Jump to content

Talk:Greek landing at Smyrna

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Khadkhall (talk | contribs) at 13:05, 3 October 2012. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Why not İzmir ?

Any hint why this city is called Smyrna ? It was İzmir before the landing, it was İzmir after it was liberated and it is İzmir now . Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:19, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Takabeg (talk) 14:01, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pointless Article

I have to admit this article is ridiculous and has no place on Wikipedia. There is already an article about the occupation of Smyrna. Therefore it should be deleted.Abbatai 12:10, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to write the article Greek landing at Smyrna with military oriented contents. Many users who are interested in the Greco-Turkish War (1919–1922) are focusing on its atrocities and massacres too much. In the article Occupation of Smyrna, there are various topics of the occupational area around Smyrna throughout 1919-1922. And the article Occupation of Smyrna cannot be regarded as the one of the article of Category:Battles of the Greco-Turkish War of 1919–1922. As you know, in English Wikipedia, there are articles Normandy landings (6 June 1944), Operation Overlord (6 June – 25 August 1944), Western Front (World War II) etc... So I intend to focus on this incident in this article. In Turkish language, this incident is known as Yunanistan'ın İzmir'e asker çıkarması (15 Mayıs 1919). I'm going to start the article with the topic of the dismissal of Nureddin Pasha. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 02:38, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My deletion request - RfC

I proposed the "deletion" of this article, because there is already a more comprehensive article on the Occupation of Izmir by Greece. That article currently has the name "Occupation of Smyrna". I think we should take the opportunity to also rename the said article by adding the word "Greek or Greece" in the title, like, p.e. "Greek occupation of Smyrna". This way it will be more clear, because in every occupation or invasion as important as the occupied or invaded place is the name of the occupier or invader; like in the case of Turkish invasion of Cyprus.

I am writing these opinions here, because in the framework of my proposal, while we discuss the issue we may also consider merging/moving this present article into the article Occupation of Smyrna and also, maybe, consider renaming it "Greek occupation of Smyrna" or with another similar name. --E4024 (talk) 21:54, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think the article should stay. At the moment it is devoid of details but that's not due to lack of source material. Adding the detailed history of the Greek landing to Occupation of Smyrna is not appropriate when a paragraph or 2 should suffice. HelenOfOz (talk) 01:58, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As you said "there is an article on Greek occupation of Smyrna". Yes, we know (we means every user except you) that. But that occupation continued from 1919 to 1922. A military operation that had continued from May to June 1919. This military operation have to be explained in this article (I hope this military operation will be explained more detail). Takabeg (talk) 11:27, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Takabeg I will respond to you in your own TP. --E4024 (talk) 11:30, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think this article should be deleted while the information, here provided, continues to be scattered and be less informative than the landing section within the article "Greek Occupation of Smyrna". Khadkhall (talk) 08:43, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The deletion discussion is on this page in fact. --E4024 (talk) 09:06, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with Takabeg (above) when he says he wants this to be a page just about the Military aspects and fit more in line with the other Military history pages. I think he is right about why this should be separate from Occupation of Smyrna, to focus on the Battle alone. But as an editor, I'm struck by two problems: 1. There wasn't a battle, there was violence. This is fundamentally different than the Battle of Sakarya, Normandy landings, or Battle of Lima Site 85. Two armies did not take the field at Smyrna. The Greeks were authorized by the allies to land, the Ottoman authorities acquiesced, then ethnic mob violence broke out (sometimes involving troops, sometimes not). From Smith and the Inter-Allied Commission report, the Ottoman troops were in their barracks when a shot hit the Greek troops and the Greeks responded by firing into the Barracks until the Ottoman troops surrendered. That does not make a battle. 2. There isn't a 'Military History' about the topic in English. At least that I can find. There are histories, but not military histories in terms of 'this General did this, this commander did this and this strategy worked'. I agree with Takabeg as for intentions, but this is a square peg in a round hole: it isn't a battle or military exercise like the Normandy landings was a battle (it was just chaos with ethnic violence). I think Merge is the right approach. I think anyone who wants to keep should edit this article to provide it with significant details (about Nureddin Pasha or the Allied command) to really justify its division. Simply saying "Occupation was 3 years, this is a month in those 3 years" is not a good reason for keeping the separation. Good, unique content is a good reason for separation; this type of content is currently lacking. AbstractIllusions (talk) 18:21, 2 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Was event"?

I think if we cannot reach a consensus on deleting or moving this article someone should spare time to re-write it in proper English... --E4024 (talk) 11:47, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree on that, the present form is terrible.Alexikoua (talk) 10:12, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And what is worse is that those people who do not want to delete this article do not do anything to develop it... --E4024 (talk) 17:54, 2 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Copy-edit to make English clear in already existing details and added with information from Occupation of Smyrna page and Inter-Allied Commission of Inquiry reports. I could not find a good English military history to add to the details. I did not fact-check or delete existing material at all, some of which I have serious problems with (like the 12 sources in the lead that add little content). It still needs significant help, but hopefully this starts us down that road. And finally: Yes, the good norm to follow is if you vote keep on any page, you should add reputable information to that page to make it better. AbstractIllusions (talk) 17:48, 2 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much Abstract. The WP project needs people like you. (Note: I took the opportunity to sign a previous talk of mine that apparently I had forgotten to sign and the Sinebot must have missed...) --E4024 (talk) 17:54, 2 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

liberation or invasion

In the first paragraph it is written that it is termed also a liberation or invasion of the city. I think there is no need to be diplomatic here since it is entirely accepted fact that it was an invasion so I will change it if no one suggest otherwise. Khadkhall (talk) 13:05, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Greek_landing_at_Smyrna&oldid=515788693"