Talk:Kiss (band)

Changes to genre section of infobox

Changes to the genre section of the infobox should first be discussed here and then only changed if there are no objections to the change or after a consensus is reached. Several genres were recently added, reverted, then added again. I will take them out again but only so a proper discussion can had. Also, genres aren't proper nouns, only the first in the list should be capitalized. J04n(talk page) 02:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I've added a hidden comment to the genre section to let users know about discussing the changes first. Frehley 03:41, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

::I think its fine the way it is. The current entries should actually promote not adding more. Hard rock is like an umbrella genre covering several different styles of rock. And being 'heavy metal' also means being any number of sub-genres of heavy metal regardless of who or which. Using a generic subject as an example. Say "Band X" is well known around the globe as a death metal band. It is 100% correct o say "Band X" is a heavy metal band. Avoiding pov sub-genre labelling can be easily avoided by using the root genres to encompass then all. GripTheHusk (talk) 03:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC) Striking sock Rockgenre (talk) 01:26, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

If u say heavy metal and hard rock covers all sub-genres then how r ppl gonna know what sub-genres they are? if heavy metal covers death metal like u said then maybe ppl mistake KISS 4 death metal. That's y sub-genres r important. So KISS is glam rock, hair metal, shock rock, AND disco (which has nothing 2 do with hard rock or heavy metal, it's a completely different style of music) not just hard rock and heavy metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imagesk8r6969 (talk • contribs) 00:22, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I think the page should be left as is. The 2 genres that are listed as more than enough. The only way it could be improved would be if it just said rock. Or, even better, take the field out of every single music article completely. Fair Deal (talk) 00:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC) Striking sock Rockgenre (talk) 01:26, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I suppose I should chime in since I requested this discussion. I would prefer to only see one genre either rock or hard rock, if I had to choose one it would be the latter. The infobox is a brief snapshot of the subject of the article. If someone totaly ignorant to the subject, in this case Kiss, were to look at the information they should be able to briefly get an idea as to what the subject is about. The body of the article is where more details (if properly sourced and referenced) belong. Did "I Was Made For Loving You" have a disco beat? Yes. In the 80s did they resemble the hair bands of that era? Yes. I suppose that because of Music from the Elder they are also a progressive rock band? No. When you look at their extensive body of work they have remained a rock band. J04n(talk page) 00:47, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

"I was made for lovin' you" is still played today, correct? Then they have played disco over the years, so at least consider "disco" as a genre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imagesk8r6969 (talk • contribs) 11:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

One song that has a hint of a disco beat over the course of an entire career as long as Kiss' is meaningless superfluity. They are first and foremost a hard rock/heavy metal band... everything else is just fluff compared to those two. The article for 'I Was Made... ' states that it was disco (although even there it is really pushing it) and that is more than enough. Glam rock an glam metal do not describe musical style... they describe visual look. And the field is a genre field not a visual look field. So lets not clutter it up with anything other than the obvious... hard rock-heavy metal. The Real Libs-speak politely 12:05, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Glam Rock / Shock Rock is more the Kiss Genre, I would't place Kiss as a Heavy Metal band cus many MetalHeads hate Kiss, and Kiss are too Soft for the Metal genre, Iron Maiden,Dio,Black Sabbath are three known and Loved Metal bands this bands are 100% Heavy Metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.165.247.95 (talk) 13:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

glam rock and shock rock are terms that describe a visual look. But they aren't defined musical styles. They describe fashion not music. The field is meant for defined genres, not terms. The Real Libs-speak politely 13:44, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Please consider KISS as "glam metal", because throughout their 80s era they played glam metal AKA hair metal. is it killing any1 2 explain what kind of music they played in the 80s??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.24.24.136 (talk) 22:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree, they are glam metal, just look at the way they dressed and the makeup they wore! Plus, I've found a few articles on some of their albums which were labelled as "Glam Metal" (such as Lick It Up). -Wolfinator-x —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolfinator-x (talk • contribs) 21:56, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

