User talk:John of Reading

My first contribution: Michael Watts, journalist

Michael Watts (journalist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Hello John, thank you for your welcoming advice. I hope that I have improved the format and content of my piece on Michael Watts, but I am having grave problems with my secondary references to prove Notability. Michael Watts is a well-known Fleet St columnist, journalist and broadcaster but, other than citing the national publications carrying his columns and features, it's difficult to find independent articles about him. He is mentioned in at least one book (I have included Forever Ambridge, the Archers history by Norman Painting, which has an anecdote about him), and the Fleet St website www.gentlemenranters.com, which also carries his contributions. Is there anything else I can do to ensure my contribution is acceptable? Neetsdunne (talk) 15:02, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. The relevant subsections of the notability guidelines seem to be WP:CREATIVE and/or WP:ENT, so the article has a long way to go. The "Forever Ambridge" anecedote would be a start, since it shows that at least one author thought it worthwhile to write about Michael Watts - but the article doesn't say anything about the incident. Can you work it into the text? Something like "While working for Radio 4 he was accidentally locked in a cupboard with Grace Archer.<ref>"Forever Ambridge" p220 by Norman Painting, Michael Joseph, 1975. (ISBN 978 0 7181144221)</ref>." (this is nonsense of course, but I don't have the book). -- John of Reading (talk) 15:25, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that - sadly, the Archers incident is not nearly as juicy! But I will add that in. And would the Ranters refs help, too? Neetsdunne (talk) 16:26, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

If he was only a contributor to that website, then the link wouldn't help to show his notability. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:28, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I've now dug up some relevant cuts from national papers referring to Michael Watts, which I have added under External Links, and I hope that these will help to establish his notability. There are more, such as listings in the Radio Times, but I don't know if these would be useful? The Ranters website is a secondary source which also refers to him. The Archers anecdote is too trivial to be of much interest in the main textNeetsdunne (talk) 17:17, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

At the moment these external links are just to the home pages of the newspapers; when I click them I see today's news. To make them at all useful, you'll need to dig out a URL for the archived news stories that you have in mind. But if these pieces are merely written by Watts then they don't help to establish any notability, I'm afraid.

Yes, the External links prob occurred to me last night: sorry about that, was trying to do everything in too much of a rush. No, the archived news items aren't by Watts, he is part of the story. For instance, the Guardian item wonders how the Sunday Express columnist Michael Watts will cope once pound notes are abolished, given his famed Crisp Oncer prize for the Worst Corny Joke. The Daily Telegraph Peterborough column cites Watts' column while complaining about postal deliveries. The Independent Wallace Arnold column also refers to the Watts column; and so on. These are just a few of a dozen or more similar references. If I can't find an URL for those stories, how then can I establish notability? Is it possible to upload the relevant cuttings? Neetsdunne (talk) 11:14, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

It's fine to refer to sources even if you don't have a URL handy, as long as you give enough detail so that a hypothetical reader could, in theory, find a copy of the newspaper and check it for themselves. You need to work these into the text and use them as references. The {{cite news}} template can be used to format these nicely. Something like:

...and Watt's items in this column were frequently commented upon by other columnists<ref>{{cite news|work=The Sunday Express|title=Pound coins will cause trouble for Watts|date=1985-04-29|author=Joe Bloggs}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|work=Daily Telegraph|title=Whatever the title was|date=1986-12-30|author=Peterborough}}</ref>

-- John of Reading (talk) 11:26, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much, John! You are so helpful! Neetsdunne (talk) 16:21, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Have rewritten the Watts piece, and following your advice, hope that I have established notability to Wiki's satisfaction. Actually, as far as "notability" is concerned, appearance in the Sunday Express in its "glory days" would alone - apart from Watts's column in other publications - produce tremendous "notability". Every week for decades, in a publication whose sales peaked at over 5million - a big proportion of them upmarket (more than, say, the Sunday Times and the Observer combined) - meant a weekly readership of around 12million. Something TV producers can only dream of. My next 'problem' is uploading a picture of Watts. I have one that was taken by a friend at a social gathering and which Michael Watts has approved, and so it is copyright-free. Just not quite sure how to add it to the contribution.Neetsdunne (talk) 11:56, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

There's still very little evidence in the article that other people have thought it worthwhile to write about Watts, which is what's needed to meet Wikipedia's notability requirement. Reference 9 is a start. The other references only expand the text a little, giving the years.

You'll see that I've added a "by whom?" tag to one sentence. Presumably you have read that opinion somewhere. Can you dig out a proper source for it?

