User talk:Varnent

Varnent Userpage Back to the home base. (Icon by Fabián Alexis) Talk Questions? Comments? Advice? Talk to me. (Icon by Fabián Alexis) Contributions Also see my other accounts, listed on my user page. (Icon by Fabián Alexis) Email Drop me a note. (Icon by Fabián Alexis) Archives Archives of information related to my account. (Icon by Fabián Alexis) WikiLove Thank you! (Icon by Fabián Alexis) Pages Articles and templates I have created, expanded or hope to create or expand. (Icon by Fabián Alexis) Media Images and videos I have contributed to Wikimedia Commons. (Icon by Fabián Alexis) COI Conflicts of interest. (Icon by Fabián Alexis) Edit count Where it stops, nobody knows. (Icon by Fabián Alexis)

Welcome to Varnent's talk page on Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit

Note:

Posting notes: For the sake of keeping discussions together, unless you request otherwise, I will reply to your posts here and will also watch pages where I have posted myself and expect replies there. However, it maybe helpful to leave me a {{talkback}} template telling me you have replied. Keep content disputes off here. They belong to relevant articles' talk pages. Don't revert edits to this talk page, unless they're obvious vandalism (like blanking/malicious editing of other comments, etc). I'll deal with stupid/hate/spam messages myself. Please sign and date your entries by inserting ~~~~ at the end or by clicking the icon (or in monobook theme) in the edit toolbar. And don't forget, be polite, assume good faith, avoid personal attacks, and be welcoming Thank you! --Varnent

Hello from OutHistory and other wiki spaces.

Hello - I am a WikiWalker of many years. Glad that you are interested in OutHistory - I had seen it for many years and then a friend of mine got on the board and I have been working with them on the wiki. Look forward to building things with you! Best, MarkDilley (main wiki home: http://MarkDilley.org)

Hey Mark! It's good to see you on another wiki outside WikiIndex - you truly are a WikiWalker!  :) I've actually been thinking more about OutHistory on WikiQueer and think engaging them in transclusion of content from their Wiki to WikiQueer would make the most sense. Now I just need to engage them officially and see if we can get that partnership developed. In a perfect world I'd love to just hand the whole History section of WikiQueer to their use and develop it to integrate with OutHistory. My hunch is that unlike Wikipedia, their policies would be flexible enough to cover the wider array of content folks may be interested in adding. Use of transclusion would then allow for easier integration into the non-history - and perhaps more policy oriented - parts of WikiQueer that they may be less inclined to link to from OutHistory. It looks like they have a university affiliation and that can complicate inclusion of advocacy efforts.  :) I'm also setting up OH: and OutHist: for interwiki linking. BTW - I'll probably see you over at MeatballWiki next - trying to setup a bus stop. On a "plug" related note - still looking for Global Advisors if you or any wiki friends are interested.  :) --Varnent (talk) 03:04, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello - I have sent that link to 3 good friends already - will keep my ear on the ground for more. Love you ideas for working with OutHistory. Excited to come up with a proposal for them!! :-) I am their friendly wiki consultant and not a decision maker - and I do love the idea!! :-) Best, MarkDilley

Excellent - thank you! I got an inquiry today that reads like someone you may have encountered in the wikiverse.  :) I sent you an email to help get a proposal your way to look at for OutHistory. Let me know if you didn't get the email for some reason.  :) --Varnent (talk) 02:40, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Images and Media

Hello Varnent, I have prepared an drive yesterday to get the most images moved to the Wikimedia Commons. It is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Images and Media/Commons/Drive Sep 2011. It will start at 12 years ago or more precisely at 00:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC). There are some awards you may get. You may sign up now. ~~Ebe123~~ ^talk_Contribs 17:27, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

P.S. Since you want it, I have put the div tags.

Replaceable fair use File:Jonathan Ned Katz.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Jonathan Ned Katz.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information or which could be adequately covered with text alone. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

1. Go to the media description page and edit it to add {{di-replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

Please note that our policy usually considers fair use images of living people that merely show what they look like to be replaceable by free-licensed images and unsuitable for the project. We hope (talk) 16:03, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Some bubble tea for you for adding a photo!