KISS is a rock band. The genre is what type of Rock, is it rock and roll? Soft rock? Pop rock? Hard rock? Heavy metal, glam, disco etc are NOT genres but styles within a genre. To you judge the style based on singles released or the overall music style of the band? There are plenty of bands who have released "pop" hits whos usualy music is not along those styles. I would have KISS squarely in Hard Rock for their early years, but from Dynasty onwards, they mellowed into more of a pop rock. But, the true test of a bands genre should come from a stage performance. There is NOTHING even remotely disco about any of the shows I have seen, there is nothing "pop" about their shows. Its not heavy metal, or thrash metal or soft metal... Its simply a hard rock show. Theloneoutsider (talk) 04:51, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually, Glam Metal (and glam rock) is a subgenre of heavy metal/rock music. And it should be added.--79.115.178.180 (talk) 14:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC) You people could never be soooo WRONG!!(exept for the people who say KISS is metal) KISS is easily heavier than AC/DC and Sabbath. KISS started off as Shock Rock (Hard rock with the element of SHOCK!), however Destroyer was easily Heavy Metal. As for their down fall they played pop rock and still some Hard rock. With their come back "creatures of the night" they played Heavy Metal before moving on to Glam Metal. Then came "Revenge" which was complateley HEAVY MATAL! When the reunion kicked in they went back to Shock Rock or Hard Rock. Over all KISS has played Shock Rock, Hard Rock, Pop Rock, Heavy Matal, and Glam Metal. Oh and just so you know Iron Maiden were a bunch of die hard KISS fans. METAL HEADS DON'T HATE KISS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.12.222.53 (talk) 10:28, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Why is glam metal not listed in the genre part? Lick It Up and Animalize are glam metal album which means they are glam metal. That's also with pop-rock(Dynasty, Unmasked). Zrinschchuck

Creepy styling of the KISS name

Just registering a protest on the way the band name is stylized. There is, to my mind, all the difference in the world between 1) deferring to trademark to the point of spelling out something like BLAZE ORANGE or styling Macy's as Macy*s--versus using upper/lower characters in KISS. And if we do this, then it should be AC/DC [and don't get on me about how it's about how the word/name is pronounced; there are tons of acronyms that are pronounced as words, but still commonly spelled out].

I'm a good stylistic soldier, but this looks uncommonly odd. That likely marks me as a creature of the 1970s, but still...Kiss? Really?

Yeah... just a voice crying in the wilderness.Scooge (talk) 00:56, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I suppose I should respond since I probably edit "KISS" to "Kiss" more than anyone. Personally, I was excited when I discovered that MOS:TM specifically mentions Kiss. I find KISS to be unprofessional and dare I say it unencyclopedic. That being said, Scrooge, your philosophy of don't-give-a-fuckism intrigues me. So what the fuck, if enough editors agree with you I will resist my urges and leave it as KISS. I reserve the right to determine what enough means. J04n(talk page) 01:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC) P.S. I joined the KISS ARMY in 1977

So in what official literature is the band listed as Kiss instead of KISS? I would think that should be more of a determinging factor. Theloneoutsider (talk) 05:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Billboard magazine, The New York Times, MTV and (other than in titles) Rolling Stone. This isn't a fansite, lots of trademarked names are in all caps in their logo: Pepsi, Exxon, Mad but when referring to them you go to standard capitalization rules. J04n(talk page) 05:21, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I never said this was a fan site, but merely expressing, in a round about way, that I havent come across any instances where "Kiss" is used instead of "KISS". Admitedly, I dont go scouring the itnernet for stories on them and so havent read up on what you may have. In the same case that I do not come across "Abba" but rather "ABBA", "Inxs" instead of "INXS". Unlike your argmunets about Pepsi, Mad mag or Exxon, we are not talking about logos, but rather names. While I am more than happy to accept the styling of "Kiss" over "KISS" I would hope that you are open to a change of mind if you find that the bands founders chose to have the band referred to as "KISS" rather than the aforementioned "Kiss" Easy to verify really. Any written works by Simmons or Stanley should easily clear that up and would put a permanent end to the argument, because it would be then clearly in the style that the band themselves have designed it to be written in.Theloneoutsider (talk) 02:37, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I hope I didn't come off as arrogant in my last post but I do find the all-caps 'KISS' to be very fan-sitey. You are correct that in pieces written by Gene are Paul they do use the all caps, but the examples that I provided are independent of the subject and I believe more akin to what we are doing here, building an encyclopedia. ABBA, is an acronym for its members' names, hence the all caps, for INXS (or AC/DC) they are in caps because the letters are pronounced individually (although I suppose there is an argument for the 'N' in INXS). There is a guideline that covers this, MOS:TM, that specifically uses KISS/Kiss as an example. If you look up the last time that this was brought up I agreed to go with the consensus and no one responded until you did 5 months later. J04n(talk page) 10:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I confess to not being too interested in any MOS:TM references or anything, simply in seeing things as being put right. I do find it odd that if the band themselves capitalise their name, that someone should come along and say it shouldnt be capitalised. While the sylisation of letters (which is really the integral part, because thats how the band is identified) cannot be reproduced in many bands names.. (ABBA uses a backwards B, KoRn like wise uses a backwards R as examples) it really comes down to a bands own decision of how it should be addressed. Yes, its fansitey, and wiki is all about verifiable facts. And, the most verifiable fact available would be the band themselves. However, I am not campaigning for it being changed back merely debating the merits of the decision process. I havent read the policy link, i may do at some time, however i suspect their logic is flawed simply because it sounds to be based on the same principles they use when referring to spelling and such with the difference between american spelling and proper english spelling. Anyway, this isnt the forum for that kind of discussion. Just adding my thoughts on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theloneoutsider (talk • contribs) 23:07, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

