Talk:Lokma

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Size

Size? --Menchi (Talk)â 03:44, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

you choose the size. not smaller than 4-5 cm. Optim 04:02, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Origin

I am pretty sure that this is a Turkish sweet (although it may well be available in Greece as well). Can anyone confirm this?

As with many aspects of shared Greek/Turkish culture, it depends on who you ask. It seems to have already been common in both Greek and Turkish communities under the Ottomans, so people argue about which community invented it, or whether it already existed in Byzantine times, or whether it was borrowed from the Arabs instead, etc., etc. --Delirium 06:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Oxford Companion to Food discusses lokma/loukouma in its jalebi article. They are also known in Iran as zulabiya and are given to poor people at Ramadan (a custom that also exists in Turkey for Lokma -- is there anything parallel in Greece? I don't know). The name lokma itself, as documented in the article, is Arabic, and the OCF reports that "some believe that the somewhat similar [to jalebi] Arabic luqmat el qadi... may be the original version". The name jalebi also apparently ultimately comes from Arabic zalabiya, but my Arabic dictionary lists zalaabiyah as just 'a kind of doughnut' and doesn't refer it to an Arabic root. This, then, is one of those foods found all the way from the Balkans to India (documented in 1450) via Anatolia, the Levant, the Fertile Crescent (al-Baghdadi describes them in the 13th century), and Iran. As a guess, I'd think its origins are probably somewhere in the central area (Levant or Persia), but I don't have any sources supporting that. Then there are sfingi and zeppole.... --Macrakis 14:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

--I don't know who does the thinking or research for these kinds of articles but obviously you need to up your game. These pastries were served as a prize for ancient Olympians, the rough translation is honey tokens, which is where the English born Cypriots and Greek derived the name honey balls . Considering the ancient origin, Turks were not around yet and were still Mongols. The Origin is clearly from ancient Greece. You can research Callimachus, a Greek poet who details this in some text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.8.224.245 (talk) 17:43, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This may be true but needs a reliable source -- can you cite the passage in Callimachus and ideally a secondary source confirming the interpretation? What name did he use? Surely not "loukoumades". And what Greek name means "honey balls"? Are you perhaps conflating loukoumades with melomakarona? (though "makarona" doesn't mean balls, either). --Macrakis (talk) 19:31, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have cited the relevant passage from Callimachus. Frankly, I find the cake he mentions less-promising as a candidate than enkris, for which I have also added quotations and references, but to avoid WP:No Original Research, I have avoided making any claims to that effect, because I can't find it stated in any secondary sources. Jpbrenna (talk) 19:40, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sfingi and zeppole

Resolved

The redirect from sfinges comes here. Shouldn't go to zeppole? I don't know how to change it, or I would. 76.215.2.140 23:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to a quick google search I would say you are correct. I'll fix the redirect. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 13:54, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Issues

This page is sort of all over the place. The reader is bombarded with tons of different spellings and other language equivalents so it is hard to distinguish what they are. I think the article should be "Loukoumades" since that is the most common English name. Before I edited it a little, it had a definite Turkish pov, that hopefully I made more neutral. What do people think? Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 20:24, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I seriously disagree with the title of the article. Although it is good that you removed the Turkish bias while reediting it, the title now shows Greek bias. We have to find a solution for that, and I propose a return to "Lokma". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.104.147.59 (talk) 12:21, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There cannot be a return to "Lokma" because the page was never named that. It was originally "Loukoumas" the singular of "Loukoumades", but moved to "Loukoumades" since that is the most common name in English, not a Greek bias. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 12:25, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well a "kabob" is more common in English than a Kebab as well, I do not think that constitutes a valid pretext. --Emir Ali Enç (talk) 12:28, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, general Wikipedia policy is to use the most common English name, but that is hard to determine. Sometimes it is possible to use Google or Google Books to help with things like this, but that's always a delicate exercise. I really don't care what the article is called.... The "pox on both your houses" solution is to merge with jalebi, and normally I would advocate mergers like this -- indeed the Oxford Companion to Food puts them all under jalebi -- but I think the South Asian jalebi is too different from the Ottoman-world lokma/loukouma/zalabiya/etc. --macrakis (talk) 04:23, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I gotta agree with that one. According to my researches Jalebi is the ancestor behind all of them... Have you heard about the dessert in Turkey and Syria named "Zülbiye" (Zelbiyyé) may be realso related to Zelabia (all of them fried) in the Maghreb... ARGH... NAMES!! :D --Emir Ali Enç (talk) 14:16, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Transliteration

I moved the page to Lukumades but this was undone (as some other pages) by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dr.K. .

Even in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Greek it states the following. Loukoumades is not the right way to write it, it just reinforces the wrong transliteration and spelling and also pronounciation (people pronounce it always wrong with the form Loukoumades (because this is not a scientific article, the form Lukumades should be used instead of the wrong form Loukoumades).

I feel bad because Dr. K doesn't understand this, even though he should.GreekAlex (talk) 07:23, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Biblical Reference

The book of Numbers is written in Biblical Hebrew, not Modern Greek. The reference here is to manna, not fried dough.