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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Flyer22 Frozen (talk | contribs) at 23:12, 16 October 2017 (→Removal of the word Agender). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2017

ADD a new section talking specifically about how no matter how many drugs are taken that each cell in the body will remain either XX or XY chromosomes and therefore a "transformation of sex" is actually impossible. While changing the physical apearence these people are not doing much to help their condition and are ending up hurting themselves in the "long run" as the hormones they are putting into their bodies can be extremely harmful as each sex is designed to produce a certain amount of that hormone. Carternelson01 (talk) 20:56, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Tone of paragraph doesn't conform to WP:NPOV. Will need sources to support the claim that it "can be extremely harmful" as a recurring thing and not just anomalies. — IVORK Discuss 21:58, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2017

Please change the Scientific studies of transexuality sextion to something more accurate. There are thousands more studies than are currently being shown on the page but first I want to start with the studies on the page. It is quite obvious that the person writing about the studies has some form of bias towards the subject as they keep leaving out crucial detail that would be helpful for people like me who are trying to research the subject. For example, the writer states "The failure of an attempt to raise David Reimer from infancy through adolescence as a girl after his genitals were accidentally mutilated is cited as disproving the theory that gender identity is determined by parenting." This is absolutely false. This study not only disproved that one can bring up a child as the opposite sex but also that transgenderism, or gender dysphoria, is a physical choice and not a state of mental deficiency, or, if you prefer to not use that term, which I'm not sure why you wouldn't, "mental adjustment".

There is also no mention of gender dysphoria in the Scientific studies of transexuality section, a mental condition which is not only accepted by the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) but worldwide by researchers. As popular as the transgender page is, you would think there would be some mention of a scientifically proven mental illness linked to transgender people. Alas, I was dissapointed. I will get to the point as this is starting to sound more like a review than a request.

What I am asking for: a more accurate representation of scientific studies, including a section on gender dysphoria in both children and onwards which is void of the obvious biases seen in this poorly written text I have seen so far. Thank you. Overall I rate 2/10 for this page.

PLEASE I BEG YOU FOR MORE RESEARCH! ALL THE OTHER SECTIONS ARE MASSIVE AND THE RESEARCH SECTIONS ARE THIS LONG: -----

I only really have a problem with the Scientific studies of transexuality section. Don't think I'm criticising everything. everything else is okay...sort of. But I'll bug you about that another time! 94.7.136.68 (talk) 21:34, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —MRD2014 ( T / C ) 22:42, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2017

Between the first and second sentences, add the following sentence: Although the word "gender" is in the word transgender, this is not as to mean a transgendered person as having a special gender outside of male and female.

Do this because a lot of people make this mistake and I want this subject to be understood as I am transgender mmyself. 111JoeI111 (talk) 00:50, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

where's the source for this? Edaham (talk) 01:14, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —MRD2014 02:03, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed update to Media Representation

Hello, I'm impressed with the wide range and value of the information on this page. I found the Media Representation section to be sparse though. I propose adding the following to the end of the section to provide more details about the increase in representation and its effects on viewers:

"However, in 2014, the United States reached a "transgender tipping point", according to Time Magazine (Steinmetz, 2014, para. 1). At this time, the media visibility of transgender people reached a level higher than seen before. Since then, the number of transgender portrayals across TV platforms has stayed elevated (Scheller & Love, 2016), which may influence viewers broadly. Research has found that viewing multiple transgender TV characters and stories improves viewers' attitudes toward transgender people and related policies (Gillig et al., 2017)."

The citations used are:

Steinmetz, K. (2015, August 17). Why transgender people are being murdered at a historic rate. Time. Retrieved from http://time.com/ 3999348/transgender-murders-2015/.

Scheller, A., & Love, C. (2016). Transgender people are more visible than ever, but it’s still legal to discriminate against them in most states. Huffington Post. Retrieved from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ 2015/06/03/transgender-discrimination-laws_n_7502266.html.

Gillig, T. K., Rosenthal, E. L., Murphy, S. T., & Folb, K. L. (2017). More than a media moment: The influence of televised storylines on viewers’ attitudes toward transgender people and policies. Sex Roles, 1-13.

