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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 121.223.27.63 (talk) at 15:31, 7 June 2017 (→‎Reverting). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Turks of Western Thrace

General Distribution of Population in Western Thrace (1912-1920)
Census/Estimate Muslims Pomaks Bulgarians Greeks Others Total
1912 estimate 120,000 - 40,000 60,000 4,000 224,000
1919 Bulgarian 79,539 17,369 87,941 28,647 10,922 224,418
1919 Bulgarian 77,726 20,309 81,457 32,553 8,435 220,480
1920 French 74,730 11,848 54,092 56,114 7,906 204,690
1920 Greek 93,273 - 25,677 74,416 6,038 201,404


During Ottoman rule before 1912, Greeks constituted a minority in the region of Western Thrace.[1] After the Balkan Wars and World War I the demography of the region was changed. While groups such as the Turks and Bulgarians decreased, the Greek population increased by the resettlement of ten thousands of Greek refugees from other areas of the Ottoman Empire, after the flight of the Greek refugees from Asia Minor, as a result of the Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922) and the subsequent population exchange between Greece and Turkey.[2] Of all Greek Asia Minor refugees (578,824 individuals), 31% of them were resettled in Western Thrace.[3] The Greek government's reason to settle the refugees in this region was to strengthen the Greek presence in the newly acquired provinces and the homogenization of the population.[3] The Greek government especially resettled the refugees in Komotini, Xanthi and Sapes regions where the majority of Muslim Turks lived.[3]

General Distribution of Population in Western Thrace in 1923, presented by the Greek delegation in Laussane (after the relocation of Asia Minor refugees)[3]
Districts Total Total Greeks Local Greeks Relocated Greek refugees Turks Bulgarians Jews Armenians
Komotini 104,108 45,516 11,386 33,770 50,081 6,609 1,112 1,183
Alexandroupolis 38,553 26,856 9,228 17,518 2,705 9,102 -
Soufli 32,299 25,758 11,517 14,211 5,454 1,117 - -
Xanthi 64,744 36,859 18,249 18,613 27,882 - -
Didymoteicho 34,621 31,408 21,759 9,649 3,213 - - -
Orestiada 39,386 33,764 22,087 11,677 6,072 - - -
Total 314,235 199,664 (63,5%) 94,226 (30,0%) 105,438 (33,6%) 95,407 (30,4%) 16,828 (5,4%) 1,112 (0,4%) 1,183 (0,4%)

References

  1. ^ Huseyinoglu, Ali (2012). "The Development of Minority Education at the South-easternmost Corner of the EU: The Case of Muslim Turks in Western Thrace, Greece" (PDF). University of Sussex. pp. 121–122. Retrieved 2 May 2013.
  2. ^ Pentzopoulos, Dimitri (2002). The Balkan exchange of minorities and its impact on Greece ([2. impr.]. ed.). London: Hurst. p. 11. ISBN 9781850657026. led directly to the flight of the Greek refugges from Asia Minor, the compulsory exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey
  3. ^ a b c d Huseyinoglu, Ali (2012). "The Development of Minority Education at the South-easte rnmost Corner of the EU: The Case of Muslim Turks in Western Thrace, Greece" (PDF). University of Sussex. p. 123. Retrieved 2 May 2013.

"strategically located", redux

About this [1] edit: Personally, I am still very far from convinced the verbiage about "strategically located at the crossroads" should be there in the first place. But if we must have it, can we please at least not start trying to bolster it up with that ugliest of bad wiki-habits, overciting? Any phrase inside a sentence that has more than two footnotes in a row is always a certain giveaway there have been POV warriors at work somehow.

If this phrase means something concrete and tangible, then this (seemingly) very simple statement of fact ought to be able to stand even without footnotes, as its truth ought to be self-evident. The problem, as I see it, is just this: it's not clear at all what it is supposed to mean, and this vagueness is what gives it that apparent "peacock" quality that many readers (me included) have felt to be there. Seriously, a question to those who are in favour of inclusion: what exactly does the phrase "strategically located at the crossroads of Europe, Asia and Africa" actually mean, to you? And, if you can explain what it means: do you really think the point is important enough that it must stand right at the beginning of that lead paragraph? Please note that all these questions are quite independent of whether we can find "reliable sources" that have said something like it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:54, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please, spare us the cheap theatrics. I have seen this method at work before: Step 1. Use a loud edit-summary accusing an editor by name of something fictitious: sorry, Dr.K., but can we please not start this kind of horrible over-citing?, so as to elevate your own editing skills. Step 2. Open up a discussion section where you compound the assault initiated by the edit-summary by accusing the target editor, or at least insinuating, that he is a "POV-warrior". Sorry, but I won't play this game. But first, let me disabuse you of these fallacies. First, I am fully cognisant of the fact that at the lead one does not add citations, because they should already be at the body of the article. Second, despite your exaggerations, two (2) references do not make for your horribly overinflated description in your edit-summary of horrible over-citing. Third, I only added these citations to help that IP who kept reverting understand that the term "strategic" is supported by RS. Sometimes, these IP editors don't understand the nuances of WP:LEAD, so I tried to help that guy along. Finally, your comment Please note that all these questions are quite independent of whether we can find "reliable sources" that have said something like it. is wrong. We go by what RS call the geographic location of Greece. It is not up to us to invent terms. If books and other RS call Greece's position "strategic", then that's where the buck stops. Any other approach as your comment If this phrase means something concrete and tangible, then this (seemingly) very simple statement of fact ought to be able to stand even without footnotes, as its truth ought to be self-evident. suggests is WP:OR. We are not after WP:TRUTH here. We are after WP:RS and WP:V. But I think you knew this all along. Dr. K. 17:22, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. Please don't use loud edit-summaries where, as you know, the target editor cannot respond. This is not a fair way to edit. Dr. K. 17:33, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reverting

My edits were reverted despite me giving a source. This is puffery. I can't even talk to the person who reverted changes.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.223.27.63 (talk • contribs)

First, you deleted sourced information about the very high Human Development Index of Greece. This is considered blanking and it is vandalism. Second, unemployment data does not belong at the WP:LEAD of a country article. This article is about the country, not its unemployment rate which can change and is ephemeral compared to the time-scale of the country facts. See also WP:RECENTISM and WP:NOTNEWS. Dr. K. 15:09, 7 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Very well, but from the description in the lead, Greece seems to be an ideal country and it is not. Plus the Greek crisis isnt even mentioned in the history part in the lead and it is an important aspect of 21st century Greece

We had this discussion before. It is somewhere in the archives. As far as crisis, other countries in the eurozone had it too. Spain for instance, had the 2008–16 Spanish financial crisis also known as the "Great Spanish Depression", but there is nothing in the lead of Spain. So did Portugal, Italy etc. I hope you get the idea. Dr. K. 15:24, 7 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I do, I just try to avoid the PUFFERY and actually highlight some limitations in a nation so it is balanced instead of "very high this and very high that". It should be more modest like in Germany article.

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