Talk:Domestic violence against men

Disputes and Concerns

Question: Why is male on male domestic violence unmentioned in this article? If nothing else, I believe it would be helpful to mention male-on-male violence, even if just putting a reference to an article on homosexual relationships. FrozenPurpleCube 04:34, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

• I share FrozenPurpleCube's concern about the absence of any mention of domestic violence in male homosexual relationships. I think it's a serious problem with the article. Additionally, I'd like to see citations, or at least named sources, for the statistics given throughout the article. I include "the following is a brief list of the primary reasons" as one of those, since if those are in fact reported as the 3 primary reasons, that conclusion must be based on some sort of study (survey, interviews, a focus group with men who are abused in their relationships, etc.), and that's citable. Besides, the folk who did that study deserve credit. Next, the third bullet (this entry needs reformatting, by the way) in "Characteristics" makes a paragraph's worth of assertions without citing any source to suggest that they're fact, or even just the hypothesis/theory, right or wrong, of a non-original-researcher. Add to that that reading it, I found the language indistinguishable from someone grinding an ax, and I felt I was justified in tagging it as I did. The Literate Engineer 04:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Copyrights

A large portion of this article appears to have been copied verbatim from [1]. I'm replacing some of the sections with non-copyrighted content, and attempting to add additional sources to the article, but the copyrighted content concerns me. --HarmonicFeather 01:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Domestic Vice against men

I suggest another article. Women use sex, love and 'affection' to take men to the cleaners. Women also use relational aggression, misandrous shame and other covert, cunning and clever tactics to rape men inside and outside marriages. We need to show how women use and abuse female forms of power to control, coerce and ultimately 'collect' (to take unearned power from) men. Marriage in a fascist-feminist legal, and social and sexual context is a terrible deal for most men because there is no acknowlegement about much less legal sanction against female forms of domestic aggression which often involve covert (and legal) 'uses' rather than overt abuses. Anacapa 03:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

To imagine that men and women use the SAME forms of domestic, sexual, social, political or legal aggression as men do seems absurd given how different the sexes indeed are. I suggest a new article showing common forms of vice in domestic situations. Domestic vice occurs when wives use sex for power and control purposes rather than for 'love'. I suggest the Iranian documentary feature film Ten for a classic conversation between a married woman and a street prostitute. In essence after being shamed for being a prostitute (how could you!?) by the 'nice' married woman, the prostitute regains her composure and says "I just do retail what you do wholesale"...and successfully turns the tables on her shamer. To me, Domestic Vice is a potent but covert form of domestic aggression that often provokes but DOES NOT CAUSE domestic violence in men. I believe we need to show how female domestic violence and vice differs from male forms here and/or in a separate article on Domestic Vice.Anacapa 03:30, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Misandry, Man-hating and Violence/Vice against men

I added a piece I wrote up from the Misandry article. I think it might explain why so many men are hesistant to speak up about abuses by women and other men too. Could someone adapt this content to the article? Anacapa 03:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Merge

Please discuss the merger of this article into the parent Domestic violence article over at Talk:Domestic violence. (or here, but split discussions can be confusing)--Andrew c 15:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I think merging is a good idea. Much of this article is relevant for the cases of both male and female victims. --Coppertwig 03:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Should also merge 'violence against women'-page into domestic violence in order to avoid double standards. 86.50.88.16 (talk) 20:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Until the 'violence against women' article is agreed to be merged with the domestic violence article, this one will remain separate. 124.148.224.120 (talk) 02:40, 1 July 2013 (UTC) Sutter Cane

deleted PENIS

Maybe the link PENIS used to point to something else, but at the moment it simply redirected to an article on the male sex organ, so it seemed out of context and I deleted it. --Coppertwig 03:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I am having trouble with

this piece of the lede.

" Similar to a hate crime, this type of violence targets a specific group with the victim's gender as a primary motive."

