Wikipedia talk:Featured picture candidates

FPCs needing feedback
	Lauren Bacall
	Eastern amberwing
	Wikipe-tan and Commons-tan

Nomination

Hi, I would like to nominate

86.160.84.230 (talk) 21:26, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

You are welcome to nominate it, following the instructions provided on the Project page. However, I can tell you now that it is unlikely to pass, as it is below the minimum resolution requirements as per the criteria. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 22:13, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't think I could do that without being logged on, so I was thinking someone else could do it on my behalf. However, if it's certain to fail on technical requirements then there's no point. That's a shame because it is a good picture IMO. 86.160.84.230 (talk) 00:18, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

You would need to have a logged-in user create the nomination page. It is a shame that the image is a somewhat low resolution. You may try emailing the author to have them release a higher resolution image :) Jujutacular (talk) 01:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I've actually already sent the author Flickr mail a minute ago. JJ Harrison (talk) 01:15, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Here it is:

--JJ Harrison (talk) 10:15, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Nice! I actually had an edit conflict with Diliff yesterday and just discarded my edit, but it would have been a remark that this is a very nice find. Great to have a decent resolution of it. --Dschwen 14:25, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I very much like this image as well. SharkD  Talk  22:35, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks; now it is an FP at Commons! JKadavoor Jee 16:23, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Commenting on nominations

Hi, is there a rule that only people logged on and with accounts can comment on nominations? 81.159.107.19 (talk) 01:26, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

• To comment, not necessarily, but to vote, yes. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 02:01, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, OK, thanks. I'll change it to a comment. 81.159.107.19 (talk) 02:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
    • Depends, we don't 100% restrict anonymous votes, but if there is ANY indication it might be an attempt to game the system, then it would be ignored, best to just use an account here, but it's not as cut-and-dry as Diliff makes it sound.. heh. — raekyt 14:15, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
      • Even without there being an attempt to gain, on most discussions/votes here and elsewhere on Wikipedia, anonymous users' input is given a lot less weight, that's mainly due to the fact that those comments can't be tied down to one person behind the connection and anonymous users, unlike logged in users, are seen as having less of a connection to the community. Some of those points are disputable of course. Cat-fivetc ---- 00:52, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposal: Wikipedia does Black History Month (a couple months early so that PotD can do Black History Month)

I'd like to suggest that this may be a good time to start thinking about Black History Month (February). If we can get 28 pictures that cover black history in all its variety, Wikipedia can do it properly.

The month is celebrated in three countries, the U.S., the U.K, and Canada, so we should try to cover each of them, but I don't think we should limit ourselves to them - Black History goes back a long way, after all, and I see no reason whatsoever to exclude, say, the Mali Empire, Australian Aborigines, or, for that matter, the history of the Indian Subcontinent. With that much variety in topics, it shouldn't be too hard to create a varied month. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 09:37, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

• An entire month of black history related images? I'm not sure that it's is realistic to, at reasonably short notice, find that many images of sufficient quality relating to the subject (but I'm happy to be proven wrong), or appropriate to completely appropriate a significant portion of the main page for a month for this potentially contentious cause. Also, you say that it's celebrated in the UK, but the Black History Month article says it's celebrated in October here, not February. Not that it really broke into the mainstream as far as I am aware. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 10:12, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

I did try to find when it was celebrated over here in the article, couldn't find it, so presumed it was the same month as the others. Given it's in the lead, not sure how I missed that. Anyway, I do think that trying to improve systemic bias is a useful goal, and if this helps fix that, why not? I bet I can do half a month by myself. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 12:01, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

• I believe you could fulfill that claim, so I won't bet against you. However, can the main page really handle a whole month without any pictures of birds? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:36, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

• It is an interesting idea to have thematic periods in our POTD. But one month is really too much! -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 12:40, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

• Maybe once or twice a week? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:43, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

The irony is that by featuring only black history images for an entire month in an attempt to fight systematic bias, we'd actually be introducing systematic bias in the way we feature images on the mainpage. ;-) Ðiliff «» (Talk) 13:16, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) Something "black history" themed for the first and maybe last day is fine, but I'm strongly opposed to a themed month. We don't have something Christmas related every day of December, and Christmas is an international holiday celebrated/observed by billions. Black history month is a distinctly American (and not uncontroversial) not-quite-holiday. J Milburn (talk) 13:21, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

