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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 190.101.43.197 (talk) at 01:08, 25 July 2011. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Untitled

Didn't he have a first marriage before Cecilia Amenabar? I remember reading about that in the press during the 80's.--200.14.108.1 (talk) 15:43, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong news

Isn't it worth it to include the event of yesterday where some Latin American news papers reported falsely the dead of Gustavo? Even Wikipedia was edited by someone due to the news. There was a lot of confusion due to these reports. I believe it should be included in the main article. Thanks! Tico! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.108.234.191 (talk) 15:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gustavo has been killed two or three time in the past, I do not believe that is proper to add this information each time. TbhotchTalk C. 17:07, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox / Notable Instruments

An ANONYMOUS user insists on deleting the infobox for "Notable instruments", and he says he has reason for a rule of wikipedia. Well if you can not use that part of the infobox, then it is not used on all wikipedia articles. There are thousands of examples in wikipedia on the use of this, James Hetfield, Dave Grohl, Kurt Cobain, Noel Gallagher, Lenny Kravitz .......... is impossible to name them all. When they do not use this part of the infobox, in this article should not be used. But since not, I consider it vandalism. Peter Hofer (talk) 16:24, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

quote: This field is only relevant for individuals. Particularly noteworthy models or custom musical instruments with which the artist is strongly associated (e.g. Jimi Hendrix's Fender Stratocaster and Gibson Flying V guitars or Tori Amos's Bösendorfer piano). Separate multiple entries with commas. Template:Infobox_musical_artist#Notable_instruments.

Where does it say you can not put the notable instruments in the article? Peter Hofer (talk) 04:08, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article is trying to use the space as a complete equipment list for this relatively unknown person. Template:Infobox_musical_artist#Notable_instruments dictates that the field is only to be used for specific reason. And this musician is not famous for using any of the hardware that his fans are trying to list. You cannot lie in an edit summary by trying to claim a perfectly valid edit that makes the box conform to Template:Infobox_musical_artist#Notable_instruments is not vandalism. Read WP:VANDAL to figure out what that really means. Continual lying in the edit summary by claimimg a previous edit is vandalism when it isn't will result in your new account being blocked just like the last one. 24.87.89.228 (talk) 04:42, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I recommend you get some outside input by posting a link to this discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musicians/Infobox. --A. B. (talk • contribs) 01:06, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not a stranger, on the contrary, it can easily be considered one of the two most important musicians of Latin rock. First you must learn and then say, say it is unknown is almost an insult. But it is certainly not well known in USA and English-speaking public. we will Be objective. If someone is important in one place, you can not downplay elsewhere. That is, he is not known in USA, does not mean it's not important. The main purpose of wikipedia is to inform, well informed, and the truth is that Cerati is very important in Latin America. Same with his former co-Soda Stereo Charly Alberti and Zeta Bosio. Gustavo, Zeta and Charly, in addition to being important in themselves, were part of Soda Stereo, the most influential rock band of Latin rock.

As for what concerns the instruments, which are (or were) appointed are the characteristic instruments of the musician and the most used. The PRS for example, is his characteristic guitar and he has helped popularize it in latin america. The aim of putting instruments instruments notable characteristic is to name the musician, and in wikipedia the vast majority of musicians have this section, including some musicians that are not well known or not very important.