Alas, that picture is not copyright-free. I think the copyright will be owned by the friend who took the picture. To use it here, the simplest route would be for that friend to upload the picture, stating the source to be 'own work'; if you upload it, you will have to state who owns the copyright and then that person will have to send in an email. That's described at WP:DCM. It would be better to get the notability sorted out first. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:40, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I now have 13 (lucky for some!) secondary sources to prove notability, inserted as references. These include national newspapers and journals, specialist publications, trade journals and the Archers 'biography' by Norman Painting. All these mention Michael Watts in relation to his Sunday Express column or his broadcasts. And in External Links, the website Gentleman Ranters also carries objective references to him. I have also tidied up the layout of the contribution, so that it now follows the Wiki house style. Is there any chance of getting any of the caveats dropped from the intro? (She asks hopefully...) 86.139.145.35 (talk) 15:12, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the {{Wikify}} notice. The article is much improved from when the tag was added; you've done a lot yourself, and by posting at Wikipedia:New contributors' help page/questions you attracted the attention of several experienced editors who have joined in. Most biographical articles have an infobox of some kind, but that's not essential; you could have a look at {{Infobox journalist}}.

The "verification" notice is still very relevant. Many facts in the article have no source: schooling, radio work, and those consumer awards. How is a reader to check those facts? (And how do you know them?)

The "notability" notice is still relevant, I think. Reference 5 and 10-19 are good, but they seem to show only that the column might be notable. References 1-4, 6-9 seem only to be adding detail to the text in the article; they don't tell a reader how to verify what's in the article. What's lacking, and may not exist, is anyone writing about Watts himself. If any of references 5 and 10-19 are about Watts himself and not his column, then it would be worth re-arranging the text to make this clear.

When I search at www.gentlemenranters.com I only see pieces that are by him, not about him. If you have particular pages in mind, you should cite them (Have you come across {{cite web}} yet?).

Hope this helps! -- John of Reading (talk) 16:11, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello John - just added an infobox, though I am not sure why some of the entries (such as 'nickname' and 'birthdate/age') don't seem to appear in the final box. I now have a picture, taken by myself with Watts' permission, to upload, though I am still working out how to do this! I have added some more refs, including one for the Consumer Press Awards. I have tried to answer most of your points re.sources, though I am not sure how to 'prove' schooling. Certainly the information is there on the book jacket for 'I Say, I Say', and it will also be in the school's archives. I can verify much of the info personally, as I know Watts professionally and socially. Neetsdunne (talk) 16:27, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I've moved and tidied the infobox for you - templates are tricky. For the schooling, a book jacket is better than nothing, so I would add that in. For the picture upload, go to Commons:Upload and choose "Entirely my own work"; the form there may be a bit daunting, but get back to me here if you need help. It will be filled in with various defaults that you can leave alone. You will need to fill in the destination file name, date and description, and choose one of the "Licensing" options - one is marked "Recommended". -- John of Reading (talk) 16:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Many, many thanks, John, for all your help on this. As you see, the caveats have all been removed, and I have managed to add the pic. Couldn't have done it without you. You are a Star! Neetsdunne (talk) 11:39, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Would I be justified in moving this?

National Maritime Academy to "National Maritime Academy (India)" --Greenmaven (talk) 04:08, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

I've added a hatnote. I think that will do until/unless someone finds another institution with exactly the same name. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:06, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Shock Therapy (band)

Well, I can't seem to understand why Shock Therapy (band) got deleted, see also http://www.discogs.com/artist/Shock+Therapy I beg to differ about "non-notable"!! Founded in 1982, hailing from Detroit, MI, 15 albums, very popular and appreciated in the goth scene, and people say "non notable"? Also see Bob Stubbs and read this excerpt: "...also cited as a major influence for Kurt Cobain in Kurt's early Seattle music scene days. In 1994 Stubbs joined The Glass Heroes on drums again with Keith Jackson of the band Shock Therapy on guitar and vocals. The Glass Heroes released 7 songs on a compilation for distribution in Europe only..." Fair enough: maybe the article from back5 years ago was badly written, but the band is VERY FAR from "non-notable"! -signed- -andy 217.50.42.186 (talk) 00:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

You will need to find sources to show that the band passes one or more of the criteria at WP:BAND. If more people have written about the band since the original article was deleted in 2006, it could well be that the band is notable in the Wikipedia sense now, even though it perhaps wasn't in 2006. Anyway, I see that you've posted at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion, so someone there may be able to dig out a copy of the old article for you to improve. (I can't do this because I'm not an admin). -- John of Reading (talk) 09:27, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Kenya institute of media and technology