I hope this helps bolster this important section that is very brief right now. Thank you. Be the change scholar (talk) 15:29, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Be the change scholar: First, welcome to Wikipedia!
You're right, that section is rather sparse. The idea behind your proposed addition looks reasonable, and I think it can be used to beef up that section. If that whole paragraph is a quotation, we probably don't want to add it in directly like that, but summarize it in your own words. Also, since topics related to transgender issues can be controversial, it's always good to have a couple of extra references along the same lines, or that provide supplementary information that bolsters the content you wish to add.
You mentioned three references, which is great, but it's not clear how they are related to the content you posted. Do you know how to create footnotes?[1] Please have a look at the tutorial on footnotes, and the policies and guidelines on citations, verifiability, and reliable sources. With that in mind, add a reply below this one, with the content you wish to add to the section with some embedded footnotes included, and we can discuss it further. (Please indent your reply properly using leading colons; see WP:INDENT for details. Don't forget to sign each reply with four tildes (~~~~), as you did above. You can separate your proposed content from your commentary, by including the proposed article content within blockquote tags, like this: <blockquote>Your proposed article content here</blockquote>, and it will set it off nicely for you.)
This is a good start, but a word of advice: as a brand new user, controversial areas like trans* issues can be a difficult area in which to learn the ropes around here. You might want to try a less controversial area to start with. However, since you have done exactly the right thing so far by coming to the talk page first, we could try it here to see how it goes. If it works out, fine; but if you find your additions getting reverted immediately, or changed to unrecognizability, please don't be discouraged; just try another area for a while.
Having said that, if you wish to continue here, please follow the suggestions I made above about citations, and let's see if we can move this section forward, as you're right that it needs improvement. Again, welcome to Wikipedia. Mathglot (talk) 01:44, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]


@Mathglot: Thank you for the super-helpful feedback! I can see editing here takes some learning, but this is fun. I've incorporated the three references below with tags and removed the prior in-text citations. If I'm understanding correctly, the reference list should appear at the end where you've added the reflist-talk tag. I also added a second reference to the part about media representation staying elevated (GLAAD). For the first citation, this reference is included just to show that Time used the term "transgender tipping point." Does this call for a second supporting source? For the last sentence about TV viewer attitudes, these findings are in one study (there's a lack of published research about the effects of trans TV portrayals). Here is is the proposed content:

However, in 2014, the United States reached a "transgender tipping point", according to Time Magazine.[2]. At this time, the media visibility of transgender people reached a level higher than seen before. Since then, the number of transgender portrayals across TV platforms has stayed elevated[3] [4], which may influence viewers broadly. Research has found that viewing multiple transgender TV characters and stories improves viewers' attitudes toward transgender people and related policies.[5]

I hope I got these tags right. Thanks for your patience and the warm welcome! Be the change scholar (talk) 02:40, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Be the change scholar: First, well done! I think you're going to be a good editor. (I don't know why the blocknoteblockquote didn't work right; I'll see if I can fix that later.) It's usual to set off the title in some way, usually by quoting it or italicizing it (two single-quotes will italicize: ''this'' generates this) or both.
Since you seem to learn fast, may I throw one more thing at you? Rather than just have the reference in free text of your own devising, which means everybody's references can look different, you can take advantage of templates (tutorial) to standardize and simplify creating a good-looking reference, that has all the information needed to cite the source. There are a series of citation templates including {{citation}}, {{cite book}}, {{cite journal}}, {{cite web}} and others to help you with this. All four of your citations could be done using {{cite web}}.
So, can I ask you to reply one more time, changing all your previous citations to use {{cite web}} instead? Here's an empty template you can copy/paste if you want; you can delete any parameters you don't need (or just leave them there, blank) and you can find dozens more params at Template:cite web, if you need more:
{{cite web |title= |last1= |first1= |url= |date= |website= |publisher= |accessdate= |archiveurl= |archivedate=}}
No need to fill in the "archive" params for now; "accessdate" is today's date (UTC; so tomorrow, if you live in North America); no need to quote or italicize the title, the template will do the right thing. Here's what the first one should look like:
<ref>{{cite web |title=Why transgender people are being murdered at a historic rate |last1=Steinmetz |first1=K. |url=http://time.com/3999348/transgender-murders-2015/ |date=August 17, 2015 |website=Time |publisher= |accessdate=August 13, 2017 |archiveurl= |archivedate=}}</ref>
The ref can butt right up against the text it follows (and after punctuation, like period or comma) and if you have two refs together, then no blank or anything else between them. Wanna give it a try?
(This will duplicate your references in the boxed References section below, but don't worry about that for now. It may even help, as you can see how the citation template-generated references compare with the earlier ones.) Mathglot (talk) 03:38, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, for that last source that has more than one author, use this: ... |last1= |first1= |last2= |first2= |last3= |first3= ... - Got it? (Also, it's <blockquote> ... </blockquote>; I had it spelled wrong before, which is why it wasn't working. Sorry! You can see now how it's set off your content now, above. Mathglot (talk) 04:50, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]