For example, in domestic violence, the violence does not necessarily occur because of the male's gender. It occurs because a couple (let's stick to one man one woman for now) has a fight or something. I think this phrase is problematic and should go and I will remove it if someone doesn't show up to explain it. Carptrash (talk) 22:08, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

It is definitely problematic, for the reasons you state, and it is unsourced. I'd support its removal, unless it can be reliably sourced. Cheers, Dawn Bard (talk) 22:11, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

For the record, I did remove it once and the editor who had added it put it back. I have been cautioned (appropriately) for being uncivil towards other editors around here, so I am being cautious about getting into an edit war without troops behind me. Since, unlike some of the other editors, I don't drag all my friends along, I try to rely on folks who are already here. Such as yourself. The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance. Carptrash (talk) 22:47, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Carptrash. It's quite dubious to say that domestic violence (against men or women) is similar to a hate crime and primarily motivated by the victim's gender. Kaldari (talk) 03:49, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

see [2] which discusses this, and the context of the VAWA act, which opens the door to hate crimes prosecution, even in cases of domestic violence, if it can be shown that gender was a motivating factor. --Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 04:04, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Why does the article say the following? "Furthermore, the NIJ contends that national surveys supported by NIJ, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Bureau of Justice Statistics that examine more serious assaults do not support the conclusion of similar rates of male and female spousal assaults." That's actually the exact opposite of what the CDC concludes in the NISVS. In fact, there are a number of such statements in this article that are just factually incorrect. Seems like there is a bit of a pattern of claims that are in fact not true, and even some of the references footnoted on this page actually contract what they're suppose to be footnoting. This is just one example. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.25.124.50 (talk) 04:30, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Unbalanced?

Would the editor who tagged this article as Unbalanced care to indicate specifically the offending bits, and we'll see what can do to fix it. Otherwise I'll remove the tag. JQ (talk) 01:53, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, please remove the tag. I did not see any bias, just straightforward, well documented findings of facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.198.76.110 (talk) 18:08, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Sources

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/women-relationship-terrorists-140806687.html#gLVFrDC Arkon (talk) 21:36, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Just added it. Memills (talk) 05:13, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Gender Symmetry

A good article so far. Could more references to gender symmetry be added? Specifically, Fiebert et.al. discuss gender symmetry to a degree not seen in many other publications, and Straus points to gender symmetry systematically being weeded out of historic studies, despite the actual raw findings confirming gender symmetry in relational violence. References here: https://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V71-Straus_Thirty-Years-Denying-Evidence-PV_10.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.72.32.206 (talk) 03:24, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

That's fortuitous timing! I'm actually working on an overhaul of the entire article at the moment in which, amongst other things, I greatly expand the section on gender symmetry, both in terms of scholars who argue for it (such as Fiebert, Straus, Archer, Cook, Dutton etc) and those who argue against it (such as Kimmel, Dobash & Dobash, Yllö, Worcester etc). I've added a lot of references to the section, expanded the controversy surrounding the CTS and included info on implications for treatment. I should be good to go in a week or so. Bertaut (talk) 04:02, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

It strikes me rather strange that gender symmetry is presented somehow as a "controversial" issue in the United States, as it seems it's one of the only countries in the western world where it's considered "controversial". The same way I find it strange that studies, even from the U.S are discarded and texts are removed from the article. CDC stated already in 2010 that men suffer equally much of IPV as women do, if not more. Studies from the Most Gender Equal AND Least Corrupted Countries in the world show beyond a doubt the numbers are very similar and in support of Gender Symmetry when in comes to IPV in Iceland [3], Finland [4], Sweden [5], Norway[6] and Denmark [7]. Similar results from USA & Canada [8][9]. Results from Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany can easily be googled. All the aforementioned European countries confirm the validity of Gender Symmetry when it comes to IPV. The studies tend to be in the national languages, so I will not use them as sources in the article, but I added a couple of links to U.S CDC and ResearchGate.Prefixcaz (talk) 00:27, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

what is the deal with wanting to add content on symmetry? why the need to compare at all? It smacks of carrying an agenda into WP. Just discuss the relevant data and let it speak for itself. Jytdog (talk) 01:20, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