• I'm with JM here, first/last day maybe, but not the whole month. Also this isn't the proper place to discuss it, it would need to be discussed at WP:POTD, although POTD pulls pictures from the FP pool, the FPC is not in charge of or able to dictate what happens at POTD. — raekyt 06:46, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

One criticism of Black History Month is that it implies that the rest of the year is devoted to "normal", i.e. white history. This obviously debatable, but I feel like in this case, there is some truth: by featuring black-related pictures for an entire month, we might feel less obligated to include them for the rest of the year. I would support doing the first and last days, though, and I'm definitely in favor of any attempt to improve coverage of people of color on a more regular basis. Lesgles (talk) 00:20, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

GFDL 1.2 only (and 1.3)

Probably cause a stink, but I think the same reasoning why Commons banned featured pictures using this restrictive licensing, applies here. It's very restrictive, and effectively make's commercial use impossible for images licensed this way. Only reason a photographer would want to use this license is to restrict commercial use and funnel commercial requests to their pay-website to pay to use. This goes against the spirit of wikipedia, and shouldn't be allowed. A featured picture, something we're promoting on our front page, an encyclopedia free to use, free to reuse, free to publish commercially, shouldn't be featuring pictures that are effectively unusable in most commercial applications. See the commons discussion @ commons:Commons_talk:Featured_picture_candidates/Archive_12#Proposal:_Change_to_FP_criteria_for_new_nominations:_disallow_.22GFDL_1.2_only.22_and_.22GFDL_1.2_and_an_NC-only_license.22. — raekyt 06:51, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

While I fully agree with almost all of the points you make, I think the argument that this is a concern of WP:FP is weaker than that it was a concern of COM:FP. Just to make it clear, Commons hasn't yet banned GFDL-only licences for uploads, but there is certainly a movement towards that happening at some point. The change is that Commons:FP will no longer promote GFDL-only images to featured status.

Wikimedia Commons purpose is to be an image/media repository that anyone can use (commercial, Wikipedia, books, magazines or some blog somewhere) and therefore it is important that the definition of "our best" should recognise images that fully meet the Definition of Free Cultural Works of such works that Commons is built upon. Wikipedia is similarly a Free content encyclopaedia, so reuse of our material should be just as free (for anybody) as Commons. But the purpose of WP:FP is to celebrate great article illustrations and less about the image as a stand-alone item. A number of people in the Commons FP debate thought that licensing concerns should be a matter for upload-policy only, not the featured review process. Their argument didn't win on Commons but is stronger for WP. I don't agree with that argument and am not opposed to Raeky's proposal, but I'm concerned this will just cause a lot of heated discussion and no clear consensus: as Raeky says: "a stink".

I believe that the best next step from the move made at Commons:FP is to review upload policy at Commons and then see if the Wikipedias follow. They don't always follow Commons in this regard: en:wp hosts "fair use" images and images with "freedom of panorama" concerns, which wouldn't be allowed on Commons. -- Colin°^Talk 09:21, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Moreover, the threshold for consensus is often lower on Commons than on en.wiki. If you had a proposal here with the same votecount, it would have very little chance of being closed as successful. In fact, I was quite surprised at the result, and had I not voted (I was in favor of the ban), I would have closed it as unsuccessful. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 09:36, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Well it wasn't a vote and the weight and validity of the arguments was a large factor in the admin closing. In particular, the argument that consideration of the licence isn't or shouldn't be part of COM:FP was effectively declared invalid: consideration of the licence has always been explicitly part of the COM:FP, and Commons licencing policy/guidelines strongly discourage GFDL-only licensing. So putting the two together isn't rocket science.