@Mathglot: sure thing! Edits below. Note, I removed one of the citations from the second cited portion because the newer citation I had added there made it basically irrelevant, I realized. The second citation is stronger. Does the Time citation require a publisher? I noticed that was blank, and I typically wouldn't include one here. Same for the journal article (would just do this for a book), but I added it just in case.
<blockquote>However, in 2014, the United States reached a "transgender tipping point", according to Time Magazine.<ref>{{cite web |title=Why transgender people are being murdered at a historic rate |last1=Steinmetz |first1=K. |url=http://time.com/3999348/transgender-murders-2015/ |date=August 17, 2015 |website=Time |publisher= |accessdate=August 13, 2017 |archiveurl= |archivedate=}}</ref> At this time, the media visibility of transgender people reached a level higher than seen before. Since then, the number of transgender portrayals across TV platforms has stayed elevated <ref>{{cite web |title=GLAAD's 'Where We Are on TV' report finds progress in LGBTQ representation on TV, but much work still to be done |last1=Townsend |first1=M.|url=https://www.glaad.org/blog/glaads-where-we-are-tv-report-finds-progress-lgbtq-representation-tv-much-work-still-be-done |date=November 3, 2016 |website=GLAAD |accessdate=August 13, 2017 |archiveurl= |archivedate=}}</ref>, which may influence viewers broadly. Research has found that viewing multiple transgender TV characters and stories improves viewers' attitudes toward transgender people and related policies.<ref>{{cite web |title=More than a media moment: The influence of televised storylines on viewers’ attitudes toward transgender people and policies |last1=Gillig |first1=T.K. |last2=Rosenthal |first2=E.L. |last3=Murphy |first3=S.T. |last4=Folb |first4=K.L. |url=https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-017-0816-1?wt_mc=Internal.Event.1.SEM.ArticleAuthorOnlineFirst |date=2017 |website=Sex Roles |publisher=Springer |accessdate=August 13, 2017 |archiveurl= |archivedate=}}</ref></blockquote>
I believe I caught everything you requested, but please let me know if I missed anything! Be the change scholar (talk) 16:11, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Be the change scholar: Just reposting your last entry, without the <nowiki> tags, so it renders as content, and the footnotes get propagated into the box, so we can evaluate it:

However, in 2014, the United States reached a "transgender tipping point", according to Time Magazine.[6] At this time, the media visibility of transgender people reached a level higher than seen before. Since then, the number of transgender portrayals across TV platforms has stayed elevated [7], which may influence viewers broadly. Research has found that viewing multiple transgender TV characters and stories improves viewers' attitudes toward transgender people and related policies.[8]

I think I'd take out "which may influence viewers broadly" which I'm not sure adds anything, and also uses the weasel word "may" without a source that is equally weaselly about it. Other than that, this looks good to me at first glance, but I'll want to check the refs and make sure they support the content. Let's have a think about it for a day or two, and see if anyone else wants to weigh in on this. If there's no objection from anyone, and you are happy with it, we'll add it to the article soon. Mathglot (talk) 00:00, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Foonote 6 does not support the content about "transgender tipping point". I know that there was a Time article that used this phrase, because I remember seeing it on the cover. But I don't see the term "transgender tipping point" anywhere in this article. Can you either add the Time "Tipping point" article, or another article that talks about Time's article? Mathglot (talk) 00:15, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mathglot: All sounds good to me. I removed the "may influence" phrase and updated the Time/Steinmetz citation, plus added a second that references the trans tipping point. Not sure how I grabbed the wrong citation, but I suppose that's a good lesson for being an editor: Check, check, and check again!