As I wrote above, the article text says "highly disputed" giving a completely wrong and biased picture of domestic violence against men. It seems to be "highly disputed" only in the U.S. Above I have provided links to studies from several countries and you are bluntly discarding them. Would you care to explain why? I truly hope we get some objective observers for certain articles on Wikipedia. I'm afraid campaigns like this [[10]] could be one of the reasons for the bias. One of the main pillars of Wikipedia is to give a neutral point of view, but it seems when it comes to domestic violence, it is highly biased and the articles do not reflect the consensus of the scientific community, even in the Western World.Prefixcaz (talk) 01:46, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Prefixcaz i am dealing with the actual edit you made. This page is for discussing the article, and it is not a forum for general discussion of the topic. Here are the problems with your edit:

1) you are adding content and sources to the lead that is not found in the body. per WP:LEAD, the lead is just a summary of the article.

2) The Hoff paper is a WP:PRIMARY source and advocacy piece, by a well-known advocate. This is not the kind of thing you should reach for in a controversial topic.

3) and i cannot even parse your 2nd reference, which is "Hoff, Bert (2014). "Intimate Partner Violence in the United States - 2010" (PDF). Aggression, Conflict and Peace Research. 4 (3): 155–163. Retrieved January 1, 2012." The citation for the CDC article to which you link is "Breiding, M.J., Chen J., & Black, M.C. (2014). Intimate Partner Violence in the United States — 2010. Atlanta, GA: National Center for Injury Prevention and Control,Centers for Disease Control and Prevention." per the document itself - see the 2nd page of the pdf. this source does not make the point you seem to want to make. You don't provide a page number so I don't know where in the source you believe your content is verified. Jytdog (talk) 01:51, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

1) There are numerous articles in Wikipedia, where the lead is accepted as the full article is allowed only to subscribers. The lead in this case states the essential.

2) This was removed after your unnecessary revert. You should have come to the talk page FIRST before reverting. Like I did. Please see the time for my first comment above. You replied nothing, just decided to revert.

3) You reverted AGAIN whilst I was still editing, so obviously all the correct numbering was not there yet. Still, the Hoff paper refers to the CDC study and all the info the Hoff paper refers to can be found in the CDC report, but you decided to start en editing war instead. You engaged in censorship, failed to comment on my post on the Talk-page before reverting and misused your admin rights by giving me a warning after TWO reverts, when Wikipedia rule says 3.

4) I sincerely hope we will have some help from objective observers, as I am perfectly capable and willing to show that the issue of gender symmetry is NOT "highly disputed" except perhaps in certain ideological groups with biases. It it WIDELY ACCEPTED in family policy for instance in the Most Gender Equal countries in the world. I will be more than happy to provide more evidence for this claim.Prefixcaz (talk) 02:05, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I can only guess what you might mean in your #1. What "subscribers" are you talking about? Jytdog (talk) 02:15, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

What subscribers? Oh, ok. I was under the impression that you are familiar with research pages in general. My mistake. Certain publications are not open for public, but only the lead can be read. The full article is only available to "subscribers","members" or whatever that publisher wants to call the ones who have access to the full data. But the lead is usually a summary of the study and covers the essential findings. There are several examples of that kind of leads being accepted as sources on Wikipedia, as long as the source is considered credible. I am under the impression that ResearchGate is a credible source and the University of Florida (2012) agrees with me. I am a bit surprised that you have been accepted as an admin if you were not familiar with this. In the "old days" this was a given for all of us, not only for the admins.Prefixcaz (talk) 02:35, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

of course i am familiar with research papers. When I was referring to the "lead" i was referring to the first section of the Wikipedia article we are discussing - the part above the table of contents. I even provided you a link to the guideline that describes what needs to go there. I will do it again: WP:LEAD. This is what I have been trying to say to you. you don't understand how this place works, and you are making fierce arguments that are just babble because you don't understand what was said to you. Please slow down. If somebody provides you a link to a policy or guideline, please read it and then come back and read what the person said. Things will start to make more and more sense, the more you do that. Jytdog (talk) 02:56, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

That is the second time you use ad hominem. Maybe I should give you a warning. The lead already contains a referral to a study done in Ireland. Please explain me how a study in Ireland can be there, but a study from U.S. CNC cannot. I advice you to stop with any personal remarks and stay respectful.Prefixcaz (talk) 03:04, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