Hi John I am having a mild difference of opinion with another editor on the above talk page. Could you please advise me or join the discussion please? --Greenmaven (talk) 11:22, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

It's doomed, I think. Before you could start improving it, you'd have to delete paragraphs 1, 3 and 4 as copyright violations. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:28, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	Thank you for being the first editor to contact me when I was a newbie, and for subsequent assistance. Greenmaven (talk) 19:00, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! -- John of Reading (talk) 19:03, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Kool Eggs

Since an IP removed the speedy template without explanation, you could've just re-added it. No need for MFD. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 19:47, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't quite see that at Wikipedia:Deletion policy and wanted to play safe. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:08, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

It's a common sense thing. That removal of a speedy was obviously vandalism. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 21:11, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

For helping out with editing an article where the formatting of a table was too daunting for me as a newbie. You have done a good job of it, and very promptly. I have since added a photo, mucked up the formatting by mising out a "|", then corrected it and learned a bit in the process! Curlymop (talk) 17:55, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Glad to have helped! -- John of Reading (talk) 21:30, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Hello John

i was back today after a long absenc to upload some photos to the wiki site foad rafii but i noticed some strange page appeared after i searched foad rafii. there is a page exactly like wikipedia but all the words containg L shows with word L changed to w. do you have any idea what that could possibly be?pishoo (talk) 18:25, 5 July 2011 (UTC)pishoo

No, that's a new one on me. Some thoughts:

• Were you definitely at Wikipedia and not at some look-alike site? Check the URL. Wikipedia is such a popular site that hackers/opportunists have set up misleading sites with domains such as en.wikipdia.org to catch people who can't spell.
• Are you still having the problem? Try a copy+paste of the bad text into Word, or similar, and then apply a new font to it - is it an "L" that looks like a "w" (a font problem), or is it really a "w" (a browser malware problem). Try a reboot. Try it from a different computer (malware on the first computer?).

...but really I have no idea. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:53, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

John, this is the link to that site: http://wikien4.appspot.com/wiki/Foad_Rafii it looks exactly like foad rafii wikipedia page but with a wierd spelling!pishoo (talk) 21:06, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

What a strange site! It calls itself the "Elmer Fudd Wikipedia", referring to a cartoon character Elmer Fudd. Bizarre. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:14, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

what do you suggest john? should i go on my talk page and cry for HELP? can wikipedian do anything about it?pishoo (talk) 23:00, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is the "free encyclopedia", and its content is available for re-use even in a modified form. But the site is running a "live mirror", so I've reported it at m:Live mirrors. They are also misusing the Wikipedia and Wikimedia logos; I'll have a think about where to post about that. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:50, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot John!!!!!!16:59, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Good morning John! i found this: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mirror_filter when i searched farther through the link you suggested about live mirroring to undo the mirroring but i could not follow through ( do not understand the first part). ... I soooo know this is too much to ask BUT please could you help me with that, or suggest some other source of help/ support for this type of problems? i will ask for help on my talk page too...see what happens. pishoo (talk) 17:51, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

That looks complicated! And it is something that you have to install on your computer, to stop Wikipedia mirrors showing up when you do a Google search. It won't influence Google's behaviour when other people search for him. Presumably you know how to get to the real Foad Rafii article, so what's the point? -- John of Reading (talk) 18:00, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh i see!!! i thought it will totally stop that mirror site to be seen when other people are also looking for this wiki page or this person! thank you again for your prompt help john!pishoo (talk) 18:21, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

look at this john! http://www.wikien4.appspot.com/wiki/Jimmy_Wales pishoo (talk) 17:00, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Daft! I wonder how long that site will stay up? The pages seem to have slots for advertising, but it hasn't attracted any yet. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:02, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Back to uploading photos

me again John, i still am not very clear about permissions on photos and how it really works. so what i am going to do is to start uploading those photos that Mr. Rafii took himself. is there any format for the author permission that i can ask him to hand me so i can pass it to wiki/ ah i am confused..............  :( pishoo (talk) 18:05, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

My earlier advice on this is now at User talk:John of Reading/Archive 3#Foad Rafii pictures. I'm not sure that I can give you fully correct advice on this, so I think you should ask at Media copyright questions. Explain there who took the pictures and who you think holds the copyright in them. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:02, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I see that you've uploaded File:Spring Project-Austin-Texas-2010-Rafii.JPG. Let's see how good my advice was by waiting to see what happens to that first picture! You need to get the copyright holder (Mr Rafii?) to send the email. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:26, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I shall do that john! Thank you!!!pishoo (talk) 21:55, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