Hey, if you get more data about Fenway Health and want to work on that article then let me know and I will help you integrate whatever data you find. Blue Rasberry (talk) 23:16, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! It's on my list of organizations whose articles I'd like to beef up in preparation for displaying them on WikiQueer. I've worked with Fenway and am a fan of theirs - so I'm happy to help track info down. --Varnent (talk) 23:20, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Am I correct in understanding that WikiQueer is going to include a directory of resources which would not merit inclusion into Wikipedia, such as descriptions of small non-notable LGBT organizations and projects? I work with some gay rights organizations in India and I would guess that no one else on the WikiQueer project is covering that region. Perhaps I could help with including info about some of those. Blue Rasberry (talk) 23:41, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Absolutely!! One big goal is to include articles on organizations, people and topics that don't quite meet WP's standards - or information (like talking points) that would violate WP's neutrality policy...but is very advantageous to a LGBT audience. We're already working on some EU and Canada outreach - I would love to see involvement with India organizations. Ideally we'd like to build the wiki to include other languages, but we're still in a very early stage. We're also working with organizations to promote and share their content via the wiki. Also actively looking for wiki savvy folks to serve on the Global Advisory Board if you're interested or know folks that might be. --Varnent (talk) 23:48, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Let me think about this. I need to organize my own notes and this might be a good place for me to put them. If you want to talk with a guy who has lots of HIV content in lots of languages, check AIDSvideos.org or just ask me more about the project. Eric Krock from that site is a friend in San Francisco who does awesome work to make a script about HIV available in every language. Blue Rasberry (talk) 00:24, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

That would be great! If you can help e-connect me with Eric - I would greatly appreciate it! I'll email you via WP so you have my contact info. In a past gig I administered a CDC grant doing HIV/AIDS testing awareness amongst LGBT youth - so it's a topic that's dear to me. The wiki is working with a HIV activist/reporter in Michigan - but we'll want lots more.  :) --Varnent (talk) 21:18, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia partnership

Hi Varnent,

I have taken a look at the links that you have posted, and tbh I'm not entirely certain what it is that you want of us. All of our content is licenced under the GNU copyleft licence and you can take whatever you want as long as you release the content under the same licence and offer some kind of credit. What is it that you're wanting WP:LGBT to do?

Dev920, who misses Jeffpw. 19:12, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Move to commons drive

Hi, as a reviewer, I have reviewed one of your images. I ended up reviewing all of your images, and the vast majority has problems. Please see your log for the problems. Right now you have -3 images, please do not change it back to its original. Please be more careful and after the next 3 bad images, I would bar you. Be careful. ~~Ebe123~~ (+) ^talk
_Contribs 11:35, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Quite a few of those were changed pretty quick - was just in the process of finishing them up. Will finish fixing up the rest soon. --Varnent (talk) 11:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I will be waiting 5 minutes for the newesty ones. ~~Ebe123~~ (+) ^talk
_Contribs 11:41, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks - I can't rename/move the files - but will keep in mind use of better names. Was an accidental oversight on my part that this couldn't be fixed after the bot copy. Will also make better use of " Working" - my bad.  :) --Varnent (talk) 12:15, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

The most important thing is to not transfer images where the source or copyright status are missing or unacceptable. Just pass over them and do ones you know are good to transfer. – Quadell ^(talk) 14:29, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Point taken - would it be possible to get the ones I uploaded yesterday rechecked? Except for the name issues - I think the other issues have been resolved on all but maybe one. --Varnent (talk) 20:33, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Invitation to join the January 2012 Move to Commons Drive

You got this message since you added yourself to the last time or is a member that stated yourself for moving files or related help. If you do not want notification for a future drive, please add yourself to this list.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Images and Media at 00:04, 15 October 2011 (UTC).

Joining of the next MtC drive

Thanks for joining the next MtC drive! I noticed that you forgot to put yourself on the logs page. Please do it, since the reviewers won't check the non-logged files. ~~Ebe123~~ (+) ^talk
_Contribs • 10:54, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

"clients"?

During the IRC chat highlighted in the latest Spotlight, you typed, "I have a long list of clients that don't touch enWP because it has no share capabilities - as crazy as I may think that sounds - their perceptions are my realities". Who are these "clients", and why do they want a "Share" button? I don't want to sound like Chzz, but I'm puzzled and repelled by this demand for Facebookiness. I don't come to Wikipedia to play Farmville, or post lolcats; why would I want a "Share" button? --Orange Mike | Talk 15:59, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Orange Mike | Talk 15:59, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad you've asked me this question here - gives me a chance to share some thoughts. That said, let me offer a few disclaimers first.  :) I would recommend you check out the WikiShare extension page to get a sense of its design and ask any extension specific questions or provide feedback there - mw:Extension:WikiShare. I should also provide some context for folks that didn't see the IRC. I am developing a MediaWiki extension for use by any MediaWiki wiki (such as mine) and WMF projects (like enWP and Wikinews). It is in response to a software bug filed in WMF's Bugzilla requesting the feature be added to Wikipedia - since there was some interest and it wasn't a WMF priority, I offered to create an extension as a volunteer. I've previously created a similar one called AddThis using the AddThis service. However, that uses third-party scripts and has other dependencies that are in conflict with some wiki privacy statements and policies - such as those used by all WMF projects. The idea was take the basics of that extension, remove all third-party services, house it within MW framework and make it "safe" for use by any wiki project.