You're fighting a losing battle here Prefixcaz. As someone who has conducted a great deal of research into gender symmetry in several western countries (USA, UK, Ireland, Spain, Italy, Portugal and Germany), to say it's accepted as fact in the western world is simply inaccurate. Perhaps it's accepted as fact in Scandanavia, but certainly not elsewhere. That's why, when I was writing the gender symmetry section of this article, I was very careful to a) make sure to acknowledge the controversial nature of the topic, b) include sources providing empirical data for both sides of the argument, and c) make sure to point out that even researchers who argue for gender symmetry (such as Straus and Archer for example) acknowledge that violence against women is a more serious and immediate problem. If you don't believe me, or if you are unwilling to accept the argument that gender symmetry is controversial, go ahead and email Murray A. Straus. Just Google him, and you'll get his email address. He's very happy to talk to people researching the subject. As regards your CDC source, you're correct in saying it reveals men experienced more IPV in 2010 than women. But it also says women experience considerably more IPV over their lifetimes, something which would need to be acknowledged if the data from the survey is to be included (and Jytdog is correct about not including it in the lede). And finally, Jytdog isn't an admin. Bertaut (talk) 02:41, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

thanks bertaut. the layers of dealing with the misconceptions of a passionate new editor who will not learn....Jytdog (talk) 02:59, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Third time going against a person. Now I strongly suggest you stick to the issue, not to a person. And as you see, I'm not exactly a "new editor". But passionate, yes for sure. I have a passion for neutral and scientific point of view, without ideologies. Prefixcaz (talk) 03:06, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Bertaut, I'm sure you can provide extraordinary evidence to such an extraordinary claim about gender symmetry and a "loosing battle". Please forgive me if I sound rude, but your statement of having "conducted a great deal of research" is not a valid argument. I'm sure you agree, if you have done any sort of research. I have provided studies from the Most Gender Equal Countries in the world, given examples from others and you would like me to discard all of them and just take your word for it? There are people who are disputing the issue, but the reasons for this "dispute" has been explained widely [[11]]. Let's stick to the scientific method and skip the empty talk. Please provide something to back up your words. Well, now knowing that Jytdog is not an admin, it explains what seems to me like difficulties in following the elemental pillars of Wikipedia.Prefixcaz (talk) 03:00, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

discretionary sanctions?

is this article subject to discretionary sanctions per Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Discretionary_sanctions? Jytdog (talk) 01:31, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

It's subject to Talk:Men's rights movement/Article probation. Flyer22 (talk) 03:09, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your contribution Flyer22. Would you kindly explain me how the above mentioned section is applicable, as 1) I have repeatedly told you that I am not supporting either men's rights movements nor any feminist movements and 2) I have provided you reliable studies and nobody has yet brought any newer studies to counter them. Plenty of claims and personal attacks, but no valid argumentation IMO. Our conversation can be found here [[12]]. I have also agreed to your proposition of objective outside help and promised to provide more evidence for my claims if so requested. I'm completely open to the idea of discussing this e.g. with your professor.Prefixcaz (talk) 03:39, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Whether you are or are not a men's rights editor, Talk:Men's rights movement/Article probation is clear that it applies to all men's rights pages and all men's rights-related pages. Like Jytdog stated to you, it seems that you never read the Wikipedia rule pages that you are pointed to. I have not referred you to any professor. Flyer22 (talk) 03:51, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

On the contrary, I read the pages very carefully. The issue is I don't agree with your interpretations of them. I have also repeatedly agreed to objective outside observers. Your claim of me breaking a guideline is not equivalent to me breaking a guideline. I'm sure you understand the difference. Thank you for your answer on the first point. Would you please also answer the more important second point I made, as that is about the actual issue. Why would you even try to prohibit any editor from referring to reliable studies, if they have not been disputed with newer studies?Prefixcaz (talk) 04:02, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

