Talk:Armenia

Europe?

Armenia is listed as a country in Europe, but according to modern definition, Armenia is entirely within Asia. --Vitzque (talk) 17:30, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

 Fixed - Thanks for pointing this out, Vitzque. Actually, there's nothing in the lead or body of the article claiming Armenia to be Europe, but there were two categories which were incorrect (Eastern Europe + Countries in Europe). I've removed the categories.

• If Armenia is truly not at all in Europe and is not bi-continental, then there is a whole lot more to change in WP than just this, in articles, in categories, in templates. Is there some fact conflict here? Are there reliable sources stating Armenia is entirely in Asia that can be used as justification for all changes--one way or another. Hmains (talk) 03:26, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

There's no argument against its being European by proxy (that's all in the body of the article), but I've yet to find any sources (even going back in history) that places it as being in Europe or considered European. Do you have sources to suggest that it is considered to be Europe? --Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:52, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

I only am pointing out that various items in WP show that Armenia is a bi-continental country, with part of it in the Continent of Europe (as defined somehow or another) as well as in the continent of Asia. I don't do research. Someone can try to figure this out so that WP can be made uniform in its treatment of Armenia in ALL its articles, categories, templates and so on. Hmains (talk) 02:52, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

• The following is found in content of this article: "Armenia is also a member of the Council of Europe, maintaining friendly relations with the European Union, especially with its member states such as France and Greece. A 2005 survey reported that 64% of Armenia's population would be in favor of joining the EU.[78] Several Armenian officials have also expressed the desire for their country to eventually become an EU member state,[79] some predicting that it will make an official bid for membership in a few years. In 2004 its forces joined KFOR, a NATO-led international force in Kosovo. It is also an observer member of the Eurasian Economic Community and the Non-Aligned Movement." This makes it appear that Armenia is part of an expanding Europe, regardless of continental definitions. Hmains (talk) 21:26, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm aware of this, Hmains. I know categories can be extremely problematic, but Armenia's affiliations with European bodies are, at this point in time, just that: affiliations. I also recognise that the concept of 'Europe' has been changing with the expansion of the EU, but whether Armenia will become an EU country (and be recognised as being 'Europe' as such) is WP:CRYSTAL until definitive, RS sources can be introduced. Putting the cart before the horses is OR. This would need to be discussed with other neutral editors. It would be appreciated if you would self revert re-adding the Countries in Europe category. Cheers! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:09, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

I have no interest in this one way or another--I was only pointing out what I found. And I only reverted the changes that I myself made, not the work of anyone else. Feel free to change things as you wish. Hmains (talk) 00:21, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

In all honesty, I don't have a position on the issue. I really only have this article on my watchlist as the result of POV edit warring on all ex-Soviet nation-states (which is the area I do most of my editing in). I simply responded to the observation. Cheers! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 02:14, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

What continent a country is in is a function of geography, not cultural or political affilitations. Armenia is not in Europe, just as New Zealand, the Falkland Islands, and Bermuda are not. For that matter, I find it amusing (perhaps Asians would not) that those who wish to argue that Armenia is in Europe seem to take offense at the idea that Armenia were in Asia. Xenophonix (talk) 17:25, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

This issue has been discussed at length in the past (see the archive about that). Consensus was that Armenia lies geographically in Asia, but it can be defined culturally and politically as belonging to Europe. Alex2006 (talk) 17:31, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Your consensus is not correct as the South Caucasus is realistically in Eastern Europe according to many sources. Please do not provide false information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MELB1110 (talk • contribs) 03:42, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

It Is not located just in Western Asia, this is not accurate and must be changed immediately, it is a breach of impartiality and there is only 2 references provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MELB1110 (talk • contribs) 03:47, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Consensus on Wikipedia is that Armenia lies geographically in Western Asia, altough in many respects it is a fully European country. People are welcome to bring reliable scientific sources (i.e Royal Geographical Society, not BBC, RAI, and so on) that show geographical definitions of Europe from which it derives another continental location of Armenia. Alex2006 (talk) 08:41, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't know what nations "MELB1110" thinks modern-day Armenia borders and historically is mostly intertwined with, but its certainly not Great Britain or Germany if that's what you're thinking (as you're trying for some odd reason to push it towards Europe). Its not even partially transcontinental unlike Georgia, Azerbaijan and Turkey. Armenians and Armenia are historically and culturally (save for being Christians) extremely much related to its neighbouring Middle Eastern nations, moreso than any other nations.

Heck, their ethnogenesis lies completely in Eastern Anatolia (from which they got sadly exterminated in the early 20th century)

What on earth exactly is European about Armenia btw? Except that they're Christian? I'm trying to look at it at a socio-historical PoV as well, as that seems the single main issue and reason regarding the fact that MELB1110 brought, this here and wanted to change it.