There is a specific mention of Kiss at WP:MOS. (I only realised this today.) I wouldn't be totally opposed to arguing for a change there, as the band seems to universally use KISS. However, as noted, this may open a problematic floodgate for other bands, that use something far more complicated than all caps.Mk5384 (talk) 17:15, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

What about the "forgotten" album (maybe it was an EP? LP?) "Killers"?

I don't know enough to fill in this topic, but in KISS: Behind the Mask (David Leaf and Ken Sharp, authors), mention is made of "Killers", apparently released "spring 1982", which was, according to Paul Stanley (p. 344) "a warm-up" as they were getting ready to do "Creatures of the Night". The producer, Michael James Jackson, calls it the "KISS Killers LP" (p. 346). However, only 4 songs are specifically mentioned, entitled "I'm A Legend Tonight", "Down On Your Knees", "Nowhere To Run", and "Partners In Crime". In this article's discography, "Killers" is listed as a compilation album; the book suggests that the above 4 songs were original material (as was also the case with some of KISS' other compilations). I can't really tell whether this deserves mention in the main article (between "Music from the Elder" and "Creatures of the Night"); maybe someone else can help.

I haven't seen other references to this album/LP/whatever it really is, but I bet someone in the Wiki world has an old vinyl copy and might be able to fill in the blanks -- the biography almost raises more questions than it answers.

• It is at Killers (Kiss album); it's a compilation (with 2 4 'new' tracks) so not listed in the main discography. J04n(talk page) 04:36, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Makeup variants

The makeup section is incomplete. There are numerous variants to each of the four main characters' makeup:

1) Paul Stanley's early "bandit" design.

2) Early versions of Gene Simmons's makeup had a slightly different design below the eyes.

3) Ace's makeup added blue eyeshadow circa 1979.

4) Peter's makeup didn't add the green until circa 1979. Also, on the first album his whisker design is considerably different.

5) Eric Carr early on had a costume called "The Hawk" It was short lived and is barely even known about, but if you look it up it should be somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.231.254.186 (talk) 23:51, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I believe that there is a brief mention of this in the liner notes of one of the Kissology DVDs.Mk5384 (talk) 17:18, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I would be more than happy to fully research this and create the graphics for an update. I just need someone to point me in the direction of instructions on how to upload graphics, please (ronmoses@gmail.com). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.139.189.34 (talk) 13:22, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Interestingly, Peter's makeup design on the first album was kind of a mistake; they hired a makeup artist (usually the members did their own makeup) and the artist got a little too exuberant. Peter never actually wore that makeup except on the first album cover. Also, for others' info, I finally found a reference to Vinnie Vincent's character; Gene Simmons' autobiography calls him "The Wiz" (not the "Ankh Warrior" as was previously stated in this article). I guess it's hard to find that reference because he only used the makeup and character for a VERY short time before the makeup was removed. Hope this is vaguely useful.

Tigger-ibby (talk) 09:30, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone re-edited my change of Vinnie Vincent's makeup name (The Wiz, according to Gene Simmons' biography, NOT "Ankh Warrior"); if anyone has a reference that his character WAS actually called something other than "The Wiz" please let me know. For now I won't re-edit this area ... Oh never mind, I couldn't help myself ... But if it gets reverted again I'll wait for someone else to either reference "Ankh Warrior" or back up my research!

Tigger-ibby (talk) 20:36, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

seeing how the bandit was not used for long i see no reason to include it on the page. and tiny variations as in the green in peter's makeup or the blue in ace's are mainly just the band members testing diff desgins to it so that it won't be the same old stuff. as the Vinnie's make up, Gene called it the wiz but it was paul that created the design and he called the either The Ankh Warrior or the Warrior i can't remember. so i should stay the Ankh Warrior. and i did add the name The Hawk to the makeup without a pic and now i realize that i doesn't fit. the design was never released, he never wore it so there's no point in it. έЯїᴄ_ᴐᴬṛṛ_ḟḁṉ (talk) 01:16, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Vinnie Vincent -- The Wiz vs. Ankh Warrior?