The issue of GFDL-only licences was a festering sore on Commons FP. Such images would not infrequently be opposed by reviewers, which was met with angry responses from the uploader, but no consensus per image. It was clear (to me) that the Commons FP community needed clarity over the consensus opinion on this matter. This is why I created the Commons proposal even though I knew it would be a heated debate and possibly make me enemies for life :-). I'm not sure the same conditions of to the WP:FP community/discussions/reviews and so think the best next step would be policy review -- and that's something lots of folk agree on. Colin°^Talk 10:24, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

I'd just like to clarify though. While I don't license my images with GFDL 1.x only, I somewhat symapthise with those that do because I too would like to control commercial use in certain circumstances. I don't fully agree with the idea of all our content being completely free. I think it should be free for non-commercial/educational use, and negotiable for commercial use. I understand that this isn't in the spirit of Wikipedia. It's just my opinion, and I'm prepared to compromise for the benefit of all, so I publish my images with the suggested license. But I disagree that anyone who wishes to make commercial use more difficult is only doing so to funnel people towards paying for them. I think most people only wish to avoid commercial exploitation of their images. I see it as a bit distasteful that a big multinational corporation can harvest images from Wikipedia and use them to make massive profits in big advertising campaigns, and all they have to do is attribute and cite the license (potentially somewhere obscure, it seems). Not to mention that calling the images 'free for commercial use' allows lazy publishers to neglect to read the fine print, which happens frequently. Anyway, for all of that, really the point I was trying to make is that restricting commercial use doesn't necessarily equate to wanting to making money from the images, although I don't see how it would be immoral to do so. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 09:59, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I don't see anything wrong or immoral with making money from images or with wanting to use an -NC (no commerical) licence. Wanting to control or restrict the reuse of our works is a fairly normal attitude and a valid one. For example, nobody thinks commercial photographers should give away their work for free or novelists write for free. It is just that both Wikipedia and Commons sign up to the Definition of Free Cultural Works which requires free reuse by anyone. Uploading images to this site, or writing for Wikipedia, involve a donation of one's work and time and talents. And Wikimedia don't think one's donation should come with strings attached.

The issue doesn't just affect commerical reuse. A medical charity using one of our images in a two-page handout would, to conform to GFDL, have to append three pages of GFDL smallprint to be compliant. A scout club showing slides of famous landmarks as part of a quiz night, would have to interupt the evening to ensure everyone present had a chance to read the licence terms. It is simply a ridiculous licence developed for software documentation and was only ever used by Wikimedia because there was nothing better at the time. Its continued use (as a sole licence) on this project isn't really compatible with its aims. Colin°^Talk 10:24, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

That's the thing though, some of us don't agree with Wikipedia signing up to that kind of free reuse by anyone, but we contribute because we value the project and there really isn't an equivalently successful project in which to contribute to so it's either put up or shut up, and we (largely) shut up. But IMO it shouldn't have to be that way, and I think Wikipedia would be every bit the encyclopaedia that it currently is even if commercial reuse was more restricted. In fact, it would certainly have better content as a result of more advanced amateur/professional photographers feeling comfortable donating their images. I think a few little strings attached would be a sacrifice worth making for better content. After all, why do we really care about commercial reusers? They're commercial, why shouldn't they find their content on the free market?

I agree with you about how impractical GFDL is, but all it takes is for the potential reuser to contact the photographer to ask if an exception could be granted, as commonly happens with my images even when the CC-BY-SA 3.0 license is used. Usually I am happy to waive any and all restrictions if the use is reasonable. And I know that having to contact the copyright holder is a pain, which is why I think we should have more practical licenses that still respect non-commercial use. I know it'll never happen though. 'Tis a shame. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 12:22, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

(ec) It might just be because the definition of Free Cultural Works is modelled after the definition of Free Software, which came first. And with software, allowing commercial use is indispensible; otherwise, the free software community wouldn't have the support of companies Red Hat or Novell who contribute back to the community. But I agree, this analogy doesn't work quite so well with content, especially photographs, which are not created by constantly remixing others' content. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 12:29, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

The CC-NC licence is popular but contentious. There isn't a firm definition of what reuse would constitute "commercial". The classic example is someone using an image (or text) in a blog, which is supported by advertising. The blogger may think this is just a hobby and not commercial use whereas the rights holder may view the blog as no different to a news website like The Register or The Guardian. But I agree that allowing an -NC licence would open up a lot of images we can't otherwise get. It isn't always the photographer's choice: For example, a local zoo to me states that all photography must be for non-commercial use and charge about £200+ per hour for commerical photographers.

My understanding is that allowing an -NC licence on Wikipedia isn't legal given the share-alike terms of the existing licences. So there's no way Wikimedia can change this, even if they were inclined to (which they are not).