John, do you have the address to where he should send the permission? (what a sentence!-today is my strange Engish day ;) pishoo (talk) 18:54, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

you were always there when i needed your help. how amazing is that? ...... without you i could not make it john. .........please accept my deepest purrrr.....

pishoo (talk) 18:31, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Meow! -- John of Reading (talk) 18:57, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

ditto meowww... ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mabellapishoo (talk • contribs) 21:07, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

john, i do not have a picture of the key to Vancouver City but consider/ imagine it uploaded here and accept my invitation. i will be honord to be your host.pishoo (talk) 18:27, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

A smile for you

	Smile
	It makes me smile to see someone so civil with new editors. I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 18:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your encouragement. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

A brownie for you!

Great job at the Help desk!!! Now that I've buttered you up: I'm guessing you might see my post at the Talk page of the Help desk, which is really just a link to VPM, but as you are one of the stalwarts at Help, I wanted to alert you to it. In short, I'm having trouble getting editors to review Feedback requests, so the suggestion is to bring the mountain to Mohammed. I was initially opposed, but I'm warming tot he idea. Do you think we could make it work? SPhilbrickT 19:28, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the brownie, it was delicious!

Personally I would have trouble with feedback requests turning up the HD. HD requests about articles tend to be about a single issue ("I've scrambled the table in article XYZ", "What is the template that does ABC?", "Why was I reverted?"). Feedback requests tend to be open-ended ("Please review my article XYZ"). I've never tried answering feedback requests; nor have I tried NPP. I would need some kind of mentoring/training before I could confidently tackle those.

I tend to have the HD to myself from UTC 9:00 to 12:00, so by the time the Americans wake up there could be a backlog of feedback requests.

I'll keep thinking, though. I'm off to bed now. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:45, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I understand. That's why I posted to you, as you might be more affected than others. I'm mulling over trying it as a short-term experiment, but will think on it a bit more before proposing that formally.--SPhilbrickT 01:55, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Beauty pageant templates

You asked to continue the discussion here. {{Miss Universe Organization titleholders}}, {{Big Four Pageants titleholders}}, {{Miss Earth titleholders}}, {{Miss World Continental Queen of Beauty Titleholders}} are the only templates that I will be taking the time to convert correctly. It seems prevelent in the beauty pageant project for navboxes to be done in the confusing way they have been done in the past. There are numerous additional templates being done the wrong way, and I can only pick and choose a few that I will take the time to correct. As I edit, I can keep track of others, but I don't know if my list will be complete. {{Vanbros titleholders}} and {{Greenwood Productions titleholders}} are two that come to mind. I will drop others here as I run across them.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:45, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I've added the "below" parameter to the last two. If you look at the diff, you'll see that this is straightforward. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:13, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Here are some more: {{Carousel Production Inc. titleholders}} {{Miss Philippines-Earth titleholders}} {{Miss Chile Titleholders}}--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:32, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Also {{Big Four Pageants titleholders 2010}} is an example of problems with the v/d/e buttons. Plus each Miss XXX link is going off somewhere unusual.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:32, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

OK. I've edited those three so that they accept "name" and "below"; and I've edited {{Big Four Pageants titleholders}} again so that it accepts "name" as well as "below". The "Miss XXX" links are just wikilinks that you'll find hiding inside {{Big Four Pageants titleholders}}, so I hope you can see how to fix those. I'll be off to bed soon... -- John of Reading (talk) 20:53, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Here's another {{Miss Dominican Republic Organization titleholders}}.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 02:42, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Done. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:01, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I have only created the recent years for the first four requested above. I am done on this project. I left notes at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Beauty Pageants and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lists--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:08, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Good Help with Wikipedia Nuclear Notations - Thanks

Thanks for your suggestion to try a different browser to resolve the text formating issue of alignment of characters on isotope symbols. You saved me beaucoup frustration! My FireFox 2.0 was rendering the Nuclear Notations (and other) wiki pages with the hard-to-read offset formating but when I switched to IE 6.0 everything displayed just fine.

I've now noticed that some authors have gotten around this browser disparate display issue of isotopes and nuclear reactions on Wikipedia by using the math template (i. e. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium) so that the display is the same in IE and Firefox.

Thanks so much again for the help with my first editing efforts!

Delphwhite

Delphwhite (talk) 11:07, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

OK. Glad to have helped! -- John of Reading (talk) 14:06, 14 July 2011 (UTC)