I give up! Why does my edit to Vinnie Vincent's makeup name keep getting reverted (by someone not logged in, so I can't contact them directly)? I have read 3 Kiss biographies; neither "Black Diamond" nor "Kiss - Behind the Mask" seems to mention any name for Vinnie Vincent's short-lived character who wore the Ankh makeup. However, Gene Simmons' bio "Kiss and Make-up" clearly refers to Vincent's character as "The Wiz" -- see p. 187 of this book for confirmation. Does anyone else have a reference saying otherwise? Even if such a reference exists, it would just make the character name controversial (if a band founder says the name is "The Wiz" and another source says it's something else, that would be contradictory). I realize that this is a really minor part of the article but I would like to get it right; if a controversy exists, it would be worth mentioning (and would probably stem from the fact that the character was used for such a short time that the character definition/traits/name were never really solid).

I have the incredible privilege of meeting Kiss at one of their upcoming concerts; I don't know whether I will have the opportunity to ask any questions (and it might be rude to bring up the topic of Vinnie Vincent) -- but if I can I will try to ask Paul Stanley himself what the character's name was. I would hope that whatever he answers would put an end to the argument here (although it might be really hard to reference -- "personal communication"?).

Any other opinions/suggestions, feel free to jump in! Thanks!

Tigger-ibby (talk) 20:15, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

• KISS FAQ has it as The Warrior, but it is common understanding that he portrays the Ankh Warrior (for the ankh on his face) or the Egyptian Warrior. http://www.kissfaq.com/KissFAQ-wiki/index.php?title=Band_Members_-_Vinnie_Vincent Arg2k (talk) 23:46, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

KISS FAQ (A fan stite) vs. Gene Simmon's autobiography (A founding member)... Well its easy to see who is most credible —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.104.252.153 (talk) 01:16, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Mr. Simmons is not infallible. What has Vincent's make-up to do with "The Wiz"? "The Wiz(ard)" refers to Vincent's guitar playing. Antique Rose — Drop me a line 22:53, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Glam rock/metal

I was wondering should glam rock and glam metal be added as genres,as Kiss is listed in the list of glam rock artists on Wikipedia,and some of their 80s albums are glam metal?The Great Duck (talk) 21:22, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree, they are defiantly a glam rock band--67.86.120.246 (talk) 18:14, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I think a little time for consensus to develop would be useful here. Although Allmusic states that Kiss were "Rooted in the campy theatrics of Alice Cooper and the sleazy hard rock of glam rockers the New York Dolls", it doesn't label them as a "glam rock" band. Our own opinions are not enough here, and neither is what is said in any other article. For a proper discussion to develop, I will revert this change for now. Rodhullandemu 18:22, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

My opinion on this is to limit the entry in the infobox to the single most identifiable genre. Then if sources support other genres add them to the text with the references properly cited. Adding more than one genre invites more and more entries making the infobox look a mess. Bands like Kiss are particularly difficult in that their career has spanned several decades plus on individual albums you can point to songs that have the characteristics of several different genres. I would be in favor of limiting the infobox entry to the broad term Rock music. J04n(talk page) 18:31, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

They are metal!! 67.225.27.232 (talk) 02:35, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

they havent perfected in the metal sound and they are glam-inspired hard rock Val hallen (talk) 16:04, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

According to Gene Simmons Autobiography, they were deliberately Glam Metal in the 80's, because it was inn.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.104.252.153 (talk) 16:00, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

What's with the Spanish section on the page?

I mean this is the English wiki page right? So can someone remove/edit/translate that for the page?

I think you have an old version of the page; it looks OK to me. Try reloading it and refreshing your browser cache. Rodhullandemu 00:33, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editsemiprotected}} This page needs to be semi-procted manily because KISS is a popular band that takes quite a bit of crap from ppl. EXP: some guy edited the page changing the name somewhere on the page to SUCK MY TITS but the guy used just and IP address.