The "contact the photographer" problem is huge, though, and part of the reason why CC licences were developed: so a reuser does't have to ask for permission. If any of us one day throws a hissy fit and leaves (or expires through natural causes) then there would be nobody to ask. Commercial photographers have agencies and the like to handle such requests, and permission can be dealt with and charged for long after the photographer has breathed his last. Colin°^Talk 13:09, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

I see your point regarding what constitutes non-commercial, but to be honest I'm not particularly concerned by the hobbyist blogger and whether he can use my photos without asking permission. ;-) I'm contributing primarily to benefit Wikipedia, not Wikimedia Commons, but the suggested upload location is Commons. And since there's no significant difference in what licenses are acceptable between Commons and Wikipedia, there's no additional advantage to uploading to Wikipedia anyhow. It seems to me that part of the problem is the shared goals of Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons when really they serve completely different purposes. As for the consequences of using the share-alike licences alongside NC images, well that's quite a web they've got themselves caught in. :-) I'd like to think they knew what they were doing when the first conceived of using the licenses, but part of me wonders if some of the legal consequences have only been discovered as Wikipedia developed. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 13:30, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

I do not feel that FPC, either here or on Commons, has any business declaring things not really free when they are still widely considered free by the community. Until the rules on the site are changed, I don't think we should be changing our rules. J Milburn (talk) 13:21, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, it does seem like the aim is to try to change the site rules by proxy - starting with the Featured Pictures project, which drives a lot of the contributions to both Wikipedia and Commons. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 13:30, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
• Well here's the difference between WP and Commons. Because on Commons, the GFDL-as-sole-licence hasn't been considered really free for quite some time. All of the image policy and guideline pages ask uploaders to not use GFDL-only in the strongest possible terms. What Commons has't yet got round to is actually banning this practice. Whereas on WP, the image use policy says "For a list of possible licenses which are considered "free enough" for Wikipedia, see Wikipedia:Image copyright tags", which lists the GFDL without any warnings or protests. Whether that equates to "widely considered free by the community" is doubtful imo but certainly weakens the argument for WP:FP taking a stand. We all know that nobody chooses to offer GFDL as the sole licence unless they are trying to control and restrict who can reuse the work, and while folk may or may not sympathise with that, it doesn't alter the fact that it isn't what Wikimedia is about. Anyway, I don't think this proposal is going to fly on WP:FP. Colin°^Talk 14:24, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
  • don't have much time right now to respond but I strongly feel that if we put content on our front page it should be free for commercial use, like someone printing a calendar with the image, that's not feasible with this license so it's a problem IMHO. — raekyt 19:59, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

• I really don't understand the screwy thinking that says we should be making donations to multimillion dollar businesses. It's utterly contemptible. As with a few of the others who have commented here I have donated hundreds of photos to Wiki over the years and these have been used throughout the world. In most cases I have no problems with their use. Nearly all are GFDL licensed and I use that to try to maintain a minuscule modicum of control over the images, although this is fairly ineffective. I know of many cases where people have freely appropriated my images totally ignoring all licensing requirements, not asking for permission, not attributing me as the creator, nor displaying the appropriate license, and there are undoubtedly countless more of which I don't know. I have not the time, energy, or inclination to pursue these.

However I have also received many requests for re-use of my images, and as with Diliff and others almost always freely grant these, totally waiving any licensing requirements except perhaps an attribution as author. This especially applies for non-commercial or educational uses. For commercial uses sometimes I charge a small fee - put simply, if someone's making money off my images then I deserve some return. Most recently I was paid a small amount by an American author even though I offered him use of the image in question for free - he said he had been legally threatened by a big corporation in the past for a claimed copyright violation and was now scared of litigation so wanted to pay something to make sure things were legally clear (yep, these are the type of corporations who go after small time writers and artists that you want us to be donating our work to. Talk about double standards. Sheesh!).