There are already a few non-English Wikipedias using share buttons and English Wikinews is already using them as well. There isn't consistent use between these WMF projects and there was some concern a smaller WMF project may use a method that isn't ideal. So creating this extension for use by WMF project also became a criteria. As a developer, how I approach certain features may change depending on how the audience will use them. Now knowing at least some WMF projects (not enWP) may deploy the extension soon after its creation, I wanted to get a better sense of reader demand/usage since editors have debated the topic relentlessly here on enWP (and yes - I went through the tedious process of reading all those debates). Hence why I was asking reader relations staff if readers are demanding share features - which not surprisingly they are.

That brings us to Chzz's debates and I suspect the source of your question.  :) Regardless of any possible usage on enWP, development of this extension will be completed. Even if it's never used on a single WMF project, it will be maintained and used elsewhere. However, I anticipate it being used on at least some WMF projects. It's A LONG WAYS away from consideration or discussion of deployment on a massive wiki like enWP, so I'm not at all ready for such a debate as the extension doesn't even exist yet. Nor have I even decided if I'll even engage in such a debate personally. As I said before, enWP wasn't a motive in creating this extension. However, I do personally believe such a feature has a place on enWP for a long list of reasons. I recognize some editors will find its presence annoying, and I respect that, which is why this extension intentionally allows them to disable the whole thing when they're logged in. As to why it should be here, I'd point to the mountains of research on why these buttons work, are used, etc. But, like I said, that conversation is probably months off, so I'm not going to waste time finding the sources unless I wind up engaging in the debate should that time ever come.  :)

Regarding my clients, I can't say which organizations or companies specifically said what as that would be a breach of confidentially and just a dumb idea all around.  :) However, the exact names aren't important anyway. In general they are reasonably sized national and international organizations with a progressive activist volunteer and staff base. Generally the issue centers around fundraising and marketing - which is a common barrier for nonprofit involvement in outside projects (sort of that unpleasant side most try not to think about but we're forced to deal with to survive). It's just a reality that in tough times, it's very difficult to allocate resources towards something your donors either aren't paying for or don't understand you're doing. Rightly or wrongly, social media has become an important factor in a lot of these organizations fundraising and marketing efforts. Showing folks every few days "look at this great thing we just worked on" is working better than a monthly round-up of "look at these things we did". If there's not a systematic or automated way for them to promote their volunteer or staff's involvement in an outside project, it means more work for an already overloaded marketing/development staff to get the word out that they're doing these things. I understand you can always copy and paste to share a link - but plenty of studies have showed that just doesn't work as well as share buttons. As I said in the IRC, it's a logic I've argued with a few times - but ultimately they decide if it's not social media friendly - it's not a good use of their limited time during a tough fundraising climate. We can argue with that all day - but I've heard it from enough clients to feel confident there's at least some consensus amongst that segment of groups that this is a barrier. Plus I haven't heard any of my colleagues winning the argument either - so I'm moving on to other solutions. I should probably point out these folks are not potential COIs as their target would be the hundreds (or thousands) of articles within their organization's public education expertise - some are potential GLAM folks (although I have no involvement in that project and can't speak at all to what they may be hearing from potential participants). Many have already given up completely on maintaining their organization's article (again - for better or worse I can't say).

I also tend to disagree - and in general not accept the premise of - the argument that share buttons make a wiki transform into a social media project. I've seen hundreds of wikis with them, including just about every Wikia wiki, and thousands of news, blogs and other "non-social media" sites with them included. I tend to think it's a fine line between "we're not social media" and "we shy away from all community-building". A enWP specific system of liking or sharing that only speaks to other enWP users and uses lots of infringing APIs...sure...that may cross a line. But simply allowing use of outside services via URL submission (so no APIs, malware or privacy leaks) seems wildly different. I'm not sure inclusion of a nice search feature makes a wiki a search engine, and I don't think wikis using Google Search are closer to being a search engine than enWP is.

It's very difficult (probably impossible) to develop any web platform trying to please everyone. I recognize you may be annoyed by a share button, but that's why you can turn it off. Anonymous users (who won't be able to disable it as they're not logged in) are generally readers - who seem to overwhelming want that feature added. I suspect a lot of features now included in enWP wouldn't pass collective editor scrutiny. Is the print feature dangerously close to turning enWP into an offline project, magazine or book? Does the PDF export mean enWP is publicly showing favoritism for an Adobe product? I could come up with arguments against dozens of enWP features, but that doesn't mean those arguments should outweigh the needs of the millions of other users.  :)

I hope that rant answers your question and gives you some context on how this all come up, what I'm working on specifically and where I stand on it all. --Varnent (talk) 20:47, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

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Your input is needed on the SOPA initiative

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New version of huggle

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March 2012 Move-to-Commons drive

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Images and Media at 07:44, 29 February 2012 (UTC).

Happy Birthday (2012)

Wishing Varnent a very happy birthday on behalf of the Birthday Committee! Armbrust, B.Ed. ^{Let's talk}_{about my edits?} 01:04, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikimedia Midwest

Hello, Varnent. You have new messages at [[User talk:MichChemGSI (talk)|User talk:MichChemGSI (talk)]].
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