•  Not done The level of vandalism isn't sufficient to warrant protection right now. This page IS watched by admins, so it will be caught quite quickly. Rodhullandemu 00:03, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Kiss comic

Don't know exactly where to put this, or if it even deserves mention...but I'll put it here and let the editors decide. When KISS was going to be featured in a Marvel comic book, it was decided that it would be a good publicity stunt to have actual blood mixed in with the red ink. Most people believe that this is merely an urban legend...what reputable publisher would do something like that, right? But this was 1977...before AIDs and all the strict regulations on the handling of blood. So it was actually done. Citation link here: [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.220.206.189 (talk) 16:25, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It is covered at Kiss (comics). J04n(talk page) 17:32, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Genre infobox

ok the already discussed genre change is way to complicated to read with all the lines though stuff so i'm starting a new one. I think that heavy metal should be removed as a genre, seeing how hard rock and heavy metal is to totatly diff genres and really i have not heard a heavy metal song by kiss mainly because most ppl like i compare heavy metal as death metal. so i propose that heavy metal should be removed. έЯїᴄ_ᴐᴬṛṛ_ḟḁṉ (talk) 01:11, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Death metal is subgenre of metal heavily influenced by KISS, Chris Barnes of Cannibal Corpse said his reason for singing that way was gene simmons' demon character, so dont knock KISS away from Death metal theyre not far off lol 67.225.27.232 (talk) 23:38, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

OK you say that you have heared no heavy metal songs by KISS, well i am going to list some:"I've had enough into the fire", "Burn bitch burn", "Under the gun", "Any way you slice it","I'm Alive","loves a deadly weapon","Exiter","Not for the innocent","Young and wasted","Gimme more","Fits like a glove","Creatures of the night", "Danger","I love it loud","KIller", "War machine". Now here are some real old school metal songs by KISS: "Detroit rock city", "God of thunder". There are two other albums worth of metal but i think i have listed enough. Just for the record i am not a KISS fan i am more into Slayer and Anthrax. In my experience these songs are hevier than most stuf by Iron Maiden. So have a listen to these songs before asuming KISS's genre based on their popular past.

Solo albums

The 4 "solo albums" simultaneously released by the band were technically KISS albums. I think that the article should note this. I'll try to find a source, but I figure that someone else probably has one that could be used for this.Mk5384 (talk) 17:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Year formed

maybe you should put how the formed in 1972 but didn't officially become a band till 1973 (because that is something some people question) —Preceding unsigned comment added by I fix pages (talk • contribs) 04:20, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Musical genres

Can I also put Glam rock and Glam metal?

--Paramecio (talk) 08:59, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

German logo

Could someone please add the version of the band's logo used in Germany? I'm not a fanatic of the band and had never heard of a German-only logo before. What's it look like? Seems odd to mention it without ever revealing what the difference is. I mean, yes, the page says it's the 'S's that are changed, but how? And even if someone were to describe just how the German 'S's look, showing it would be better and more effective than any description.

Oh, and does the band have a German-only drum with that logo? Or do they do something in protest, like tape a paper over their normal logo. Just curious. --98.163.227.30 (talk) 03:14, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Do a Google search for "kiss german logo". SJ2571 (talk) 12:06, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Awards/nomiations, etc.

ok, so the bit towards the end of, what i would call the "intro" to the page seems too jammed and not well written. i'm talking about the whole, "KISS was named #1 on this list and that list" stuff. i will admit i was the one who first put they were nominated for the RNR Hall of Fame, but since then its become too clustered. and quite frankly the KISS Awards page, is too short anyway, so why don't we either move the end stuff to the awards section and get rid of the separate page, or at least make it a lot neater. for the time being i'm just going to rewrite it. --έЯїᴄ_ᴐᴬṛṛ_ḟḁṉ (talk) 03:00, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Two appearances supporting The Elder? Three listed...

"The band made only two appearances in support of the new album, both in January 1982. One was a performance on the ABC late-night variety program Fridays, while the second was a lip-synched performance that was broadcast via satellite during Italy's Sanremo Music Festival.[57] Kiss also performed "I", and "A World Without Heroes" on Solid Gold." (emphasis mine)

That sure does sound like three appearances to me. Perhaps this should read:

"The band made only three appearances in support of the new album. Two of these were in January 1982; one was a performance on the ABC late-night variety program Fridays, while the second was a lip-synched performance that was broadcast via satellite during Italy's Sanremo Music Festival.[57] Kiss also performed "I", and "A World Without Heroes" on Solid Gold." -Ron Moses (ronmoses@gmail.com) --75.68.52.249 (talk) 02:19, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

File:Kiss Army form.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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The runic SS, , is available.

If the editors want to include the runic SS in the text of this article there is a WP image file with it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.149.42 (talk) 02:44, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Untitled (19 April 2012)

this is boring i cant find a single picture of the band together — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.240.208.157 (talk) 02:23, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

The Lead Singer?

Who is the lead singer in KISS? I thought it was Gene. 114.76.113.91 (talk) 11:05, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Mr Hanky

Just a thought here: If they brought Mr Hanky into the band, he wouldn't have to wear any face paint; or would he? 207.151.38.178 (talk) 00:31, 7 July 2012 (UTC)