I know that is not vandalism which has made the anonymous user. What happens is that he insist on removing something that I think should not be removed, I think it's kind of vandalism, although not very serious. Peter Hofer (talk) 02:19, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The question that you have to ask yourself is which of the instruments that you want to list is he actually known for? Which is backed up by non-trivial mentions in reliable sources independent of the artist? I doubt anyone would argue with one instrument in the infobox but it can't be based one editor's opinion. —J04n(talk page) 02:31, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I want you to answer just these questions: why Cerati can not use the "notable instruments"? Why? The other musicians can, why not Cerati? why Cerati is different from other musicians? He is famous and important, not in USA but is known and important. I do not understand. Please explain it to me. If there are many musical instruments in the article, you say it, and i put less. Are the guitars that he uses and that characterize it, is because it uses several different guitars. In most of the songs using the PRS (This guitar he has held since they went on sale the PRS, which has been very important throughout his career), but in other songs uses the telecaster or the other guitars.Peter Hofer (talk) 04:08, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But the guitar model itself is not anymore famous because he uses it. It wouldnt matter what guitar he uses it would just be a guitar. It isnt like Jimi Hendrix and the Stratocaster or James Hetfield and an Explorer or Lonnie Mack and the Flying V. Those guitars sell more because those guitarists made them more famous. No one buys a guitar model because Cerati uses it. And none of his individual guitars are famous for being historically significant like Jimmy Page's Dragon Telecaster or Kurt Cobain's Jagstang. He plays guitar. But none of the guitars he plays are notable and the models themselves are not made more significant because he plays them. Which is the rule of the notable instrument part of the infobox template. 24.87.89.228 (talk) 06:59, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
My thoughts on this. Has anyone really researched the actual guitars that he has used to see how they are set up - the pickups, strings, finish, neck shape, rarity of the model and finish, etc.? There is one Featured Article that I know of that lists a Gibson SG, Fender Stratocaster, and Gibson Les Paul as Notable instruments in the infobox. One might think that none of those should be listed there, because the way they are described only provides the common name for the guitar. If one knows better, all of those guitars were customized by the Feature Article subject's guitar technician and deserve being noted in the infobox. The same issue could apply here. The PRS Custom is the first model Paul Reed Smith produced, and it goes back to 1985. If Gustavo Cerati started using that model back in the 80s, it may qualify as being associated with him. If that qualifies, which in his case it might, a photo of him with the PRS Custom would be worth trying to obtain for the page. Doc2234 (talk) 13:49, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
24.87.89.228: this is not a good argument. It has no relation. First: The "notable instruments" are to show the characteristic musical instruments or musical instruments that are most used by the musician. It is not to show that some popular musical instrument, or if people buy more musical instruments. This is just referring to her use of musician to their instruments. he popularized this musical instruments in Latin America, but it does not matter in this case. Second, the same James Hetfield, the infobox has several guitars in addition to the explorer and not all guitars are characteristics. Here I have some examples of guitarists who do not think they use popularized the guitars (but again, this is of no importance here, because the "notable instruments" are not included because the musicians popularize): Marcus Adoro, Paul Dean, Brian Molko. Third: You do not talk so authoritative, because you are not an administrator, and you are not registered. Fourth: I think if Gustavo Cerati can not use this section, some musicians also should not use this section. But this should be resolved by an administrator, who should make a decision based on the rules.Peter Hofer (talk) 15:29, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Peter forget it, you will not get convince them. I also think you're right, but i don't think that you will get convince them. this guy 24.87 should be the same 198.164.219.128 that was bothering me before, suddenly took to attack Cerati. btw, I fix a small error in your previous comment. JGabriel ar (talk) 01:09, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Why are you talking to yourself? You admitted on another user's talkpage that you recently registered under the name Peter Hofer. And now here you are talking to yourself? This does not constitute a consensus. It is a policy violation as it tries to look like a cabal when it it 1 person talking as 2. 24.87.89.228 (talk) 02:38, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gustavo Cerati and his band Soda Stereo are well known in spanish rock world. That isn't in dispute. Alakasam (talk) 20:58, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"No one buys a guitar model because Cerati uses it." Have you any cite for saying that? What do you really know about Cerati? Alakasam (talk) 21:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just in google.com searching for Cerati returns 5.000.000 results. What you need is to read: Template:WTF Alakasam (talk) 21:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It doesnt matter what his level of localized notability is. His equipment choices still fail the rules as set out by WP:MUSICIAN for claiming notabile instruments. He owns guitars. He doesn't own any notable guitars. 24.87.89.228 (talk) 11:28, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How do you know that? You don't know Cerati. JGabriel ar (talk) 12:52, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Who decide the notabiliy of a guitar or a person, you? Tbh®tchTalk © Happy Holidays 19:27, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, Who decides who is notable or not? you "24.87"? JGabriel ar (talk) 22:14, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is a topic that has been discussed very thoroughly by both WP:MUSICIAN and WP:GUITARISTS. They are the projects who created the field and they created it for specific reasons. All which can be found in their archived talk pages. The most important element being that an entry had to be notable and, if challenged, then proper citations had to be found. Not to prove use. That is not debated. But to prove notability. It was a space that was never intended to be used as a full equipment list, as it was being used here. All of these elements can be challenged. Just because you are a fan does not make the persons guitar or guitars notable. He does not qualify as a notable player on any of the lists corresponding to notable guitar use. And that is because no reference to support notability was ever produced. 156.34.142.110 (talk) 04:08, 2 December 2010 (UTC) Wiki libs (talk) 04:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not a fan of Cerati, nor Soda Stereo, could you tell again which or who determinates the notability of someone or something? Tbh®tchTalk © Happy Holidays 04:34, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Just because you are from Canada, or Oregon ar wherever your next IP will locate you, does not means that the subject is not notable. Indeed, if he were not notable his article would be deleted per WP:A7. Tbh®tchTalk © Happy Holidays 04:40, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"localized notability" it isn't localized. He and his former band Soda Stero were super well known in all latin america and spain, it is spanish rock world. In any case I understand that the field in the infobox is only for instruments that become notable because he played it. I can understand that . What I'll never accept is your position based in personal attacks. Alakasam (talk) 01:52, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This person might be extremely notable. But their guitars aren't. The field is for an instrument (or 2) who's sales were impacted by the subject's use. Or if their guitar(s) itself was sold for much money in an auction. Or if they were notable enough that the guitar maker made a modification to the instrument based on their recommendation. Or if the maker made a replica of their guitar or sometimes (not always) a signature model to sell to the general public. That is what the field is to be used for. It is very clear in the guideline that this is what the field is for. It is not to be used for any other reason. Especially in the way it ws being used for this article. Hopefully that will be helpful to all in understanding how to correctly use the infobox template. 24.87.89.228 (talk) 02:38, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I do not know if you are misunderstanding that field, because it states that "models or custom musical instruments with which the artist is strongly associated", not if the instruments became notables a cause of the artist. Tbh®tchTalk © Happy Holidays 03:09, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Who can understand this? does this rule only applies to this artist?, and to the others not?. I have another example: Juanes, a Latin pop artist. Is known, but never more so than Cerati. Besides, Juanes don't play rock music. Their influence is much smaller than in lationamerica compared with Cerati (not comparable). And yet Juanes has this section in its infobox. Do not know why you argue so much, just because one anonymous user said he was not good. You believe that because Juanes uses a Stratocaster guitar, someone buy this guitar?. This is unfair and meaningless. Tbhotch: Yes. That's what I'm saying from the beginning, the rule was misinterpreted. "ip": Your arguments are not related to this and even if it is, are not real. You understand of one time, the people of Latin America buy those guitars because he uses. For example, he and Carlos Santana have done much to popularize the PRS in Latin America. In fact, in latinonoamerica, Cerati is more influential than Santana, Santana is more famous in USA. Also he has given the guitar to sell and help a charity. You do not be ignorant. I'm not saying this because you do not know Cerati, I say this because for comment on this issue, you must know about you're talking. It is clear that if he famous and notable (and he is), obviously people will also know and want to have their musical instruments. The Cerati's PRS is almost an emblem of Latin rock. JGabriel ar (talk) 03:53, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, everything is solved. According to the template rules of the "24.87pedia", no artist may use the "notable instruments". JGabriel ar (talk) 03:07, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No Carlos Santana is notable as a PRS players because he has his own model designed by him. He is also a notable Yamaha SGB player as well. Some consider his Gibson SG use notable. But in reality he was just another player of that model. Juanes has no notable guitars. He might be a notable person. But his guitars certainly aren't. Hopefully that is helpful. 24.87.89.228 (talk) 03:43, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And again, you are misunderstanding the template, so please stop with this. Tbh®tchTalk © Happy Holidays 03:44, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