It is a waste of time for me to discuss anything with you on the topic of domestic violence and/or Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. As Jytdog and I have been explicitly clear about, you do not understand Wikipedia's policies and guidelines...and you are not showing that you are willing to understand them. The aforementioned discussion you had with me at the Intimate partner violence talk page, the discussion you had with Jytdog in the #Gender Symmetry section above, the discussion you had with Jytdog on your talk page, the message you left on Jytdog's user page and then talk page (as seen here and here), all of it speaks volumes about your inexperience with editing Wikipedia. I am not interested in discussing a thing with a WP:Newbie who shows no improvement. Keep violating Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and you will learn soon enough that you are the only one misinterpreting them. Flyer22 (talk) 04:19, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Yep, this and this say everything there is to know about your willingness to learn. And before you state anything to me about not being a WP:Newbie simply because of the years you've been registered with Wikipedia, I reiterate that you are indeed a WP:Newbie. Before coming back to Wikipedia on January 28, 2015, you edited Wikipedia twice in 2009 and sparingly in the years before that. You have a lot of catching up to do, even if you edited as an IP at times. Flyer22 (talk) 04:36, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

You keep saying I don't understand Wikipedia's guidelines, yet you fail to answer me why we should not write neutral articles, but instead use biased texts, when several international studies say differently. How do you justify certain Wikipedia articles being acceptable only from a feminist research point of view, when family researchers around the world have different results, their studies are exceeding the feminist studies in numbers (and keep on doing so) and certainly the most advanced countries regarding gender equality agree? Would you consider it to be according to Wikipedia's principles if creationist "scientists" were the only ones allowed to write Wikipedia articles about evolution and if an actual biologist tried to write an article, creationist people would attack that writer's person? How about trying to answer the questions instead of trying to blame me for defending Wikipedia's fundamental pillars? Do you remember them?[[13]]:

1) Wikipedia is an encyclopedia

2) Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view

3) Wikipedia is free content that anyone can use, edit, and distribute

4) Editors should treat each other with respect and civility

5) Wikipedia has no firm rules, Wikipedia has policies and guidelines

You both fail to answer why you want to go so far that you'd like me to be sanctioned, yet you have not been able to dispute the validity of ANY of the studies I have brought forth? Instead you give me a thinly veiled threat for defending a neutral point of view. What do you want to do? Gather people who agree with you and sanction me for bringing up studies that you don't like and that you can't dispute? I hope it's not because of ideological censorship, because Wikipedia is about OPEN and VALID information. What should I assume, since neither you, Jytdog nor anyone else is not answering the questions nor proving the studies wrong and still you want to sanction me for bringing them up? What pillar of Wikipedia is that supporting? I have already agreed to bring in outside observers to help us solve the issue on several occasions. So I kindly ask you to stop all threats and personal attacks and instead try to concentrate on the actual content. Dispute the content on factual basis. If you can't/won't, then it is a wiser option to follow the Wikipedia principles, regardless of whether scientific results fit in your personal world view or not. Prefixcaz (talk) 19:31, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

So you started out very argumentative, with a strong POV and no grounding in PAG, and now you are making the same arguments clothed in a veneer of PAG. This is what we call "wikilawyering", where a new user grabs a couple of lines from policy and uses them as prooftexts. No more to say here. Jytdog (talk) 19:44, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

note., changing a comment after someone has responded is bad form. Please read WP:TPG Jytdog (talk) 20:06, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I have no control over when you are answering. If I am correcting my last comment whilst you're writing yours, it's not bad form, it's an unfortunate coincidence. Again, you have a right to your opinion about me, I have no problems with that. Still, that's not the issue and as an argumentation it's not valid. Do you notice that you're still talking about my person and not the issue? The issue being, why in your opinion reliable scientific results, that are widely accepted in a big part of the democratic world, should NOT be shown in Wikipedia articles, that deal with the issue? How is it a neutral point of view, if the only acceptable results are the ones that reflect one side of the issue? A side that is a minority even in the scientific community. Loud, but still a minority. Would you care to explain how that supports the Wikipedia pillars? PS. Did you remove the warning you got from your personal pages? THAT is intentional and bad form. Prefixcaz (talk) 20:08, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Violence against men