However, in 2014, the United States reached a "transgender tipping point", according to Time Magazine.[9][10] At this time, the media visibility of transgender people reached a level higher than seen before. Since then, the number of transgender portrayals across TV platforms has stayed elevated.[11] Research has found that viewing multiple transgender TV characters and stories improves viewers' attitudes toward transgender people and related policies.[12]

Be the change scholar (talk) 23:55, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

With one exception, I think it's fine, now. The exception is that the Time ref has a paywall, that is to say, it requires a subscription to see the content (although you can see the headline). Please look up the param |url-access=subscription at Template:Cite web. Since this is a very minor change, I wouldn't bother posting a new version of it at this point. Let's just wait a couple of days and see if there are other comments, and if not, we can add this to the article. You did a great job on this.
P.S. I will be out for a week eclipse-chasing, so if I don't respond, you can ask someone else to do it, or just wait till I get back. Mathglot (talk) 10:19, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Mathglot (talk) 10:11, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Just add the tags <ref> ... </ref> and place your footnote between them. See WP:CITE and H:FOOT for instructions. (This is more of a note than a reference, because a reference would quote a book, journal article or website, but I just wanted to show you how the <ref> tag works.)
  2. ^ Steinmetz, K. (2015, August 17). Why transgender people are being murdered at a historic rate. Time. Retrieved from http://time.com/3999348/transgender-murders-2015/
  3. ^ Scheller, A., & Love, C. (2016). Transgender people are more visible than ever, but it’s still legal to discriminate against them in most states. Huffington Post. Retrieved from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ 2015/06/03/transgender-discrimination-laws_n_7502266.html
  4. ^ Townsend, M. (2016, November 3). GLAAD's 'Where We Are on TV' report finds progress in LGBTQ representation on TV, but much work still to be done. GLAAD. Retrieved from: https://www.glaad.org/blog/glaads-where-we-are-tv-report-finds-progress-lgbtq-representation-tv-much-work-still-be-done
  5. ^ Gillig, T. K., Rosenthal, E. L., Murphy, S. T., & Folb, K. L. (2017). More than a media moment: The influence of televised storylines on viewers’ attitudes toward transgender people and policies. Sex Roles, 1-13. Retrieved from: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-017-0816-1?wt_mc=Internal.Event.1.SEM.ArticleAuthorOnlineFirst
  6. ^ Steinmetz, K. (August 17, 2015). "Why transgender people are being murdered at a historic rate". Time. Retrieved August 13, 2017.
  7. ^ Townsend, M. (November 3, 2016). "GLAAD's 'Where We Are on TV' report finds progress in LGBTQ representation on TV, but much work still to be done". GLAAD. Retrieved August 13, 2017.
  8. ^ Gillig, T.K.; Rosenthal, E.L.; Murphy, S.T.; Folb, K.L. (2017). "More than a media moment: The influence of televised storylines on viewers' attitudes toward transgender people and policies". Sex Roles. Springer. Retrieved August 13, 2017.
  9. ^ Steinmetz, K. (May 28, 2014). "The transgender tipping point". Time. Retrieved August 13, 2017.
  10. ^ Snow, N. (May 8, 2015). "Laverne Cox: 'Time' magazine's 'transgender tipping point' cover girl". Huffington Post. Retrieved August 13, 2017.
  11. ^ Townsend, M. (November 3, 2016). "GLAAD's 'Where We Are on TV' report finds progress in LGBTQ representation on TV, but much work still to be done". GLAAD. Retrieved August 13, 2017.
  12. ^ Gillig, T.K.; Rosenthal, E.L.; Murphy, S.T.; Folb, K.L. (2017). "More than a media moment: The influence of televised storylines on viewers' attitudes toward transgender people and policies". Sex Roles. Springer. Retrieved August 13, 2017.

Removal of the word Agender

I'd like to request the removal of the term 'Agenda' from the Transgender page.

Agender is the experience of never experiencing/ experiencing no gender, so it cannot be in the same category as people who do experience gender. These are fundamentally different experiences. The following reference puts Agender under the 'Genderqueer umbrella' and acknowledges that discomfort in being called Transgender exists. I have identified as Agender for 3 years now, and for the first time have felt like I have an identity. I do not identify as Transgender at all, and I find it very upsetting to be bundled under the Trans-umbrella. If the definition of trans is: Someone who identifies as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth then technically, I still do not see how someone who experiences no gender can fall under this banner.

Guidelines for psychological practice with transgender and gender nonconforming people. American Psychological Association - American Psychologist, 2015 - 204.14.132.173

Thanks Birdword (talk) 08:49, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Birdword. "Agender" is included because it falls under the broad definition of transgender that includes all non-binary/genderqueer people. The article is clear that transgender is used as an umbrella term. This doesn't mean that everyone agrees with the wide application. Many don't agree with cross-dressers being called transgender, for example. Also, even though many non-binary people state that they have no gender, their identification of having no gender is still termed a gender identity. I don't see that the source you linked to states that agender people shouldn't be included in the transgender umbrella. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:06, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Transgender&oldid=805680198"