Talk:Fluorine

New content

(Just discussion, not criticism)

1. I like the new content (I'm in favor of covering a lot), but just have a science question. Is part of the reason for highest oxidation with oxygen because oxidation state is a formality? And the actual charge transfer may not match oxidation number?

Thanks! But I don't seem to understand the question...do you mean there's only +2 in OF2?--R8R Gtrs (talk) 15:12, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

2. The new picture looks like electrons are being donated from fluorine to boron.

It's almost the same an oxygen atom donates an electron to its carbon buddy in CO. The only difference is that in CO, it's a full transfer, and in BF3 they're moving to boron, but are still fluorine's; at least the way I understand it.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 15:12, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Question About the Physical Properties Section

“ Though sometimes cited as yellow-green, the gas is a very pale yellow, visible only in long tubes.[5] ”

I am not sure what this sentence is trying to say (maybe that you can only observe the color in concentrated fluorine gas kept in long glass tubes?). can someone more experienced explain it more clearly? Thanks! Quae legit (talk) 19:16, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, you can only observe the color in concentrated fluorine gas kept in long glass tubes :) For a better understanding, I'll give another, a more common example: water. Water seems to have no color when you look at a glass of water. But actually, it IS blue. Look at the ocean (ocean is deep, and when you look on the water, you see a layer of water kilometers (miles) thick compared to centimeters (inches) of your glass. Of course, color of water in ocean is also affected by sky's color, and water seems greenish when weed's growing up on the its bottom, but the water is still very weak blue. Fluorine is similar.

________ 
|      |
|      |
|      |
|      |
|      |
| F2   |
|      |
|      |
|      |
|      |
|      |
|      |   ← Looking from here, you don't see the color
|  F2  |
|      |
|      |
|      |
|      |
|    F2|
|      |
|      |
|F2    |
_______

   ↑
Look from here and you may see the color.

Don't hesitate to ask other questions :) --R8R Gtrs (talk) 13:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification! I'll update the section to match your explanation. Quae legit (talk) 21:32, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

General Questions!

1. "water is not an inert solvent for hydrogen fluoride." (from Section "Inorganic Acids): What does this mean? If whoever wrote this meant that HF dissociates in water (HF + H20 -> F- + H30) then isn't that true of all (or most?) acids?

I don't think so. I mean, HF does dissolve this way, but that not what's meant. If you dissolve HF, HCl, HBr and HI is something else (say, organics), then HF is the strongest. But in aqueous solutions, water decreases HF's acidity (partially due to HF---HOH hydrogen bonds, see this for a long and more correct explanation)--R8R Gtrs (talk) 15:12, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

2. "Unlike uranium hexafluoride, sulfur hexafluoride [...] does not necessarily require fluorine to be produced,but most often, it is produced in reaction between sulfur and fluorine" (from Section: Uses of fluorine gas): Once again, what is this trying to say? it seems to contradict itself.

SF₆ may be produced w/o F₂ gas (which is hard to handle) in some other way, but in the industry, S+3F₂→SF₆ reaction is used. Hope these help--R8R Gtrs (talk) 15:12, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

R8R--Do you know what either of these quotes are trying to say? Thanks!Quae legit (talk) 01:41, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, those are both very helpful answers! I will update these sections to reflect your answers! Quae legit (talk) 05:26, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

3. "Fluorine compounds are highly amenable to nuclear magnetic resonance, because fluorine-19 has a nuclear spin of ½, a high nuclear magnetic moment, and a high magnetogyric ratio, which allows it to make measurements quickly, comparable with similar effect based on hydrogen-1." (from Section: uses of isotopes): I know basically nothing about NMR. Can you explain what the comparison between hydrogen-1 and fluorine-19 is? (Or, could you update this section to explain the comparison more clearly. I might mess it up). Thanks! Quae legit (talk) 22:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I remember to have read that F-19 is almost as useful as H-1, with 83% of its efficiency. Is it what you want to know?--R8R Gtrs (talk) 12:42, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Gifblaar.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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was kept.--Stone (talk) 11:28, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

On to chlorine?

This article is now very nicely done-- one of the better element articles. As such, it now makes the article on chlorine (never up to par anyway) look pretty scrappy by comparison. Even the bromine article is better than the one on chlorine! Yet chlorine as chloride is necessary for all life and is a macromineral in the diet, with a far more important presense on Earth than fluorine, and a chemistry just as interesting. Might I suggest that those of you who have worked on fluorine and are looking for new worlds to conquer, take a look at the neglected chlorine article? It's my own next target as well. SBHarris 23:15, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

I have done a lot for the article, reconstructing it since March prior to the FAC2. I have also done a lot between FAC2 and FAC3, but a great credit should be given to the User:TCO, who has, however, retired. For this reason, I feel I should reply. If you want it— OK, after this article gets featured. What I'm saying is, OK if the points I'll be unable to fix will be helped.

I just need this featured. Besides, comments on, still, this article would be useful at FAC3 page.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 16:21, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Oxidation comparison

I love oxygen (love it even more than F). But, I think the comparison on oxidation is confusing. What I would do is

1. make a new page and save your comparison stuff over there.

2. Reorg this article so it is more about the F, not the O.

A. Perhaps save 1-2 sourced sentence about the comparison, and put that in the highest section of "Inorganic compounds". Something like this (not perfect).

"Fluorine forms a wide variety of inorganic compounds. In some cases the compounds are similar to other halides. In others, they are more like oxides. Because F2 is a stronger oxidizing agent than O2, many difficult to reduce elements form compounds with F, but not O. However, because oxide anion, O-2, has twice the formal charge of fluorine anion, F-, some of the highest oxidation states (7, 8, etc.) are more common in oxides than fluorides. (See "comparison of fluorine and oxygen oxidation states for more information.)"

->note, this also gives the reader a little bit of an overview for the inorganic stuff to come in the subsections.

B. Re-org all the content from the comparison section BACK into the metal halides, noble gas, etc. Ditch most or all of the specific oxygen examples, but keep the info on the example fluorides.

3. figure out a little more why and so what (and put it in that OTHER page). Like I still wonder about "oxidation state" versus negative charge on the atom. Is one reason why oxygen gives higher oxidation states, just related to bookkeeping (after all peroxides are well known, or for that matter is the oxygen really completely double the negative charge of the F? Or perhaps it is related to space-filling? You just can't fit twice as many F's around a metal atom?