As I said above the GFDL license is just a way to try to maintain a tiny bit of control. Simply there are some people I don't want using my images. I would not for example grant free use of my images for 'educational' uses (read anti-educational uses) for things such as a neo-nazi tract, a creationist tome, or the work of a climate change denialist. I would also not sell my images to these people. Having said which I have allowed free use for an almost certainly fundamentalist christian book about the life of Jesus, but in this case it was the licensing that allowed me to determine whether the usage sounded to be offensive in nature or not, i.e., at least I was able to make the decision. Similarly I would not sell my images to the tobacco industry or environmentally destructive corporations for use in their advertising or propaganda, even if they offered me hundreds of dollars. Again using the GFDL license gives me a small amount of protection against this. Yet you would have us giving all our work away to these morally bankrupt concerns without an even vague way of controlling it. This is bizarre.

I'm not just talking hypotheticals either. About a year ago I found an image by a former prolific Wiki picture contributor on a rabid far right-wing ultraconservative website. I pointed him to the image which they had purloined without permission off Wiki. He was able to get them to remove the image, but only because he could direct them to the GFDL licensing which they had totally ignored. In your dream-world he should have no say in his image being associated with their messages of hate. I completely disagree. This sort of nonsense if what drives people away from this place. --jjron (talk) 11:15, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Please don't characterise other folks opinions as "screwy thinking". Just as with politics and religion, intelligent people can hold opposing views without insulting one another. Not everyone agrees with your stance that "if someone's making money off my images then I deserve some return". Writing or taking pictures for Wikipedia is supposed to be a donation, no strings attached. The folk that created the GFDL, like the folk behind Wikipedia and Commons, wanted their work used without restrictions on who could use it. The GFDL was never intended as a NC licence nor one where photographers could pick and choose reuse based on ethical or religious discrimination. The GNU/Linux OS is a classic example of freely donated work that is used by everyone from the big bad banks, tobacco firms as well as medical and relief charities. Your browser is probably free and you are free to use it for reading an encyclopaedia or watching porn or reading scripture or chatting with your friends. Samsung and Apple make billions from selling you phones based on free software. My point is that plenty folk are happy to craft something and make it free to use, reuse and no strings attached. It is just as valid a choice as to say you want total control over who uses your images, though it does sound like this choice is making you unhappy and angry. That choice is much more aligned with a fully copyright system of publication and quite removed from the foundations upon which this site and Commons are built. If folk want a "for Wikipedia only" licence then they should explicitly demand it rather than abuse the GFDL. It wont happen, of course. Colin°^Talk 23:22, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Template:FPCArchiveBar

I've made some tweaks to this to simplify maintenance. It's currently good until 2018, and should be relatively easy to keep updated. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 11:24, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/File:Entrance_Hall_of_Mr_Chas._Green's_house,_Savannah_Ga,_now_occupied_as_Head_Quarters_by_Gen_Sherman.jpg

Any chance of a few more eyes on this? There hasn't been a single vote yet. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 01:50, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/File:Bangalore Panorama.jpg

Your comments would be greatly appreciated [[Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/File:Bangalore Panorama.jpg |here]]. Thanks --Muhammad(talk) 19:11, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

It looks like a clear promote. Just needs a day or two to sort out the angles. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 01:33, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Young_donkey#Young_donkey

I don't think this was closed correctly. Quibbling over a couple hours - when, thanks to the page being purged, the "do not vote" tag hadn't even shown at the time - is not good policy, and FP has never paid much attention to that.

If it had opposes, or was otherwise controversial, sure, but not promoting something with 5 supports and no opposes due to timing wastes everyone's time on renominations. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 16:02, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree (not because I'm the nominator). There is no a real reason to fail this nomination at this situation, except of over-bureaucracy. Tomer T (talk) 16:30, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Bureaucracy is always used like a dirty word, but that's not what this is. We used to have lots of problems with inconsistent closures, where loose timings and closer discretion led to misunderstandings and unfairness. We simply have to be consistent. In this case, it was a support only three hours late. Next time, maybe it's five, and this nomination is held up as a precedent. What's another couple of hours? And then what's a few more? Next time, maybe it will be an oppose coming in only an hour late that sinks a nomination that was due to pass. What do we do then? If we ignore the closing time on this nom for three hours, wouldn't we do the same for an oppose after one hour? And why wouldn't we? Seriously guys, this is a slippery slope. Either we stick by what we say - that votes are not accepted after the nomination is over - or we have a potential mess on our hands, like we used to have. I think Armbrust made the right call with his closure. I know it's a pisser but it makes sense. Julia\^talk 16:28, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, then, let's waste everyone's time and immediately renominate it. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 18:52, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• Comment I have to agree with Julia on this one. This instance would be setting a bad precedent. This can lead to the promotion of pictures that have not fairly been elected. The party who voted after the nomination ended really shouldn't have, knowing it's not really honest to promote a picture that did not pass after the nomination ended. Problem solved, not really an issue any longer, but I might as well add my two cents. Dusty777 01:09, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

