Talk:Aptronym

Crapper

Resolved

You've put the horse before the cart. "Thomas Crapper, maker of Vicrian flush toilets" is not an aptronym of the same vein as the others listed. The term "crap" became synonymous with defication AS A RESULT of Mr. Crapper's occupation. It wasn't just a coincidental name to be born.

Leave it, cut it, make a cute little side note... whatever. I just felt it appropriate to clarify.

[--anon.]

Sorry, not true. The recorded use of the word in that sense dates to 1846, when Mr Crapper was 10 years old. See the article on Thomas Crapper. -HFM.

Tony Snow

Why is Tony Snow listed but not John Snow?

Is "Tony Snow" only listed because of the colloquial meaning of "snowjob"? That would be kind of lame... AnonMoos 15:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Snow job. Hmm... I guess it passes. ~ Rollo44 00:38, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Unless there is some proof that Tony Snow is "covering anything up," of which I am unaware, it would need to be cited. As such, bye-bye Tony Snow. Cliffietheman

Wikified as part of the wikification drive.

Resolved

Wikified as part of the wikification drive. KarenAnn 14:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Rev. Sinner

Are "Cardinal Sin" and "Rev. Richard Sinner" actually ironic, considering that Christian theology holds that all men are sinners? - Calmypal (T) 03:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Thusly all the more fitting!

Merge proposal

Nominative determinism should be merged into this article. They are largely duplicative, and the combined material will be better than both articles separately. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 00:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

My personal opinion is that it should go the other way; we ought to merge this article into Nominative determinism. But that's just me. Thor Rudebeck 06:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The articles would seem to suggest that they are different things. I had not heard of aptronyms before but they seem to primarily refer to fictional names. The other article is about an alleged or humourous theory that roles are assumed according to one's name. It is widely discussed in papers and journals and deserves an article. I has become something of a boffins game to find them in technical journals. I just found all this on the random page, sorry if I am late to discussion. - Fred 14:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Support: They overlap in subject but not in article content, and thus would make a merged article far superior to either of the individual articles.–Skomorokh 16:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

They should stay separate as Fred suggests, due to the largely fictional nature of aptronyms vs. the happenstance nature of nominative determinism (which makes it funnier). Though they would both benefit from expansion to become proper encyclopedia articles.Andybuckle 08:58, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't nominative determinism require (or at least imply) causation, much in the sense of "giving a dog a bad name"? Aptronymy would seem to involve coincidence rather than causation (or at least punning when the named individuals are fictional). 62.196.17.197 (talk) 16:51, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Joe Strummer

Should Joe really be included, as his real name is John Mellor, he just gave himself the name Joe Strummer after his playing style? Pennywisepeter 15:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The same goes for Alicia Keys; that wasn't her birth name. Surely these names should be verified for them to be considered aptronyms. Thefamouseccles 15:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe that without Joe "Strummer" on the list, Alicia "Keys" shouldn't also be there. User:Guest 19:56, 22 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.200.193 (talk)

An aptronym is not necessarily the "given" name. To be considered an aptronym, the name must merely be reflected as a name that, for whatever reason, is especially appropriate. Wikiwikikid (talk) 15:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

J. P. Losman, Bills quarterback

Is it appropriate to add J. P. Losman, current NFL quarterback for the Buffalo Bills, as his name is synonymous with his team's performance since joining ("loss man"), or is it more irony? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edgriebel (talk • contribs) 13:08, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

It's not an aptronym, it's a soundalike / lookalike. Even if his name were " J. P. Loser", it would still be a subjective view of his team's performance in a current sports season. Deiz talk 13:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Charlie Spikes, former Major League Baseball player

What does the term "spike" have to do with baseball? If he were a volleyball or football player, the name would be an aptronym, but baseball? Am I missing something? — DIEGO ^talk 18:45, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

"Spikes" are the names of the shoes worn by baseball players because of the small spikes on the bottom of the soles (for traction). Keeper | 76 14:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Lack of specific association

I think that aptonyms must be quite specific. I don't agree with the inclusion of the following:

• George Best: The word "best" may apply to him (in someone's opinion), but it doesn't have anything to do with football; it doesn't tie in to any aspect of George Best's specific individual achievements.
• Eric Gagne: He may be a winner, but the word doesn't tie him with any specific individual achievement either.
• Mario Lemieux - Lemieux means "the best" in French. Same complaint; the association is not specific enough.