RFC

Should the |notable_instruments= field. of the main infobox tempate (e.g), be used in this article or not?. According to the template itself the instruments may be added if "models or custom musical instruments with which the artist is strongly associated". For further information of why this RFC, see the section above. Tbh®tchTalk © Happy Holidays 04:21, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The guidelines for thetemplate seem to be straight forward. A musician either needs to own a notable instrument. Or they have done something that has made the instrument that they play notable in some way. And that does not appear to be the case with this entry. 209.226.201.250 (talk) 20:48, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The guitars have now been added in a section of its own. This should be enough to satisfy all. It is a better place for that sort of information as they do not comply with the guide of the musician's information template. 202.174.176.249 (talk) 03:37, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I do not know if I can say here, if I can not, sorry. So I think it would be correct to include in this section only the PRS, because it is his guitar feature, only this guitar. JGabriel ar (talk) 20:24, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
How is his Paul Reed Smith guitar any more notable than anyone else's Paul Reed Smith. He is not listed as a PRS artist on the PRS official website. And a word search on the Paul Reed Smith website for his name shows zero hits. Apparently PRS Guitars have never heard of this artist or simply just don't see any reason to acknowledge that he bought one of their guitars from a store that sells musical instruments. What specifically makes his guitar notable enough to list it as a notable instrument when the manufacturer does not even recognize him? 202.174.176.249 (talk) 03:10, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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