The FPC page is often a couple hours out of date if not purged or edited. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 04:37, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

• As someone who never really supported the strict timings or the timer, I think Julia's right (in her argument about this closure, I don't necessarily agree with her statements about old practices leading to lots or problems or unfairness in the past). With the timer in place it should be adhered to, or you're heading for bush-lawyering down the track. Perhaps the saddest thing is this stink is being raised over an image that I'd suggest isn't even FP quality. --jjron (talk) 15:09, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Burn,_baby,_burn

Any chance of a few more eyes here? Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 16:32, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

• Hey Adam, ever heard of this? Dusty777 01:46, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
  • As I recall, that's for the last day or two only, which isn't that useful if the votes are very slow to come because it's Christmas and everyone's busy, so you've only had one non-nominator vote out of four in the last week. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 05:08, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Holiday extension

If we're going to be strict about closings, I'd suggest we add 2-5 days to the timer over the Christmas period, when votes have tended to be much slower. This can be done relatively easily by a temporary edit to Template:FPCnom/VotingEnds

Specifically:

{{#ifexpr: {{#time: U }} > {{{1}}}

to

{{#ifexpr: {{#time: U|now+3 days }} > {{{1}}} </nowiki>

(for example). Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 13:39, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

• I'd Support say a 5 day extension maybe even 7 day, starting say this weekend until maybe the weekend of the 5th... reasonable to expect far less participation during these few weeks. — raekyt 18:02, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose If there is less participation, than likely there will be less nominations too. A notice at the top of the current section about possible lower participation should be more than enough. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 22:20, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
  • But that argument only really works if voters only vote on a predetermined number of nominations regardless of how many are available in total. I don't think that's the way it works at all, I think voters vote mainly on nominations that interest them regardless of how many there are, so with lower participation, it's much more likely that some nominations will fail to get enough votes (5) for a result. It's not just theory, this has typically happened each year during the Christmas period. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 13:05, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
• Support I have no objection --Muhammad(talk) 15:19, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
• Support Effective immediately. The page, in terms of reviews, has been very quiet this week. Another 5 days would help ensure noms got the positive or negative response they need. Colin°^Talk 15:53, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Comment: In this quite period, it is important that folk review as much as they can, rather than just going "meh" and passing. Also, if you are nominating please review at least 5 other pictures -- it is only fair as that's what you need. -- Colin°^Talk 15:53, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Although I kinda agree with that, I generally don't comment on pictures that I think have no chance of passing unless I really want to chime in... doesn't seem like a good use of time to comment on them. :P — raekyt 05:48, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Right. I've implemented this. During the five day extension, it's displayed as such:

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes.

And switches back to the normal message after that five days:

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes.

I'd suggest we go back to normal (by simply rolling back my edits to Template:FPCnom/VotingEnds) no later than January 5th.

Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 22:55, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Just to check, is everyone alright with all the extensions abruptly end sometime[*] on January 5th, and that all noms that were in the extension period end at that point? Better to decide this while it doesn't actually affect any specific nominations. =) I don't think that there's any point mentioning this in the template before January, though. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 01:34, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

[*] As soon as someone remembers to rollback my changes.