- LouisAragon (talk) 09:12, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Please don't go off topic. Here we are not discussing whether Armenia can be considered european culturally, in religion or in football. Here we are dealing with a purely geographical concept. consensus here is that geographically Armenia lies fully in Western Asia. The source brought by MELB1110 is not valid, since does not give an alternative definition of the european continent which includes Armenia in Europe, but take the Armenian state, with its political boundaries, and define it as european. Alex2006 (talk) 09:19, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Alex2006, I fully agree with you, just I believe that it is the main concern of MELB1110. ;) Anyway, I'm curious to see more responses from him too. - LouisAragon (talk) 09:33, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't think that there is much to discuss here. There is a refusal to discuss an established consensus, POV pushing, a clear refusal to get the point and the attempt to play dumb other users. Alex2006 (talk) 09:44, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Hey guys, Ok let me get this straight LouisAragon, it seems you have a thing of pushing us as Asian country. Most Armenians would consider themselves NOT Asian and NOT Middle-eastern, we historically originated in the Caucasus and thus the Caucasus is in Europe, if you would like to confirm that, read a few books on Armenians.

I am Armenian as background, so Iam sure most fellow users will understand.

1) To be a member of the COUNCIL OF EUROPE; A COUNTRY MUST BE LOCATED GEOGRAPHICALLY IN EUROPE, ARMENIA IS A MEMBER. 2) WORLDATLAS.COM IS A RELIABLE EDUCATIONAL SOURCE.

Also, Armenians don't look Asian at all and are unrelated to their neighbours what so ever, we are an individual ethnic group. closest related are the Georgians and in other ways Russians. So my source was accurate I don't know why you are degrading us by placing us purely in Asia,

I personally find it offensive. I am sure most people will agree with me.

I will soon change it back to the original format, I will place the same worldatlas.com source, located at the crossroads.

I am sure most users will agree that Armenia can be considered part of Europe via the Caucasus region. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MELB1110 (talk • contribs) 07:38, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

As written above, there is no consensus for this change, and I am fearing that this is becoming a case of WP:NOTGETTINGIT. I will repeat it for a last time: the given source (whose reliability is altogether doubtful) shows a political map of Europe. I repeat that what is needed is a geographical map - published by an institution reliable in physical geography matter - showing physical (mountains, rivers, seas, etc.) borders of the continent defined in such a way that Armenia lies within them. Alex2006 (talk) 08:21, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

MELB1110, neither the geographical origin of Armenians (the European origins of most Australians doesn't mean that Australia is in Europe) nor that they "don't look Asian" whatever that means (how many of these Russians from the Asian city of Vladivostok "look Asian") has any bearing on this. DeCausa (talk) 09:34, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

I am going to have to include it until I find an extra source. In addition, it is a map based on geography, as the Worldatlas.com defines it. The Political and Economic trends are an inclusion.

Population

Whats the official population of Armenia? I keep hearing Armenians claiming its under 1.5 million and the government is lying, yet they provide no source. WTF is going on with the population, demographic trends, and emigration in Armenia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Melting Pot of Friendship (talk • contribs) 21:24, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Simple Wikipedia source: The World Factbook. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:57, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2014

Armenia has also been very successful in chess, winning the World Champion in 2011 and the World Chess Olympiad on three occasions. 70.65.124.210 (talk) 04:55, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Done Stickee (talk) 05:41, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2014

Typo needs to be corrected under CUISINE

Armenian cuisine is as ancient as the history of Armenia, a combination of different tastes and aromas. The food often has quite a distinct smell. Closely related to eastern and Mediterranean cuisine, various spices, vegetables, fish, and fruits combine to present unique dishes. The main characteristics of Armenian cuisine are a reliance on the quality of the ingredients rather than heavily spicing food, the use of herbs, the use of wheat in a variety of forms, of legumes, nuts, and fruit (as a main ingredient as well aa to sour food), and the stuffing of a wide variety of leaves.

Recommend change aa to as.

 Done Alex2006 (talk) 14:27, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

lol

location graphic

Looks to me that the square of the location graphic is wrong. It's pointing to an area south of Armenia.

The Letter J (talk) 17:14, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

“After the death of Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin took the reins of power and began an era of renewed fear and terror for Armenians.[57] Armenia was not the scene of any battles in World War II. An estimated 500,000 Armenians (nearly a third of the population) served in the military during the war, and 175,000 died.[58] Fears decreased when Stalin died in 1953 ...“

Such inappropriate subjective emotional statements may not be a part of encyclopedic article. They FEARED. 'til 53, as Stalin dies, fears subsided. Are you sure they feared? No explanation in the article, why Armenians should have feared Stalin. Do english speakers take it just like that? All Armenians apparently just feared because they just feared. Well... From telling of old men and women from former Soviet Union actually none feared Stalin, just Nazi-Germany. And under rule of Stalin soviet people drove this horror off. Just above “Armenians enjoyed a period of relative stability under Soviet rule. They received medicine, food, and other provisions from Moscow, ..“ apparently (well I doubt that all this was made in Moscow, it would be correct to say - they received it from Soviet Union) So, why they have to fear Stalin?

Is it again a sample of manipulative implanting into ones subconsciousness of the aversion to Stalin, Soviet Union, communism and anticapitalism? I propose to revise this part of article and throw out all subjective implants.--84.57.89.92 (talk) 14:22, 19 May 2015 (UTC)