in 2013 there was a discussion [14] to redirect Violence against men to Domestic violence against men. I would like to have a new discussion in 2015. I propose that Violence against men should be a separate article that includes other forms of violence and not just domestic. Violence against women is a stand alone article and it's not clear to me why Violence against men is limited to "domestic." For example, according to American Society of Criminology, violence is "directed primarily at other males," and "men were the victims in almost four out of five homicides." [15] I personally think this topic needs its own article. What do you think? USchick (talk) 22:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I am not opposed to a Violence against men article, as long as it does not become a WP:Redundant fork for domestic violence against men. The vast majority of domestic violence against men material should be in the Domestic violence against men article. The WP:AfD discussion that you linked to above is clear why the Violence against men article was redirected to the Domestic violence against men article (the new title) -- the vast majority of its sources were about domestic violence against men. Flyer22 (talk) 22:12, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Also, note the redundancy and WP:Original research arguments made in the WP:AfD discussion you linked to. With regard to women, the violence is often specifically because the people are women. With regard to violence against men, it is not so much the case that it is because the people are men. Flyer22 (talk) 22:19, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I agree that domestic violence needs to stay where it is. I'm not committed to creating an entire new article, only an outline. If people find it useful, they can fill it in, but considering the potential controversy, I want to make sure it won't be immediately deleted, so I'm asking to gauge interest. As far as violence specifically against men, there's been a lot of new discussion in recent years. USchick (talk) 22:24, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

The article would likely be redirected again; for example, in that WP:AfD you noted above, UseTheCommandLine stated, "Strong Delete with bias against recreation This has already been deleted twice. It reeks of a political agenda. The subject is so broad as to be meaningless. It is not a term of art in any extant body of scholarship. further, the points raised in the article, particularly those frequently cited by other keep-voters (cf. Violence against women) are all covered in other articles (such as Domestic violence, which largely avoids specifying genders)." Similarly, Zetrock argued, "Delete. Each of the issues brought up in this article would be better suited to the main articles on those subjects. For example, there is already a discussion of domestic violence against men in the domestic violence article. Combining subsections of various articles into a single article based on gender is not only odd, but reeks of a political agenda, and is therefore lacking in NPOV. Contributors should instead address these issues within the context of each article, e.g., sexual slavery, domestic violence, prison sentencing differences, etc."

But you can certainly try recreation of the article, especially since the majority of people in the WP:AfD felt that Wikipedia can have a valid article on this topic. As far as violence specifically against men, I know that there has been more research in recent years. But it still stands that violence against men is not usually because they are men. That they are men is usually inconsequential to the violence. Flyer22 (talk) 22:46, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

It would be helpful to see the article that was deleted. Is there a way to do that? USchick (talk) 23:02, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, ask a WP:Administrator to temporarily WP:Userfy that version for you. Flyer22 (talk) 23:05, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! USchick (talk) 23:06, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Actually, regarding the aforementioned WP:AfD discussion, instead of the previous WP:AfD discussions, you can see what the article looked like with this edit. Remember, the Violence against men article was moved to Domestic violence against men, and then "Violence against men" became a redirect to it. Flyer22 (talk) 23:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Perfect, thank you very much! USchick (talk) 23:28, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I'd be inclined to agree with Flyer22. Although I disagree with the notion that creating a page on Violence against men is necessarily politically motivated, I think the two quotes she uses above are pretty illustrative of the problem one would encounter in creating such a page - namely that it would need to detail violence against men which is specifically perpetrated against them because they are men, just as the violence against women article does. Violence against men is usually just 'equal opportunities' violence (to use a very simplistic example, look at war. The majority of victims of most wars are men, but obviously no one is going to argue that war can be classified as "violence against men"). Violence against women, on the other hand, is often gender motivated. Having said that, however, I do agree with USchick that violence against men redirecting to domestic violence against men is a little reductionist. However, I'm not sure what would be a more appropriate article to which to redirect it. Bertaut (talk) 03:28, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

See what you think. Meaningful discussion is most welcome. USchick (talk) 04:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Note: USchick's recreation of the article has been nominated for deletion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Violence against men (4th nomination). Flyer22 (talk) 22:59, 24 February 2015 (UTC)