I did not see this conversation before you made the change, but I'm fine with it. It is true that contributions to this page are always down this time of year. Chick Bowen 05:59, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Adam, that is really not ideal because it means that pictures that are nominated later are going to end all at once which will be confusing at best and means that even with fewer holiday nominations there will be a backlog on January 5th (or thereabouts). The only solution I can think of would be to substitute the template on every nomination during this time and then stop and revert on January 5th so all nominations within the extension period are treated the same, but that's probably more trouble than it's worth. Cat-fivetc ---- 11:19, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion this is hardly an ideal solution because it mucks things up around the end date but it's better than having a crisis of insufficiently voted on FPCs during this time and the only alternative I can think of (see above) would be impossibly complex to do. Cat-fivetc ---- 13:31, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, I wouldn't say the only alternative. We could do something like gradually reduce the length of the extension, at a rate of, say, 1 day out of every two. I can see an easy way to code that, it's basically instead of "now-5 days", you replace it with now - 5 days + (day of month/2) days starting January. Probably need an #expr in there, and you'd need an if to turn it off on the 10th, but it's doable. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 14:53, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Probably not worth the effort, as long as we make sure on the fifth or whatever that no nominations are cut short sooner than they'd be regularly. Cat-fivetc ---- 01:56, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

It shouldn't be possible to reduce it below the normal length, unless we really screw things up. . Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 05:45, 22 December 2012 (UTC)\

Never underestimate the human capacity to really screw things up. The corollary to Murphy's Law, which tends to go well with this kind of human/cosmic nature, is that if there is a particularly important time when you don't want things to go wrong, that's when things will go wrong. Cat-fivetc ----

Well, all that needs done is wait until January 5th, then revert the template back to this version. Nothing else needs to change. Hopefully we can handle that safely. =)

It will mean that we have a lot of nominations to close when that happens, but even if we're lazy and take a few days to catch up, that's not really a major problem. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 11:06, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Note that if we intend on making this a permanent annual occurrence, it would be worth it to just code it in. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 23:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Quite doable, but let's wait until after this finishes, so we can do a post mortem. I'd like to discuss exact dates a bit. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 05:44, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Good idea. Regarding the actual dates, this is my opinion: There are 10 days between 12/24 and 1/2, inclusive. During the period from 0:00 on 12/24 to 0:00 on 1/3 (UTC), we pretend that time passes twice as slow. For example, an FPC begun at 0:00 on 12/15 should end at 0:00 on 12/24, just as usual. But an FPC begun at 8:00 on 12/15 should end at 16:00 on 12/24; an FPC begun at 0:00 on 12/24 should end at 0:00 on 1/7; an FPC begun at 0:00 on 12/27 should end at 12:00 on 1/8; etc. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:51, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Christmas problems

As expected, there's currently a lot of images about to enter the extension without sufficient voting having happened. Can everyone make sure to look at the images listed in FPC urgents and vote? I'll try to keep it updated. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 11:50, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

FPCs needing feedback
	Lauren Bacall
	Eastern amberwing
	Wikipe-tan and Commons-tan

2013 WikiCup

Hi, this is just a note to say that the 2013 WikiCup will be starting soon, with signups remaining open throughout January. The WikiCup is an annual competition in which competitors are awarded points for contributions to the encyclopedia, focussing on audited content (such as good articles, featured articles, featured pictures and such) and high importance articles. It is open to new and old Wikipedians and WikiCup participants alike. Even if you don't want to take part, you can sign up to receive the monthly newsletters. Rules can be found here. Any questions can be directed to the WikiCup talk page. Thanks! J Milburn (talk) 18:54, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Just an FYI

John Jay portrait by Gilbert Stuart and everything below it on the list ends at 0000 on January 5th. The next one up on the list, Ricardo Arjona at Managua, Nicaragua, ends at 0555. That is assuming I did my figuring correctly. Cat-fivetc ---- 11:44, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Are we still good ending the extension on the 5th?

Does the 5th still sound like a good time to end the extension, or should we extend it another week? Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 10:58, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. It's an arbitrary date (then again what isn't) but hopefully enough people will be active again in time to participate. Cat-fivetc ----

What do you think about dropping it to a three-day extension at that point? It worries me that votes still seem a little slow. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 14:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Request for Comments: Dar es Salaam

Hi, an editor and I can not come to an agreement over which is the better image for the Dar es Salaam infobox. I have set up a RfC and as part of the publicizing, (and since one of the images is featured,) I thought I could ask here if FPC reviewers would give their opinions there. Talk:Dar es Salaam#Request For Comments Infobox Image. Thanks --Muhammad(talk) 16:54, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Adobe giving away CS2

Just a heads up to everyone here, you might well be interested in this: Gizmodo: Grab Photoshop and CS2 For Absolutely Free, Right Now --Fir0002 01:49, 8 January 2013 (UTC)