As an aside:

• Tiger Woods. It is interesting to see the mention, but somehow he needs a partner (does Jeremy Irons play golf?) :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.209.46 (talk) 05:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Organizations?

I've had a brief discussion with Saltation on his talk page and mine regarding the inclusion of BAAPS here. Saltation added it, I removed it, we discussed the removal, and it has now been added back in by Saltation. instead of just removing it again, I'd like other input regarding organizations names - do they fit here? Keeper | 76 23:20, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

No, they don't. Company names are chosen.. aptronyms are inherently coincidental, not selected. Deiz talk 00:25, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

• If that was correct, fictional aptronyms could not exist. Yet they are widely cited.
• Probably better in context to say "Unintended", not "Coincidental". Mens rea. I agree that intentional aptronyms should not be bundled with "genuine" aptronyms. (For example, Alicia Keys and Joe Strummer could be reinstated in a section labelled "Deliberate Aptronyms" or somesuch, although the extant mingling of fictional and nonfictional aptronyms then becomes problematic.)
• This particular aptronym happens to be both coincidental and unintended. Speaking to the element of intention: does anyone seriously think a brittle brit "professional" group would deliberately choose to associate that cliched euphemism with their professional standing and their public brand? When the group was put together specifically to push that public brand? Check their media presence if you think they're not serious.

As I said in my initial response to your post on my talk page, Deiz (which I noted used a different reasoning to your post here), I'm not particularly motivated to correct this deletion. It's hardly central to the topic.

However, I do not regard it as appropriate to justify that deletion by warping the definition.

Saltation (talk) 22:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Why is "Chip" Jett included but "Chip" Reese was removed?

Poker player Charles "Chip" Jett was included, so I added David "Chip" Reese. Why was Chip Reese removed but not Chip Jett? That makes no sense. 68.45.106.216 (talk) 05:39, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Chip is a shortened version of Charles. Like William/Bill or James/Jim. As for David Reese, "Chip" is just a nickname... Not an Aptronym. Wikiwikikid (talk) 15:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

So then Chip Beck the golfer should be good since its shortened from Charles Beck. I'm adding him to the listRacerx11 (talk) 15:20, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

File path

The term "/path/to/file" is used in some documentation. Isn't this an aptronym, too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paddor (talk • contribs) 15:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

If a file existed there, I suppose you could argue that, but no operating system I've heard of has that directory or file. Mikkel (talk) 17:26, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Arsene Wenger

Just a suggestion, he is the manager of Arsenal Football Club. He also used to be a footballer and Winger is a position. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.240.12.118 (talk) 14:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Michael Guest

Michael Guest was the US ambassador in Romania. I think it's quite obvious that his name is an aptronym. Any opinions against? Reject 666 6 (talk) 05:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, mainly that it is not an aptronym. Michael Ambassador yes, Guest absolutely not. Deiz talk 13:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Judge Learned Hand, Amelia Earhart

Judge Learned Hand was famous for writing (by hand, I presume) his opinions, many of which are still cited in court cases.

Amelia Earhart, pronounced "air heart," loved to fly.

And if I complain enough can I get into the Spanish version of this article? My last name is pronounced like "quejo," which means "I complain" or "he complained." :-) --TDKehoe (talk) 20:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

"Soundalikes" are not acceptable. If a person was truly notable for complaining, or was the notable head of a notable complaint-related body, such as the Independent Police Complaints Commission, it could be considered. Deiz talk 03:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Finnish examples

There are two Finnish examples that come to mind: Arno Kasvi (brother of Jyrki Kasvi), botanist ("plant") and Pekka Pouta, meteorologist ("fair weather"). 194.100.223.164 (talk) 12:27, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Aptronym vs nominative determinism

If I understand the definition (looking at the Encyclopaedia Britannica on which the lead is based) it suggests the difference is:

• Aptronym - the name comes after the characteristics, that is this is essentially a literary term (as you can define a character and then fit the name to them) and other examples might include the characters in Charles Dickens (Murdstone is given on the article) and Molière, as well as the Carry On films.
• Nominative determinism - the name leads to the job/character

However, the examples here seem to be largely of nominative determinism. Now I might have misunderstood the difference but there seems to be a disjunction between the lead and the EB definition and the examples. If they are examples of aptronyms then this article should probably be merged with nominative determinism but it strikes me there is a clear difference even if the examples don't suggest it. (Emperor (talk) 21:11, 7 April 2009 (UTC))

Ryder Hesjedal

Suggestion: Ryder Hesjedal, the Canadian cyclist. To be honest, I'm a little surprised it isn't here already. P (talk) 17:33, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Original Trivia

OK, can someone justify how the list of "examples" is not both a bunch of trivia (discouraged) and original research (not allowed)? -67.39.251.254 (talk) 20:17, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

No. Lampman (talk) 20:44, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

No as in it's not, or no as in there's no possible justification? —烏Γ ^{(kaw at me)}, 04:40, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

It's all OR without a good ref. Perhaps some are fair, but something like Bobbit to me seems OR/stretching the definition. Malick78 (talk) 20:53, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

William Dement, professor of psychiatry

Just wondering, is the William Dement listed here the same person as the William C. Dement, the Stanford professor and sleep research pioneer? If so, I think its still good. I found a couple sites confirming he's a professor of psychiatry. To whomever included him, the problem is we usually use a link to the person's article if they have one. He has one, but when you go to it, it mostly talks about his association with sleep research and doesn't mention him being a professor of psychiatry. So it doesn't really support his name being a aptronym. I won't remove it, but someone might consider this one a borderline aptronym.

I should mention the WP article on Stanford University School of Medicine has him listed under "notable faculty" as "William C. Dement - Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, pioneer in sleep research." which does support an aptronym.

Anyway, should we go ahead and link the name to William C. Dement? And if so, should we add to his article that he is a professor of psychiatry? Racerx11 (talk) 02:35, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd definitely agree in both cases. —烏Γ ^{(kaw at me)}, 04:39, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of unreferenced names, I'd also vote for finding a ref for Jacques Moron, Lara Weller, and Kent Wells. —烏Γ ^{(kaw at me)}, 04:47, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Done, on both the Dement issues. I remember seeing on some site a "history" of the different Lara Croft models that included Weller, so I think there is stuff out there on her. I don't know about the other two you mention.Racerx11 (talk) 05:34, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Red Links with no External References

I don't know how trafficked this page is, but I figured I would post here before deleting the fairly substantial number of red links that have no citation whatsoever, like So-and-so is the owner of Such-and-such company, which I will do in a week from now. JesseRafe (talk) 20:20, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Earl Boykins?

Maybe I'm missing something, but should Earl Boykins, just because he's short, be listed on this page? I'm assuming the reference is to Boykins? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trevorself (talk • contribs) 19:01, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Merge

Isn't it about time that the Charactonym article was merged into this one? Dadge (talk) 22:04, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Barry White

Inaptonym example? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.102.171.147 (talk) 06:03, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Bobbitt

Surely the term came after crime, not before. Astronaut (talk) 16:05, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Bob means to cut short or shorten by cutting. Actually a very old term. Certain hair cuts were once called "bob-cuts" and the old song "Camptown Races" from the 1800's contains the line, "I'll bet my money on de bob-tail nag". "Bob-tail nag" here means a horse with its tail cropped or cut short.

so bob (cut short) + it (penis) = Bobbitt.--Racerx11 (talk) 01:03, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Places?

Does this trope apply to places as well as individuals? Grimsby, Slough and Crawleigh in the UK all spring to mind ... as would Bangkok and Phuket in Thailand, albiet for different reasons. 62.196.17.197 (talk) 16:53, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Good name, but not quite an Aptronym

How about the equal opportunity person at a large company I used to work for in Chicago: Juanita Wong! I think is is one of the most perfect names:jobs relationships, but not an Aptronym. WardXmodem (talk) 00:59, 8 April 2013 (UTC)