth of information, for Theater Wiesbaden and opera in general, - I don't have time though to use it now, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:03, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Gerda, is that link you gave correct? It doesn't go to a performance history of the Theater Wiesbaden. It is list of musical works and stage plays based on the Orpheus myth. Die Stadt hinter dem Strom appears in it, but it doesn't say what you appear to have found and it's only 71 pages. Voceditenore (talk) 14:12, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, it was the wrong one, trying again WI, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:23, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Giovanni Francesco di Caspará

Per this discussion, I have nominated the article for deletion as a hoax. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Giovanni Francesco di Caspará. – Voceditenore (talk) 13:26, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

English Opera Group

This article seems legit, but it has no references at all. Can anyone add a couple? All the best, -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:50, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, GT and Voce! -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:14, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Layla Claire

Just saw this article. Not sure that this young artist is notable yet. She's in the Met's young artist program but doesn't appear to have performed in any major productions yet. What do you all think?4meter4 (talk) 00:47, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

I've cleaned this up. It's basically a 3 sentence stub with links to blog reviews, virtually no information about her performances, and sourced almost entirely to official bios in their various forms. Having said that, it probably would pass an AfD for two of the awards alone, Queen Elisabeth Competition in Belgium and the Wilhelm Stenhammar International Music Competition (the rest are fluff, basically student buraries and grants). She did make her Met debut last year, albeit in the tiny role of Tebaldo in Don Carlos, but appears to have performed as a soloist with the Atlanta Symphony and the Boston Symphony. There's also much more 'real' press coverage than indicated by the article. See [5]. Voceditenore (talk) 07:22, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Kathleen Ferrier

Kathleen Ferrier is currently up for peer review at Wikipedia:Peer review/Kathleen Ferrier/archive1. User:Brianboulton has recently improved the article greatly with I believe the aim of taking it to FA. This would be wikipedia's first FA class article about an opera singer if/when it passes. Any comments at the peer review by our project members would be helpful to him in this excellent endeavor.4meter4 (talk) 23:47, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

La Grande-Duchesse de Gérolstein / Orlando finto pazzo

Someone dropped a big plot synopsis in this article that appears to be a copyvio (according to a note on the talk page). Can anyone rewrite (and preferably shorten) it in their own words; or else translate the French Wikipedia plot synopsis? Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:25, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

As a temporary measure, I've added a verbatim one from a public domain source. See Talk:La Grande-Duchesse de Gérolstein for more.

On a similar note, the other day, I stumbled across a similarly dropped in synopsis for Orlando finto pazzo. The editor had already had one article deleted as a blatant copyvio (Bill Bankes-Jones). So it raised alarm bells. I've done extensive phrase searches on Google, and nothing comes up, so I left it. But it may have come from a printed programme somewhere and probably the 2000 production directed by Bankes-Jones, the first one since 1714 [6]. Voceditenore (talk) 09:22, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Cornélie Falcon

User:Robert.Allen points out here a notable division of opinion as to Falcon's year of birth. Anyone out there got any ideas on this? --Smerus (talk) 10:54, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Grove Music Online (Philip E.J. Robinson/Benjamin Walton) gives 1814, citing B. Braud: Une reine de chant: Cornélie Falcon (Le Puy-en-Velay, 1913); C. Bouvet: Cornélie Falcon (Paris, 1927); Anon.: "Les Cancans de l’Opéra" (MS, c. 1836–8), Paris, Bibliothèque-Musée de l'Opéra. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:48, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that Grove Online ref is in the footnote, as well as Bouvet, who is probably the source of the 1814 date. I favor the 1814 date and we use it in the lead, since Bouvet clearly researched her early family history in detail. (He gives the dates of birth for her siblings and writes of baptisms, all of which can fortunately be seen in a Google Books snippet view!) I have not been able to find a listing at WorldCat or Google Books for the Braud book. I think for me this may be the first time I have not found a library listing for a book cited in a reliable source. --Robert.Allen (talk) 18:39, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Barthélémy Braud's "Une reine de chant: Cornélie Falcon" wasn't a book. It was a paper he presented at the Société scientifique et agricole de la Haute-Loire on January 10, 1913 . It was published in the Bulletin historique, scientifique, littéraire, artistique et agricole illustré publié par la Société scientifique et agricole de la Haute-Loire (quite a mouthful!). It's online at the Gallica site here. – Voceditenore (talk) 09:27, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, VdT, v. interesting: and answers the question as Braud cites the acte de naissance which gives 29 January 1814, 12.15 pm. --Smerus (talk) 12:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

By the way there is a printed edition of 'Les Cancans de l'opera' given in Grove as MS (altho' presnetly out of print): see here. It is quite a jolly romp through the era, with details of Fromental Halevy's mistresses, etc.--Smerus (talk) 12:26, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, all this certainly puts the Wikipedia article way ahead of most other sources on this singer! Congratulations editors! --Robert.Allen (talk) 19:39, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Zélie de Lussan

This lady, pictured above on 17 June, had a broad range. I would like to read that in the lead, some readers may not know Carmen, and she sang Nanetta also. In the archive I placed her as a mezzo-soprano because that is not as crowded. Right? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:49, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. ;-) Where it goes in the DYK archive doesn't really matter. I gather that reference books differ as to whether she was a soprano (with a mezzo-like timbre and extension) or a mezzo with a soprano extension (e.g. J. B. Steane in Grove). I'm wondering if the article itself should be listed in both categories as a finding aid to readers. Voceditenore (talk) 06:43, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Done, a performer of Carmen 2,000 times should also be in mezzo. No nationality cat yet for her, American in France. There are many other singers who should be in both voice cats, some singing mezzo early, such as Teresa Zylis-Gara (Octavian), some later, such as June Card. But cats are not my main interest, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:51, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Dark Sisters (opera)

This new article by a new wikipedian could use some experienced hands.4meter4 (talk) 15:18, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I've copyedited and "opera-fied" it.;-) It sounds like an interesting work, although frankly, I wish people would wait until closer to the premiere (and preferably after) before creating such articles. The composer hasn't completely finished writing it yet (as far as I can see) and the premiere cast etc. could easily change before its scheduled premiere 5 months from now. Voceditenore (talk) 06:33, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

New opera categories

Recently someone created a few new categories: operas based on literature, operas based on plays, operas based on novels, operas based on art, etc. I believe these categories are inappropriate. An opera is never based on a play or a novel, only the libretto might be. An opera composer can get his subject matter from the world of art (e.g. Mathis der Maler by Hindemith), but that does not mean that one can say that the opera is based on art. In my view opera is an independent musical form, that can not be said to be based on other forms of art. Best regards. 81.83.132.137 (talk) 16:45, 18 June 2011 (UTC)